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Stranger Things: Too Old For This


SpaceChampion
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I would have liked the ending more if

Spoiler

The gate closed when El forced Max's heart to start beating again, but Max isn't there anymore - hence El can't find her telepathically either - and the scene at the very end is the gate reopening with us left to realise this means Max died in the hospital.

Person of Interest let's us figure out someone is dead prior to actually showing it in a similar manner (albeit not cliffhangered) and I found it very impactful.

On the antagonist situation

Spoiler

I think there is more to it than just Henry still. He found the cloud of smoke which was *something* and moulded it into shape, my interpretation was that it was essentially a formless malevolence (which qualifies as an Eldritch horror) which he then merged with giving it sentience, intelligence and a direction for it's malice. The black particles are then how the hive mind is propagated into the other creatures etc.

 

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Posted (edited)

Am I going insane? Are they making me insane? 

Season 4 takes place in March of 1986, during spring break. Master of Puppets was released March 3, 1986. There is. No. Fucking. Way. Eddie could have learned the guitar parts on that album in a couple of weeks. An accurate tablature would not be published for years after; which means he'd have to learn it by ear and practice non-stop.

Impossible! He'd have to do this, and go to school and fulfill his roles as trailer park Apothecary and Grand Poobah of the Hellfire Club. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. 

Iron Maiden's Number of the Beast on the other hand, had been out for 4 years. 'Maiden is even teased in the prologue. Ohmygod I would have hit the ceiling and shat my bowels if they busted that one out.  

Eat my ass Stranger Things. 

Edited by Deadlines? What Deadlines?
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Well, the demo for the album was a year earlier, and I don't know if that leaked and was bootlegged around.

But even so, people totally can learn a song in a few days. I saw discussion of this on the Metallica Reddit and someone referenced a guy who did spot-on renditions of the guitar parts of all the new songs on an album within a week of its release. Surely if you're a talented guitarist with an ear for music you could manage a single song in a week.

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Lies Lies Lies Lies Lies :D

12 minutes ago, Ran said:

Well, the demo for the album was a year earlier, and I don't know if that leaked and was bootlegged around.

The earliest complete-ish recording of that song was a demo recorded in a garage in El Cerrito, California in June '85. The first time that ever saw the light of day was on the a 3 disc special edition that was only released a few years ago. There is zero chance Eddie would have heard that.

The earliest live performance was December 31, 1985 at the Civic Auditorium in San Francisco, CA. Could a bootleg have made it to small-town Indiana in under 3 months? Doubtful. And the audio quality is so terrible I doubt a high school student with Eddie's many commitments could have learned much from that. 

Also, just because the album was released March 3, '86, Eddie might not have been able to buy a copy until weeks later. Metallica was still a pretty obscure band back then. They wouldn't have gotten the same priority a Whitney Huston or Lionel Richie would have. An album release in those days relied on physical media being shipped on trucks to record stores. The major centers would have gotten in on the day, but it might not have been available in Hawkins until weeks later.

In the pre-internet days, you might not learn a new album was out until you actually saw it on the shelves. 

41 minutes ago, Ran said:

But even so, people totally can learn a song in a few days. I saw discussion of this on the Metallica Reddit and someone referenced a guy who did spot-on renditions of the guitar parts of all the new songs on an album within a week of its release. Surely if you're a talented guitarist with an ear for music you could manage a single song in a week.

And who is this mythical unicorn man? 

I'm sorry, Stranger Things. The telekinetic girl, the upside down, the benevolent CIA guy; you had me. But my suspension of disbelief only goes so far.

Then again, Eddie is pretty amazing so who knows?

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

The earliest live performance was December 31, 1985 at the Civic Auditorium in San Francisco, CA. Could a bootleg have made it to small-town Indiana in under 3 months? Doubtful.

You're not saying impossible, I notice! 

57 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

And the audio quality is so terrible I doubt a high school student with Eddie's many commitments could have learned much from that. 

Depends on the bootleg. Some bootlegs were literally recordings patched right into the sound systems.

57 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Also, just because the album was released March 3, '86, Eddie might not have been able to buy a copy until weeks later.

"might" means unlikely, not impossible, though.

57 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Metallica was still a pretty obscure band back then.

I suppose they weren't yet chart-toppers, but in 85 they started playing at huge festivals in the US and Europe, so genre enthusiasts certainly had opportunity to hear about them.

57 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

They wouldn't have gotten the same priority a Whitney Huston or Lionel Richie would have. An album release in those days relied on physical media being shipped on trucks to record stores. The major centers would have gotten in on the day

Hawkins is like an hour and change from Indianapolis. I would figure record stores, especially any that were specialized in the genre, would have gotten that one more or less on release.

57 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

In the pre-internet days, you might not learn a new album was out until you actually saw it on the shelves. 

"Might" again!

57 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

And who is this mythical unicorn man? 

Eh, I misremembered the claim -- it was about Megadeth's new single (released on the 23rd) and a guy covering all the guitar parts within a day. Actually, by the looks of it, several guys.

Is it improbable that "Master of Puppets" is the song Eddie would play? Yes. Is it impossible? No. 

Edited by Ran
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Look, it was obvious Reefer Rick was wealthy enough as an pharmaceutical entrepreneur to fly to San Francisco for Metallica's New Year's Eve concert, with a hidden tape deck to record a bootleg copy which he shared with Eddie a few days later.

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10 minutes ago, Ran said:

Depends on the bootleg. Some bootlegs were literally recordings patched right into the sound systems.

I have yet to hear one. All the bootlegs I've heard were concert goers with tape recorders. The one I was referring to sounded really bad.

11 minutes ago, Ran said:

I suppose they weren't yet chart-toppers, but in 85 they started playing at huge festivals in the US and Europe, so genre enthusiasts certainly had opportunity to hear about them.

 In the USA, In early '86 Metallica was the support act for Ozzy Osborne. They played the north east and mid west like this starting in late March '86, after Eddie was dead. 

By the time they made it to Winnipeg, they were headlining. They played the Playhouse theater, which seats about 1,500. My mom used to drag me there to see my little sisters ballet recitals. I could not imagine 1500 metalhead packing that place. 

It's pretty easy these days to understate just how disconnected small town North America was from the rest of things. No internet. No streaming. No national radio chains. No simultaneous film releases in 4500 theaters all at once. The local DJ largely dictated musical tastes in those days. You could probably count on one hand the number of times Metallica got played on the radio in the entire United States prior to the black album.

I can't remember if Eddie had a vehicle or not, but a trip to Indianapolis is far enough that one might question whether or not they trust their car to make it there and back. My friends and I (those of us that had cars) all drove beaters in those days. We might consider a trip to the lake, but any more than that and you'd have to ask yourself just how robust your vehicle is. They don't build them like they used to, and that's a good thing.

Oh, and that shitty VW van making it cross country in two days with no breakdowns? Whatever you say Stranger Things. There's one shot where Jonathan smashes the throttle and the speedometer maxes out almost instantly. Sorry, that thing couldn't do that wet grass.

18 minutes ago, SpaceChampion said:

Look, it was obvious Reefer Rick was wealthy enough as an pharmaceutical entrepreneur to fly to San Francisco for Metallica's New Year's Eve concert, with a hidden tape deck to record a bootleg copy which he shared with Eddie a few days later.

I'll allow th... A'HA! Isn't Reefer Rick in jail, smart guy?

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

 In the USA, In early '86 Metallica was the support act for Ozzy Osborne. They played the north east and mid west like this starting in late March '86, after Eddie was dead. 

In 1985 they played at the Day on the Green festival in Oakland, no Ozzy in sight, a festival of 60,000 people. Ditto with their appearance at the Monsters of Rock festival at Castle Donington.

I really don't see the problem with it. They had a Ride the Lightning tour stop in Indianapolis in January of 1985, maybe Eddie and his buddies decided to check it out and became fast fans. Who knows? 

Edited by Ran
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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Ran said:

In 1985 they played at the Day on the Green festival in Oakland, no Ozzy in sight, a festival of 60,000 people. Ditto with their appearance oat the Monsters of Rock festival at Castle Donington.

They were at the bottom of the bill in both those festivals. Kirk Hammett commented that he got more sun than he had in years and the guys weren't used to getting top that early. 

ETA: and they were probably included at Day on the Green because they were the biggest Bay Area band, where the '80's thrash scene had its start. Very far from the mid-west. 

Edited by Deadlines? What Deadlines?
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7 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

They were at the bottom of the bill in both those festivals. Kirk Hammett commented that he got more sun than he had in years and the guys weren't used to getting top that early. 

ETA: and they were probably included at Day on the Green because they were the biggest Bay Area band, where the '80's thrash scene had its start. Very far from the mid-west. 

And still, none of this says "impossible". 

Day on the Green was surely covered in Circus or Creem, and a quick Google tells me both magazines had features on Metallica in 1985. They had national distributions and early to mid-.80s was peak heavy metal coverage for Circus.

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34 minutes ago, Ran said:

And still, none of this says "impossible". 

Day on the Green was surely covered in Circus or Creem, and a quick Google tells me both magazines had features on Metallica in 1985. They had national distributions and early to mid-.80s was peak heavy metal coverage for Circus.

None of which helps Eddie master the down picking in the chorus without his arm going all...

Spoiler

 

 

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5 hours ago, Ran said:

But even so, people totally can learn a song in a few days. 

This is absolutely true.

Source: 12 years a frontman in a totally awesome rock band.

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So on the enemy thing and how it makes sense - 

Spoiler

Season 1 had the demogorgon scouting things. At that point vecna isn't entirely aware of what is going on and how things work. The demogorgon has been infected with mindflayer particles and is thus under control of One. One still fears Eleven at this point and is not sure what she is capable of, and is worried since she created the gate she can do more. 

Season 2 had the mindflayer controlling more, including Will. Vecna wants to take over the world but the gates are still not able to be created by him. Vecna takes a risk and it almost works but ends up failing. The gate is closed. Mindflayer particles go inert without the psychic link. Demogorgons become back to their normal selves. A part of the mindflayer particles are left in the old steel mill.

Season 3 has the Russians open the gate enough to reawaken the portal. Gate is unstable and doesn't last long enough to send things through, but it is enough to reactivate the psychic link. Mindflayer particles now have one goal - to steal elevens power and transfer it to Vecna. They partially succeed when she is wounded by the creature and loses her powers. 

Season 4 has vecna able to open portals in a very specific way, and has a link to the real world but not one he can physically attune to. He can find minds like eleven can and can cause enough of a psychic connection to create a gate.

 

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47 minutes ago, KalVsWade said:

So on the enemy thing and how it makes sense - 

  Hide contents

Season 1 had the demogorgon scouting things. At that point vecna isn't entirely aware of what is going on and how things work. The demogorgon has been infected with mindflayer particles and is thus under control of One. One still fears Eleven at this point and is not sure what she is capable of, and is worried since she created the gate she can do more. 

Season 2 had the mindflayer controlling more, including Will. Vecna wants to take over the world but the gates are still not able to be created by him. Vecna takes a risk and it almost works but ends up failing. The gate is closed. Mindflayer particles go inert without the psychic link. Demogorgons become back to their normal selves. A part of the mindflayer particles are left in the old steel mill.

Season 3 has the Russians open the gate enough to reawaken the portal. Gate is unstable and doesn't last long enough to send things through, but it is enough to reactivate the psychic link. Mindflayer particles now have one goal - to steal elevens power and transfer it to Vecna. They partially succeed when she is wounded by the creature and loses her powers. 

Season 4 has vecna able to open portals in a very specific way, and has a link to the real world but not one he can physically attune to. He can find minds like eleven can and can cause enough of a psychic connection to create a gate.

 

Is this you putting it together or is it sourced from somewhere?

It's still a weird set up regardless, with the lack of who's actually in control of things...

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@Deadlines? What Deadlines? @Ran

 

That was the greatest internet debate I've witnessed in years and it singlehandedly restored my faith in that the internet can be a force for good. 

Points to Deadlines because I think you conclusively proved that Eddy shouldn't have been able to play the Master of Puppets solo that well. Points to Ran because it's still the coolest TV scene of the year.

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4 hours ago, Spockydog said:

This is absolutely true.

Source: 12 years a frontman in a totally awesome rock band.

Eddie wasn't a frontman in a band for 12 years. 

7 hours ago, Ran said:

Actually, by the looks of it, several guys.

Those guys are both professionals. The first guy is a guitar teacher. Is it too obvious to point out that online guitar tutorials and youtube playthroughs also didn't exist in 1986?

1 hour ago, Caligula_K3 said:

@Deadlines? What Deadlines? @Ran

 

That was the greatest internet debate I've witnessed in years and it singlehandedly restored my faith in that the internet can be a force for good. 

Points to Deadlines because I think you conclusively proved that Eddy shouldn't have been able to play the Master of Puppets solo that well. Points to Ran because it's still the coolest TV scene of the year.

Nevahs!

I thought it was a great scene too. I just think it would have been cooler with 'Maiden. Exactly 10% cooler in fact.  

Number of the Beast has a slightly more upbeat opening riff. It also would have resonated well with the other aspects of the '80's satanic panic that was shown this season. The whole "D&D is the occult" thing was totally a thing back then. 

 

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