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Signs and Portents


LynnS

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Prophecies seem to be filled with signs and portents:. 

 
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a sign or warning that something, especially something momentous or calamitous, is likely to happen.
"they believed that wild birds in the house were portents of death" · 
synonyms:
omen · sign · indication · presage · warning · forewarning · harbinger · augury · 
  • future significance.
    "an omen of grave portent for the tribe"

 

 

There are a number of them we can discuss. To start,  Mirri Maaz Duur's answer to Dany's question:

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A Game of Thrones - Daenerys IX

"When will he be as he was?" Dany demanded.

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur. "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."

So on the surface,  it seems pretty clear that the answer is never.   But is it?  Signs and portents seem to be prefaced with "when" something happens.  But do we know what the signs look like if we saw one?  Or who would see it?

When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east.  Tyrion sees this sign:

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A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion VIII

Finally he gave it up and made his way up top for a breath of night air. The Selaesori Qhoran had furled her big striped sail for the night, and her decks were all but deserted. One of the mates was on the sterncastle, and amidships Moqorro sat by his brazier, where a few small flames still danced amongst the embers.

Only the brightest stars were visible, all to the west. A dull red glow lit the sky to the northeast, the color of a blood bruise. Tyrion had never seen a bigger moon. Monstrous, swollen, it looked as if it had swallowed the sun and woken with a fever. Its twin, floating on the sea beyond the ship, shimmered red with every wave. "What hour is this?" he asked Moqorro. "That cannot be sunrise unless the east has moved. Why is the sky red?"

Not the sun, but the moon so bright he compares it to the sun rising in the east.  This also and blood bruised moon and in astronomical terms it's a blood moon eclipse.  (We just had one last June).  It's not something that could be seen all over Planetos.   An ominous omen and one that Benerro seems to have some advanced knowledge:

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A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion VII

Benerro jabbed a finger at the moon, made a fist, spread his hands wide. When his voice rose in a crescendo, flames leapt from his fingers with a sudden whoosh and made the crowd gasp. The priest could trace fiery letters in the air as well. Valyrian glyphs. Tyrion recognized perhaps two in ten; one was Doom, the other Darkness.

We are never told about a blood moon eclipse as part of the Azor Ahai prophecy from Asshai, but perhaps this is a missing piece. 

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A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion VI

"What rantings?" the dwarf asked, toying with his rabble.

The Volantene waved a hand. "In Volantis, thousands of slaves and freedmen crowd the temple plaza every night to hear Benerro shriek of bleeding stars and a sword of fire that will cleanse the world. He has been preaching that Volantis will surely burn if the triarchs take up arms against the silver queen."

"That's a prophecy even I could make. Ah, supper."

He speaks of the original prophecy from Asshai which speaks bleedings stars (plural):

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A Clash of Kings - Davos I

Melisandre was robed all in scarlet satin and blood velvet, her eyes as red as the great ruby that glistened at her throat as if it too were afire. "In ancient books of Asshai it is written that there will come a day after a long summer when the stars bleed and the cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world. In this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him." She lifted her voice, so it carried out over the gathered host. "Azor Ahai, beloved of R'hllor! The Warrior of Light, the Son of Fire! Come forth, your sword awaits you! Come forth and take it into your hand!"

  •  

She later changes her propaganda to emphasize the the red comet but that is conflating the AA prophecy with the PWIP prophecy; a different but related prophecy.

So what or who are the bleeding stars?  Meteorites, correct?  Maybe not: 

Perhaps when the Faith Militant reforms and cuts bleeding stars into their flesh:

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A Feast for Crows - Brienne I

"And you, brother," said Ser Illifer. "Who are you?"

"Poor fellows," said a big man with an axe. Despite the chill of the autumnal wood, he was shirtless, and on his breast was carved a seven-pointed star. Andal warriors had carved such stars in their flesh when first they crossed the narrow sea to overwhelm the kingdoms of the First Men.

"We are marching to the city," said a tall woman in the traces of the wayn, "to bring these holy bones to Blessed Baelor, and seek succor and protection from the king."

The first half of next line of MMD's prophecy seems pretty clear:

"When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves."

Surely the first part is about the end of the long summer when the Dothraki sea dries up.  At the end of Dance,  Dany notices the the change from summer to autumn.  But the prophecy talks about seas (plural) and the cold breath of darkness falling on the land.  So, winter then and frozen seas.  

So what or who are the mountains blowing in the wind like leaves?

At the end of Dance, Dany's menses have returned or she miscarried.  

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A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys X

When she woke, gasping, her thighs were slick with blood.

For a moment she did not realize what it was. The world had just begun to lighten, and the tall grass rustled softly in the wind. No, please, let me sleep some more. I'm so tired. She tried to burrow back beneath the pile of grass she had torn up when she went to sleep. Some of the stalks felt wet. Had it rained again? She sat up, afraid that she had soiled herself as she slept. When she brought her fingers to her face, she could smell the blood on them. Am I dying? Then she saw the pale crescent moon, floating high above the grass, and it came to her that this was no more than her moon blood.

If she had not been so sick and scared, that might have come as a relief. Instead she began to shiver violently. She rubbed her fingers through the dirt, and grabbed a handful of grass to wipe between her legs. The dragon does not weep. She was bleeding, but it was only woman's blood. The moon is still a crescent, though. How can that be? She tried to remember the last time she had bled. The last full moon? The one before? The one before that? No, it cannot have been so long as that. "I am the blood of the dragon," she told the grass, aloud.

 It seems she can bare another living child.  So far all of Mirri's prophecies have subverted expectations.  

I still don't know what mountain's blowing in the wind could mean.  Is it simply volcanoes erupting?  Or perhaps, mountains, like giants are characters blown about by the wind.
 

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A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion IX

Might be we'll make Meereen after all, Tyrion thought.

But when he clambered up the ladder to the sterncastle and looked off from the stern, his smile faltered. Blue sky and blue sea here, but off west … I have never seen a sky that color. A thick band of clouds ran along the horizon. "A bar sinister," he said to Penny, pointing.

"What does that mean?" she asked.

"It means some big bastard is creeping up behind us."

 
 
 
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A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion IX

In the end, they did not drown … though there were times when the prospect of a nice, peaceful drowning had a certain appeal. The storm raged for the rest of that day and well into the night. Wet winds howled around them and waves rose like the fists of drowned giants to smash down on their decks. Above, they learned later, a mate and two sailors were swept overboard, the ship's cook was blinded when a kettle of hot grease flew up into his face, and the captain was thrown from the sterncastle to the main deck so violently he broke both legs. Below, Crunch howled and barked and snapped at Penny, and Pretty Pig began to shit again, turning the cramped, damp cabin into a sty. Tyrion managed to avoid retching his way through all of this, chiefly thanks to the lack of wine. Penny was not so fortunate, but he held her anyway as the ship's hull creaked and groaned alarmingly around them, like a cask about to burst.

Nearby midnight the winds finally died away, and the sea grew calm enough for Tyrion to make his way back up onto deck. What he saw there did not reassure him. The cog was drifting on a sea of dragonglass beneath a bowl of stars, but all around the storm raged on. East, west, north, south, everywhere he looked, the clouds rose up like black mountains, their tumbled slopes and collossal cliffs alive with blue and purple lightning. No rain was falling, but the decks were slick and wet underfoot.

 

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Nice post :).

4 hours ago, LynnS said:

There are a number of them we can discuss. To start,  Mirri Maaz Duur's answer to Dany's question:

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys IX

"When will he be as he was?" Dany demanded.

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur. "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."

So on the surface,  it seems pretty clear that the answer is never.   But is it?  Signs and portents seem to be prefaced with "when" something happens.  But do we know what the signs look like if we saw one?  Or who would see it?

Are you suggesting it's significant who sees it? Because I'm thinking, Tyrion sees 'the sun rise in the west', but so does everyone else east of Valyria. So, maybe if one person sees all the portents in the sense given by Mirri (similar to, that looks like the sun rising in the west) - then Drogo returns, though not necessarily as he was... so, maybe that one person could be 'Drogo' reborn?

It tickles me to imagine Tyrion in that role - not as Dany's true love (which is just as well, as apparently she's having kids with someone else at that stage) - but with that kind of sun king imagery which was such a big theory a while back (and which I completely failed to read, but I can guess the basic outline).

ETA

Tyrion doesn't need Dany to be the moon of his life anyway, he's got his own moon maiden - the Lannisters dressed Sansa in silver and ivory, and adorned her with moonstones.

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11 hours ago, Springwatch said:

Are you suggesting it's significant who sees it? Because I'm thinking, Tyrion sees 'the sun rise in the west', but so does everyone else east of Valyria. So, maybe if one person sees all the portents in the sense given by Mirri (similar to, that looks like the sun rising in the west) - then Drogo returns, though not necessarily as he was... so, maybe that one person could be 'Drogo' reborn?

Certainly everyone in universe who sees it, may see it as an ominous sign.  Martin shows it to the reader in Tyrion's POV.  It's the reader who will be shown the signs from different POV's if we notice them.  So MMD's prophecy which sounds impossible is being turned upside down.  

I don't know what mountains blowing in the wind like leaves could mean or if we have been shown this already.  A mountain is an unmoveable object; so can characters be described as mountains?  The Mountain that Rides is one example.  Perhaps not someone who is a giant as Brienne describes herself; but someone who can be characterized as a mountain by deed or reputation. 

Tyrion is the one chased across the sea by the bar sinister another ominous sign.  He survives the first wall of the hurricane to find himself in the eye of the storm on a sea of dragonlass, while it rages on around him.  He glimpses what appear to be mountains through the storm wall.  Only a mountain could survive such a storm.  Is Tyrion a mountain blown about like a leaf?

Tyrion is not only a witness to the blood moon in the sky; but he also notices it's twin on the water.  This could be foreshadowing of Euron, described now as the Blood Eye.  

It seems to me that Tyrion will find himself in the thick of all things prophetic.  As Moqorro says: "Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of all."

MMD's prophecy applies to Dany specifically and it seems that some of these impossible events have come to pass.  In her last chapter in Dance; she thinks her moon blood has returned after several months.  But is she pregnant?  Is she in danger of a miscarriage because of her physical condition?  It may be that she will bear another living child at Vaes Dothrak six months or so down the road.

I have no idea what it means to see Drogo as he once was.  

 

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9 hours ago, LynnS said:

Certainly everyone in universe who sees it, may see it as an ominous sign.  Martin shows it to the reader in Tyrion's POV.  It's the reader who will be shown the signs from different POV's if we notice them.  So MMD's prophecy which sounds impossible is being turned upside down.  

Seems like the portents are being weakly fulfilled (the Dothraki sea going dry for example) - and weak is fine I believe, because Jon's portents are weak and I have no doubt in his destiny coming good.

9 hours ago, LynnS said:

I don't know what mountains blowing in the wind like leaves could mean or if we have been shown this already.  A mountain is an unmoveable object; so can characters be described as mountains?  The Mountain that Rides is one example.  Perhaps not someone who is a giant as Brienne describes herself; but someone who can be characterized as a mountain by deed or reputation. 

Yeah, I struggle with this one. Comparison with a giant is easy to understand, it's commonly said in real life. And then we have the castles sometimes described like giants or monsters, and even Tywin's army described as a giant. But mountain doesn't suggest very much, just big. Still, you're probably right.

9 hours ago, LynnS said:

Tyrion is the one chased across the sea by the bar sinister another ominous sign.  He survives the first wall of the hurricane to find himself in the eye of the storm on a sea of dragonlass, while it rages on around him.  He glimpses what appear to be mountains through the storm wall.  Only a mountain could survive such a storm.  Is Tyrion a mountain blown about like a leaf?

Tyrion is not only a witness to the blood moon in the sky; but he also notices it's twin on the water.  This could be foreshadowing of Euron, described now as the Blood Eye.  

It seems to me that Tyrion will find himself in the thick of all things prophetic.  As Moqorro says: "Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of all."

That's good, I like it - Tyrion in the eye of a storm, and in the eye of a storm of dragons. I include Tyrion with the dragons, so could easily include  him with the mountains.

9 hours ago, LynnS said:

MMD's prophecy applies to Dany specifically and it seems that some of these impossible events have come to pass.  In her last chapter in Dance; she thinks her moon blood has returned after several months.  But is she pregnant?  Is she in danger of a miscarriage because of her physical condition?  It may be that she will bear another living child at Vaes Dothrak six months or so down the road.

I have no idea what it means to see Drogo as he once was. 

Oh, I hadn't thought of that. That would mean Drogo could be back much sooner than expected (I've been trying to find theories about solar kings and not really found it, but I do think Drogo is an icon of the day and won't return until the Long Night v2 has been turned back).

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1 hour ago, Springwatch said:

Seems like the portents are being weakly fulfilled (the Dothraki sea going dry for example) - and weak is fine I believe, because Jon's portents are weak and I have no doubt in his destiny coming good.

What do you think of as signs and portents for Jon?

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On 8/5/2021 at 8:03 PM, LynnS said:

What do you think of as signs and portents for Jon?

I leave this to Jon fans, because I find it so hard to pay attention to his chapters. But stuff like: the bleeding star being the death of Ser Patrek (sigil, a blue star); the place of smoke and salt being under the Wall where there are cells for prisoners (or dead Jon) and storerooms for smoked and salted foods. There is more than that, but for the life of me I can't remember it.

ETA

There's a list of prophecies, have you seen it? (https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Prophecies/Category/C138/). Wow.

ETA 2

Clearly not all prophecies include a portent, but do all portents emerge from a prophecy? I'm going to have a bit of a read.

ETA 3

Another portent claimed for Jon is that Longclaw was recovered from the fire in the Lord Commander's Tower. (From the ashes really, but that's what makes it a weak portent.)

ETA 4

Forgot the big one. Mel thinks she's asking for a vision of AA, but sees only snow.

ETA 5

We could add all the king mentions

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On 8/4/2021 at 11:41 AM, LynnS said:

I still don't know what mountain's blowing in the wind could mean.  Is it simply volcanoes erupting?  Or perhaps, mountains, like giants are characters blown about by the wind.

I bet the theory is correct that Tyrion symbolizes a mountain. Not only does he adopt the name "Hugor Hill" (huge hill?) but he has a cousin named Joy Hill (the bastard surname for the west). He buys and earns the loyalty and respect of the mountain clans and he falls under Gregor ("The Mountain") Clegane's command at the battle of the Green Fork. 

Hugor of the Hill was the legendary Andal king who was given all kinds of magical swag by the new gods. It wouldn't surprise me if Hugor is actually the landmass of Essos and his forty-four armored sons are actually mountains. 

If we are going to treat the mountains metaphorically, though, we should also think of deeper meanings for winds. Asha Greyjoy's ship is Black Wind; Robb Stark's wolf is Grey Wind. Dany says that Khal Drogo gives her the wind when he gives her the silver horse as a wedding gift. Maybe we are meant to extrapolate and think of winds as empowering and/or as means of mobilization. 

Maybe we parse even further and analyze the word "blowing". We know that horns are supposed to be important. What kind of mountain could blow (a horn)?

Edit: A couple more thoughts.

Technically, Jaime and Cersei's children could have the surname Hill, since their parents are both from the west. Although they were born in King's Landing so they might not be Hills - they would be Waters.

There are named mountains in a number of locations in Westeros: the Eyrie is built on a mountain called The Giant's Lance, for instance. Some of those named mountains might blow in the wind somehow.

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33 minutes ago, Seams said:

I bet the theory is correct that Tyrion symbolizes a mountain. Not only does he adopt the name "Hugor Hill" (huge hill?) but he has a cousin named Joy Hill (the bastard surname for the west). He buys and earns the loyalty and respect of the mountain clans and he falls under Gregor ("The Mountain") Clegane's command at the battle of the Green Fork. 

Hugor of the Hill was the legendary Andal king who was given all kinds of magical swag by the new gods. It wouldn't surprise me if Hugor is actually the landmass of Essos and his forty-four armored sons are actually mountains. 

If we are going to treat the mountains metaphorically, though, we should also think of deeper meanings for winds. Asha Greyjoy's ship is Black Wind; Robb Stark's wolf is Grey Wind. Dany says that Khal Drogo gives her the wind when he gives her the silver horse as a wedding gift. Maybe we are meant to extrapolate and think of winds as empowering and/or as means of mobilization. 

Maybe we parse even further and analyze the word "blowing". We know that horns are supposed to be important. What kind of mountain could blow (a horn)?

Edit: A couple more thoughts.

Technically, Jaime and Cersei's children could have the surname Hill, since their parents are both from the west. Although they were born in King's Landing so they might not be Hills - they would be Waters.

There are named mountains in a number of locations in Westeros: the Eyrie is built on a mountain called The Giant's Lance, for instance. Some of those named mountains might blow in the wind somehow.

Oh, this is excellent!  I completely missed the significance of taking on the identity of Hugor of the Hill.

Here's one referring to Sansa:

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A Feast for Crows - Brienne I

Only the soldier pines and sentinels still showed green; the broadleaf trees had donned mantles of russet and gold, or else uncloaked themselves to scratch against the sky with branches brown and bare. Every gust of wind drove swirling clouds of dead leaves across the rutted road. They made a rustling sound as they scuttled past the hooves of the big bay mare that Jaime Lannister had bestowed on her. As easy to find one leaf in the wind as one girl lost in Westeros. She found herself wondering whether Jaime had given her this task as some cruel jape. Perhaps Sansa Stark was dead, beheaded for her part in King Joffrey's death, buried in some unmarked grave. How better to conceal her murder than by sending some big stupid wench from Tarth to find her?

We can now associate Sansa with the Eyrie atop the Giant's Lance.  Both she and Tyrion have no control over where the winds take them.

Sansa is likely to inherit both Winterfell and the Eyrie:

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A Storm of Swords - Sansa IV

She threw back the shutters and shivered as gooseprickles rose along her arms. There were clouds massing in the eastern sky, pierced by shafts of sunlight. They look like two huge castles afloat in the morning sky. Sansa could see their walls of tumbled stone, their mighty keeps and barbicans. Wispy banners swirled from atop their towers and reached for the fast-fading stars. The sun was coming up behind them, and she watched them go from black to grey to a thousand shades of rose and gold and crimson. Soon the wind mushed them together, and there was only one castle where there had been two.

 

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2 hours ago, Springwatch said:

Clearly not all prophecies include a portent, but do all portents emerge from a prophecy? I'm going to have a bit of a read

They could be dreams rather than observable phenomena.  Ned's fever dream is filled with signs and portents:

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A Game of Thrones - Eddard X

"And now it begins," said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.

"No," Ned said with sadness in his voice. "Now it ends." As they came together in a rush of steel and shadow, he could hear Lyanna screaming. "Eddard!" she called. A storm of rose petals blew across a blood-streaked sky, as blue as the eyes of death.

The red comet (which Ned will not live to see), the coming storm, dragons and white walkers. 

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22 hours ago, Seams said:

Hugor of the Hill was the legendary Andal king who was given all kinds of magical swag by the new gods. It wouldn't surprise me if Hugor is actually the landmass of Essos and his forty-four armored sons are actually mountains. 

I'm going to say that mountains are characters that will achieve legendary status, 

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George RR Martin on Fire Magic - YouTube

At 1m 28s mark, Martin talks a bit about the Red Comet, signs and portents.

"I try to pay off prophecies in a way that the reader doesn't necessarily see."

Mirri Maaz Duur's prophecy is a good example.  

Martin says that thing you have to do as a fantasy writer, is pay them off in unexpected ways.

There is a good chance thrn, that the prophecy from Asshai will be paid off in some unexpected way:

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A Clash of Kings - Davos I

Melisandre was robed all in scarlet satin and blood velvet, her eyes as red as the great ruby that glistened at her throat as if it too were afire. "In ancient books of Asshai it is written that there will come a day after a long summer when the stars bleed and the cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world. In this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him." She lifted her voice, so it carried out over the gathered host. "Azor Ahai, beloved of R'hllor! The Warrior of Light, the Son of Fire! Come forth, your sword awaits you! Come forth and take it into your hand!"

I've said before that this could be a reference to the Faith Militant carving the seven pointed star into their flesh and I think it's one of those signs that we don't necessarily recognize at first.

The prophecy later mutates into AA born under the bleeding star which Mel and others equate with the red comet.  One that she conflates with the PWIP prophecy.  I think they are different referring to two different characters but related in that the comet is a messenger or herald of the warrior.  It identifies Dany as the PWIP, the one who is chosen to be the mother of dragons and the bride of fire.  The warrior is yet to come.

I wonder if this will take the form of someone fighting under the banner of the seven pointed star.   

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"likely to happen"

But not necessarily will happen. Free will exists if for no other reason than it puts responsibility on the character.

That moment is one of the most important of all. Dany made her choice. She sacrificed Drogo. He's not coming back but his spirit lives inside Drogon. It perfectly fits the Azor Ahai prophecy. The spirit of her lover is in her Lightbringer, Drogon.  Khal Drogo was an impressive specimen of a man. He is a fitting soul for Drogon.

 

 

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57 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

"likely to happen"

But not necessarily will happen. Free will exists if for no other reason than it puts responsibility on the character.

That moment is one of the most important of all. Dany made her choice. She sacrificed Drogo. He's not coming back but his spirit lives inside Drogon. It perfectly fits the Azor Ahai prophecy. The spirit of her lover is in her Lightbringer, Drogon.  Khal Drogo was an impressive specimen of a man. He is a fitting soul for Drogon.

Are you talking about the last line of MMD's prophecy, that Dany will see Drogo as he once was? How will it come about that she will see him?

ETA:  I should say that I do think there is something to this transmigration of souls into dragon eggs.  A kind of bonding that happens from infancy perhaps.  

I'm just not sure how Dany will see Drogo as he once was in life.  I'm guessing that it might have something to do with the crones at Vaes Dothrak and whether Dany will undergo some kind of test or initiation.  One that involves drugs and visions.

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If you understand Dragonstone is going to have a Doom event then many things fall into place. Understanding that these prophesies haven't happened yet helps a lot too.

Dragonstone will explode and the sea around it will run dry. The eruption will shatter the volcanic mountain and turn it to dust, which is the mountain swaying in the wind. The dried out seabed will be salted and the volcanic explosion will produce smoke, and that's the salt and smoke of the AA prophesy. They're the same event.

The sun being or seeming to be in the wrong spot is referenced twice in the text and both associated with a Doom event. One is in the OP as Tyrion goes by Valyria. The second is the unknown Doom event at Hardhome.

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Hardhome had been halfway toward becoming a town, the only true town north of the Wall, until the night six hundred years ago when hell had swallowed it. Its people had been carried off into slavery or slaughtered for meat, depending on which version of the tale you believed, their homes and halls consumed in a conflagration that burned so hot that watchers on the Wall far to the south had thought the sun was rising in the north. Afterward ashes rained down on haunted forest and Shivering Sea alike for almost half a year. Traders reported finding only nightmarish devastation where Hardhome had stood, a landscape of charred trees and burned bones, waters choked with swollen corpses, blood-chilling shrieks echoing from the cave mouths that pocked the great cliff that loomed above the settlement.

When Dragonstone goes Doom, to the people of Westeros it will appear as if the sun is setting in the East.

Dragonstone is the back in Quaithes "to go forward you must go back", it is back in the sense that it is where Dany was born.

As Mel gets everything half right,

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The flames do not lie, else you would not be here. It is written in prophecy as well. When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone. The bleeding star has come and gone, and Dragonstone is the place of smoke and salt. Stannis Baratheon is Azor Ahai reborn!

which GRRM decides to have Mel repeat to Jon in DWD.

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"He is not dead. Stannis is the Lord's chosen, destined to lead the fight against the dark. I have seen it in the flames, read of it in ancient prophecy. When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone. Dragonstone is the place of smoke and salt."

Wait and see if Jon doesn't recall that last line of Mel's some point in the future.

Both the MMD 'prophesy' and AA prophesy are the same event pointing towards a birth. MMD's is after Dany's womb has quickened, the AA prophesy is your typical birth of a savour type thing. It's also about waking dragons from stone and well... dragon... stone.

Also in Tyrion's language in passing the remnants of Valyria's Doom recall Dany is symbolically the moon (moon of my life).

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Only the brightest stars were visible, all to the west. A dull red glow lit the sky to the northeast, the color of a blood bruise. Tyrion had never seen a bigger moon. Monstrous, swollen, it looked as if it had swallowed the sun and woken with a fever. Its twin, floating on the sea beyond the ship, shimmered red with every wave. "What hour is this?" he asked Moqorro. "That cannot be sunrise unless the east has moved. Why is the sky red?"

And the moon is swollen, monstrous and woken with fever. Pregnant Dany. Swallowed the sun - as per the Dothraki legend of the birth of dragons.

To give it out bluntly, Drogon is Drogo's second life and Rhaego's death/sacrifice was needed to make it happen, specifically Rhaego's soul fuels the dragon's fire. During the course of the story Drogon will be turned into stone. So that she may wake Drogon back from stone (Drogo returning to her, be as he was), to save the world from the Others, a pregnant Dany will believe she has to sacrifice her child, that if she does the child's soul will wake the dragon from stone and return it to fire, and she can save the world riding it into battle against the Others. In the dried out seabed below an exploding Dragonstone is where this birth is going down. And so when the child is born comes the question, what is one bastard child's life against the survival of the whole realm?

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6 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

And the moon is swollen, monstrous and woken with fever. Pregnant Dany. Swallowed the sun - as per the Dothraki legend of the birth of dragons.

That's an interesting take on it.  I have wondered if the place of smoke and salt is the Smoking Sea surrounded by it's ring of volcanoes.  The dragonglass sea that Tyrion finds in the eye of the hurricane.

The blood moon/blood eye and it's twin floating on the water seem to me to be about Euron and what his is up to in the Foresaken chapter.. 

The instruction from Quaithe about going backwards to go forward, to pass beneath shadow seems to be about going back to Vaes Dothrak.  That she must pass beneath the shadow of the Mother of Mountains and accomplish something there before she can move forward.

I expect that there are as many different ways of interpreting the prophecies as there were ways of describing the red comet in Feast for Crows. 

I'm curious about it because Martin has said that he will pay off the prophecies in ways that people won't expect and that Signs and Portents are not necessarily something the reader will recognize as such.

I think it's a Qartheen legend that you reference:

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys III

"A trader from Qarth once told me that dragons came from the moon," blond Doreah said as she warmed a towel over the fire. Jhiqui and Irri were of an age with Dany, Dothraki girls taken as slaves when Drogo destroyed their father's khalasar. Doreah was older, almost twenty. Magister Illyrio had found her in a pleasure house in Lys.

Silvery-wet hair tumbled across her eyes as Dany turned her head, curious. "The moon?"

"He told me the moon was an egg, Khaleesi," the Lysene girl said. "Once there were two moons in the sky, but one wandered too close to the sun and cracked from the heat. A thousand thousand dragons poured forth, and drank the fire of the sun. That is why dragons breathe flame. One day the other moon will kiss the sun too, and then it will crack and the dragons will return."

I think the other moon in this case is the red comet, something that flies close to the sun.  The moon does represent Dany in that context and in the PWiP prophecy as the mother of dragons.  The dragon eggs crack open from the heat of the funeral pyre.

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys X

Her vest had begun to smolder, so Dany shrugged it off and let it fall to the ground. The painted leather burst into sudden flame as she skipped closer to the fire, her breasts bare to the blaze, streams of milk flowing from her red and swollen nipples. Now, she thought, now, and for an instant she glimpsed Khal Drogo before her, mounted on his smoky stallion, a flaming lash in his hand. He smiled, and the whip snaked down at the pyre, hissing.

She heard a crack, the sound of shattering stone. The platform of wood and brush and grass began to shift and collapse in upon itself. Bits of burning wood slid down at her, and Dany was showered with ash and cinders. And something else came crashing down, bouncing and rolling, to land at her feet; a chunk of curved rock, pale and veined with gold, broken and smoking. The roaring filled the world, yet dimly through the firefall Dany heard women shriek and children cry out in wonder.

Only death can pay for life.

 

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If we are cracking some eggs, compare Melisandre's liturgy to Dany's placement of the dragon eggs in Drogo's pyre:

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Davos VI

The nightfire burned against the gathering dark, a great bright beast whose shifting orange light threw shadows twenty feet tall across the yard. All along the walls of Dragonstone the army of gargoyles and grotesques seemed to stir and shift.

Davos looked down from an arched window in the gallery above. He watched Melisandre lift her arms, as if to embrace the shivering flames. "R'hllor," she sang in a voice loud and clear, "you are the light in our eyes, the fire in our hearts, the heat in our loins. Yours is the sun that warms our days, yours the stars that guard us in the dark of night."

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A Game of Thrones - Daenerys X

"They were not given to me to sell," Dany told him.

She climbed the pyre herself to place the eggs around her sun-and-stars. The black beside his heart, under his arm. The green beside his head, his braid coiled around it. The cream-and-gold down between his legs. When she kissed him for the last time, Dany could taste the sweetness of the oil on his lips.

As she climbed down off the pyre, she noticed Mirri Maz Duur watching her. "You are mad," the godswife said hoarsely.

The black egg represents the fire in our hearts; the green egg beside the head the light in our eyes and cream an gold egg, the heat in our loins.

MMD also tells us that death must pay for life.  But who's death pays for each dragon egg?

It looks like MMD pays for the green egg (head/eyes); she takes the life of Rheagal: 

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Daenerys IV

Faster and faster the visions came, one after the other, until it seemed as if the very air had come alive. Shadows whirled and danced inside a tent, boneless and terrible. A little girl ran barefoot toward a big house with a red door. Mirri Maz Duur shrieked in the flames, a dragon bursting from her brow. Behind a silver horse the bloody corpse of a naked man bounced and dragged. A white lion ran through grass taller than a man. Beneath the Mother of Mountains, a line of naked crones crept from a great lake and knelt shivering before her, their grey heads bowed. Ten thousand slaves lifted bloodstained hands as she raced by on her silver, riding like the wind. "Mother!" they cried. "Mother, mother!" They were reaching for her, touching her, tugging at her cloak, the hem of her skirt, her foot, her leg, her breast. They wanted her, needed her, the fire, the life, and Dany gasped and opened her arms to give herself to them . . .

Drogo pays for the cream and gold egg having taken Viserys' life:

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys X

Her vest had begun to smolder, so Dany shrugged it off and let it fall to the ground. The painted leather burst into sudden flame as she skipped closer to the fire, her breasts bare to the blaze, streams of milk flowing from her red and swollen nipples. Now, she thought, now, and for an instant she glimpsed Khal Drogo before her, mounted on his smoky stallion, a flaming lash in his hand. He smiled, and the whip snaked down at the pyre, hissing.

She heard a crack, the sound of shattering stone. The platform of wood and brush and grass began to shift and collapse in upon itself. Bits of burning wood slid down at her, and Dany was showered with ash and cinders. And something else came crashing down, bouncing and rolling, to land at her feet; a chunk of curved rock, pale and veined with gold, broken and smoking. The roaring filled the world, yet dimly through the firefall Dany heard women shriek and children cry out in wonder.

The black egg, the fire in our hearts;  who was sacrificed, who did the killing and pays for it with their own life? 

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