House Dayne words

[Falcon2909]

according to Elio, he knows what the house words are but GRRM isn't happy with them and he doesn't know the final set of words which is why he hasn't revealed their words to the public : 

Maybe we'll see them in TWOW and aDOS.

 

But is there also another reason - House Dayne's words are too spoilery too be used early in the story. He wants to reveal them in the end:  "Lightbringer",  "Dawn Ends The Night"

[LynnS]

"Let the Wicked Tremble"

[Hugorfonics]

"When you wish upon a star"

[Tucu]

"10 more minutes mum!"

[Falcon2909]

20 minutes ago, Tucu said:

"10 more minutes mum!"

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

[Loose Bolt]

Sieg Heil. Those words would really tell a lot about origin of house Dayne and from where Valyrians got their idea about being superior race.

[James Steller]

25 minutes ago, Loose Bolt said:

Sieg Heil. Those words would really tell a lot about origin of house Dayne and from where Valyrians got their idea about being superior race.

So we want the Others to win after all? Good twist!

[Megorova]

In my opinion the founder of House Dayne was a son of Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa (who was Azor's fourth wife), while the founder of House Hightower was a son of Azor's second wife. When the First Long Night ended, Azor's family migrated from Asshai to Valyria and Westeros. Possibly Azor had five wives and 44 sons - the first wife was the mother of those 40 sons of Azor that founded 40 dragonlord families, so out of the remaining 4 children (Hightower, Corbray, Dayne, Swann) the founder of House Hightower was the oldest. Apparently he was the first out of his half-siblings who went to Westeros. It seems that he was his family's scout, and his House's words are - We light the way. So the House words of Daynes are possibly also something functional that reflect/represent their role in Azor's family.

Hightowers were scouts, it seems that Corbrays were messengers, Daynes are warriors, and Swanns are "magicians" (shadowbinders, skinchangers, bloodmages).

So either Dayne's words are about their warrior status in Azor's family, or it's something in dedication to Nissa's sacrifice, or it's something about the origin of the Dawn/Lightbringer.

[Daena the Defiant]

"We Don't Bounce, We Don't Float"

[Mister Smikes]

Ours is the Big-Ass Sword

Worthier Than You

We Show Up In Book Seven

We Never Jump Off Towers

Crannogmen Really Suck

We've Got Lemons

Please Don't Dishonor Us

Seven To Three Isn't Fair

We Can Slay Little Girls

 

 

[YoungGriffonis]

I our hands, the Morning Sword ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Firefae]

It's propably is related to Dawn and "The Sword of the Morning".

 

"We Guard The Dawn" or something along that vein.

 

And if you believe that Dawn is Lightbringer, maybe "We Bring the Light" or something less obvious. I'm not good at this. 

[Daena the Defiant]

"Ours is the Emo Bullshit"

 

[Mister Smikes]

As Far from the Others As Possible.

[Lady Isis]

We Light the Night

[Targaryeninkingslanding]

The longest night ends at dawn

[Falcon2909]

On 8/10/2021 at 3:34 AM, Megorova said:

In my opinion the founder of House Dayne was a son of Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa (who was Azor's fourth wife), while the founder of House Hightower was a son of Azor's second wife. When the First Long Night ended, Azor's family migrated from Asshai to Valyria and Westeros. Possibly Azor had five wives and 44 sons - the first wife was the mother of those 40 sons of Azor that founded 40 dragonlord families, so out of the remaining 4 children (Hightower, Corbray, Dayne, Swann) the founder of House Hightower was the oldest. Apparently he was the first out of his half-siblings who went to Westeros. It seems that he was his family's scout, and his House's words are - We light the way. So the House words of Daynes are possibly also something functional that reflect/represent their role in Azor's family.

Hightowers were scouts, it seems that Corbrays were messengers, Daynes are warriors, and Swanns are "magicians" (shadowbinders, skinchangers, bloodmages).

So either Dayne's words are about their warrior status in Azor's family, or it's something in dedication to Nissa's sacrifice, or it's something about the origin of the Dawn/Lightbringer.

I agree with all of your points - except about corbrays and swanns. 
Why do you think they came from asshai/Great empire of the dawn?

[Megorova]

20 hours ago, Falcon2909 said:

I agree with all of your points - except about corbrays and swanns. 
Why do you think they came from asshai/Great empire of the dawn?

My explanation is kind of long and at the beginning it seems like I'm going way off topic, but that isn't so, keep reading and you'll understand that all that is indeed relevant for what you asked.

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I think that GRRM left clues in the books concerning Azor's possible descendants. For example about Hightowers (in my opinion these elements in the books are clues):

The World of Ice & Fire, Oldtown (important/relevant elements are written in bold text):

Quote

How old is Oldtown, truly? Many a maester has pondered that question, but we simply do not know. The origins of the city are lost in the mists of time and clouded by legend. Some ignorant septons claim that the Seven themselves laid out its boundaries, other men that dragons once roosted on the Battle Isle until the first Hightower put an end to them.

Quote

One such, Maester Jellicoe, suggests that the settlement at the top of Whispering Sound began as a trading post, where ships from Valyria, Old Ghis, and the Summer Isles put in to replenish their provisions, make repairs, and barter with the elder races, and that seems as likely a supposition as any.

 

Even more enigmatic to scholars and historians is the great square fortress of black stone that dominates that isle. For most of recorded history, this monumental edifice has served as the foundation and lowest level of the Hightower, yet we know for a certainty that it predates the upper levels of the tower by thousands of years.

Who built it? When? Why? Most maesters accept the common wisdom that declares it to be of Valyrian construction, for its massive walls and labyrinthine interiors are all of solid rock, with no hint of joins or mortar, no chisel marks of any kind, a type of construction that is seen elsewhere, most notably in the dragonroads of the Freehold of Valyria, and the Black Walls that protect the heart of Old Volantis. The dragonlords of Valryia, as is well-known, possessed the art of turning stone to liquid with dragonflame, shaping it as they would, then fusing it harder than iron, steel, or granite.

If indeed this first fortress is Valyrian, it suggests that the dragonlords came to Westeros thousands of years before they carved out their outpost on Dragonstone

Yi Ti/Empire of the Dawn:

Quote

Certain scholars from the west have suggested Valyrian involvement in the construction of the Five Forts, for the great walls are single slabs of fused black stone that resemble certain Valyrian citadels in the west … but this seems unlikely, for the Forts predate the Freehold’s rise, and there is no record of any dragonlords ever coming so far east.

Thus the Five Forts must remain a mystery.

Based on that (and other) texts I made conclusions that the origin of the technique with which were build Five Forst at Yi Ti and the black fortress at Oldtown are Yi-Tish emperors, who were Azor Ahai's ancestors (because in my opinion his mother was the Amethyst Empress, and the Bloodstone Emperor was Azor's maternal uncle). So those mysterious castles were build by Azor's ancestors&descendants, both at Essos and Westeros. And they (the builders) were also ancestors&descendants of Valyrians, because the first Valyrians were Azor's children. 44 sons, in parallel to 44 sons of Hugor of the Hill, the first King of the Andals. GRRM likes to insert that sort of meaningful parallels into his books. Like 44 Andals & 44 Azor Ahai's children.

When the First Long Night ended, Azor's family was migrating from Yi Ti and Asshai thru Valyrian peninsula. 40 of his children brought with them 40 dragon eggs that they took from R'hllor's temple in Asshai in which Azor forged Lightbringer.

(Yi Ti: "How long the darkness endured no man can say, but all agree that it was only when a great warrior—known variously as Hyrkoon the Hero, Azor Ahai, Yin Tar, Neferion, and Eldric Shadowchaser—arose to give courage to the race of men and lead the virtuous into battle with his blazing sword Lightbringer that the darkness was put to rout, and light and love returned once more to the world.

Yet the Great Empire of the Dawn was not reborn, for the restored world was a broken place where every tribe of men went its own way"), <- Azor's family migrated.

In Davos' chapter in ACOK, in the legend about Azor it was said - "And so for thirty days and thirty nights Azor Ahai labored sleepless in the temple, forging a blade in the sacred fires."

To me it's kind of obvious that the Lightbringer was forged in R'hllor's temple, because in ASOIAF-world the fire is sacred only in R'hllor's religion. And dragons are "fire made flesh" and all that other mambo-jambo that Dany usually said about her family's origin. So the dragons are connected to R'hllor, thus because Azor apparently was a Red Priest, at his temple were stored dragon eggs that were left by ancient dragons that all died long prior the First Long Night started (the temple kept those eggs because for the followers of the Fire God they were something like holy relics). So when afterwards Azor and his family were migrating from east to west (they were going to Starfall, actually to buil Starfall), they took with them 40 dragon eggs. Because that's how many of them there were remaining at the temple from the ancient times, left there by those first dragons that supposedly hatched from the second moon/Asshai's Shadow, but actually broke out of the space-ship.

( What space-ship? - The Ark. In my opinion the founder of the Great Empire of the Dawn, the God-on-Earth and the ancestor of Azor Ahai and Valyrians actually was Haviland Tuf (it's the name of the main character from GRRM sci-fi series "Tuf's Voyaging"). So Dany and Jon are partially humans even though they are inhabitants of Planetos, because their ancestor Tuf was an Earthling. Tuf/God-on-Earth - > Yi Tish emperors -> Amethyst Empress - > Azor Ahai -> Valyrians -> Targaryens. That's maybe why HBO Max Exploring Yi Ti Animated Series). <- section The Latest News on the upper left side of this forum. In my opinion they (HBO Max) are interested in making a story that takes place at Yi Ti, because it's where everything started, from Tuf's Ark.)

So they (Azor's children) took those eggs and because Azor had 44 children but there was only 40 dragon eggs, 4 of his children were left eggless. And when they were going thru Valyria, the eggs hatched (because the climate/conditions there was good for the dragons (14 volcanoes = hot)), thus those 40 newly made Dragonlords settled at Valyria, while their 4 dragonless half-siblings continued their journey west.

Those 40 were born by the same mother - Azor's first wife, while the remaining 4 were born all by different mothers. So the 40 Valyrian Dragonlords were half-siblings of the first Lord Hightower. Though they had dragons and he didn't. So, even though originally he had established good relationship with them and even created a trading port so that his Valyrian relatives were able to visit him, eventually he broke up with them. Because the Hightowers also wanted to have dragons, but their Valyrian relatives refused to share, thus this - "dragons once roosted on the Battle Isle until the first Hightower put an end to them".

You agreed about Hightower Lord being Azor's descendant. Because there are a lot of clues. Like - the black forstress at Oldtown that was build using the same techniques that were used both at Yi Ti and later by the Valyrians; the dragons roosting at Oldtown; silver-gold hair and violet eyes of Hightowers, etc.

Though in my opinion in the books there are also clues about Azor's other sons, not only about the Hightower and Dayne. Because that's how I found them (Corbrays and Swanns) - > thru clues.

Why was I explaining in details about Hightowers? - > It's for you to be able to see a similarity and to build a parallel. There are clues that connect the first Hightower to Valyrians, and those clues are connected to what sort of relationship there was between that first Hightower and his Valyrian half-siblings. They (Valyrians) had similar sort of relationship with their other dragoless half-siblings. Such as Corbrays.

Clues about Corbrays:

Corwyn Corbray owned a Valyrian steel sword, Lady Forlorn. I think it was a present from his half-Valyrian siblings.

"Ser Corwyn Corbray was an Andal knight during the Andal invasion of the Vale and the founder of House Corbray"

Corwyn being an Andal knight doesn't actually mean that he himself also was an Andal. For example, Dany is a Dothraki khalesee, but she is not a Dothraki herself.

Also, out of the proto-Seven Kingdoms the Vale was invaded by the Andals much earlier than the other regions, thousands years earlier. The later Andals were migrating from Essos to Westeros because there they were being oppressed by the rising Valyrians that were conquering/enslaving Essos. Though those earlier Andals, those that went to the Vale, went there long prior Valyrians and their dragons started to become a threat for the other inhabitants of Essos. So that first Corbray, based on the timing, could have been Azor Ahai's son and half-sibling of the founders of the 40 Dragonlord Families.

There's more clues, but I'm a bit busy now, so I'll continue later. There are as many (subtle) clues/connections between Valyrians and Corbrays as there between Hightowers and Valyrians. Read info about House Corbray at AWOIAF-wikia, maybe you'll be able to find those clues on your own (they are there, subtle hints).

[Moiraine Sedai]

Born at the crack of Dawn

[Megorova]

@Falcon2909

Continuation.

"Parallel"/similarity between Hightowers and Corbrays:

1. Black "Valyrian" fortress at Battle Isle / Lady Forlorn, Valyrian steel sword of Corbrays.

2. When Valyrians were visiting their dragonless relatives at Westeros, their dragons were roosting nearby:

"dragons once roosted on the Battle Isle until the first Hightower put an end to them" / from AWOIAF-wikia "Snakewood is located to the northeast along the bay, while the Eyrie is south across a mountain range.^[2] According to semi-canon sources, Heart's Home is within the southernmost river valley of the snakewood forest.^[3]" "The Lands of Ice and Fire depicts a forest in the vicinity of Heart's Home, although it does not extend as far as the castles of Snakewood, Coldwater, or Strongsong.^[4]"

Heart's Home is the castle of Corbrays, the snakewood forest is located near their castle. Could be that it's called "snakewood" because dragons were roosting there while their Valyrian masters were visiting their relatives at the Vale.

3.

In my opinion Azor Ahai had 5 wives and 44 sons. I think so because of the Fiery Hand and Hugor of the Hill.

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Fiery_Hand

"The Fiery Hand is a group of slave soldiers employed as guards for the red temple of R'hllor in the Free City of Volantis. The Fiery Hand contains a thousand soldiers, never more and never less.^[1] "

If there are 1000 of them (and a hand has 5 fingers, not 1000), then why are they called a fiery hand?

"Five soldiers of the Fiery Hand escort the priest Moqorro aboard the Selaesori Qhoran.^[3] "

So I think that R'hllor's slaves are called a Fiery Hand because they are a parallel to Azor Ahai and his five wives (Moqorro and his five / Azor and his five).

The first finger is a thumb. Valyria on a map looks like a thumb.

The thumb-wife and her children had settled at Essos, while the other four sons migrated to Westeros.

So the mother of Azor's first 40 children, those who founded 40 Dragonlord families of Valyria, was his first wife.

If my theory is correct and the founder of House Hightower was a pioneer/scout, and his House's moto (We light the way) is the indication of that, then the other three of the remaining dragonless sons of Azor also have some sort of hints in their Houses' motos or sigils that are clues about their mothers/Azor's wives.

The mother of Valyrians is the first wife, the thumb; Hightower's mother is the second wife, or a forefinger / foreward finger or pointing finger / not only "We light the way" but also "We show the way/we poin where to go".

So there are three fingers/three wives remaining and one of them is Nissa Nissa. So which "finger" is she? According to the legend about the forging of Lightbringer, Nissa Nissa was Azor's beloved wife. Which means she was his favourite wife, more loved than the other wives. Thus she is his fourth wife, a "ring finger"-wife.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_finger

"Before medical science discovered how the circulatory system functioned, people believed that a vein ran directly from the fourth finger on the left hand to the heart.^[4] Because of the hand–heart connection, they chose the descriptive name vena amoris, Latin for the vein of love, for this particular vein.^[5]

Based upon this name, their contemporaries, purported experts in the field of matrimonial etiquette, wrote that it would only be fitting that the wedding ring be worn on this finger.^{[citation needed]} By wearing the ring on the fourth finger of the left hand, a married couple symbolically declares their eternal love for each other."

If Nissa Nissa is the fourth wife/ring-finger, then the remaining two wives are the third (middle finger) and the fifth (little finger).

So Azor had three wives and then he met Nissa and married her and she became his favourite. His first wife gave birth to 40 of his children, his second wife's son was given a title of their family's scout (which was probably a very high position. It's like Azor was something like a parallel to Lord Commander and his Hightower son was like the First Ranger - second person in the Night's Watch after the LC) and was second in command in their family, and the third wife became neglected because of Azor's infatuation with Nissa, so she became forlorn (forlorn means abandoned, neglected, miserable, etc.).

So when Valyrians gave to their half-brother a Valyrian steel sword, he named it after his mother - Lady Forlorn.

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Lady_Forlorn

Maybe the founder of House Corbray (Corwyn) was indeed an Andal, because his mother was an Andal, so that's why she was a "lady".

On the sigil of House Corbray there are three ravens that carry three hearts. Ravens because while Hightower was their family's scout, the Corbray-son was their family's messenger and ravens carry messeges. And there are three ravens and three hearts because it's an indication that the mother of the founder of House Corbray was Azor Ahai's third heart/his third wife.

So point 3. is -

Hightower the son of the "point-finger"-wife - scout/first ranger - We light the way / Corbray the son of the "third finger"-wife - messenger - ravens, three hearts, Lady Forlorn.

~~~

Now about Swanns, why them as Azor's possible descendants?

While reading the World book, I realised that Johanna Swann the Black Swan of Lys was Larra Rogare's mother. Then I figured out that Larra Rogare and Serenei of Lys is the same person. I also figured out that the shadowbinder Quaithe is Shiera Seastar, and also that she is the Three-Eyed Crow. You can read about this in my theory "Swan Song", the link is in my signature, it's a theory in 16 parts/threads, each thread is about separate topic. Second is about Johanna Swann, third is about Larra/Serenei, fourth is about Shiera/Quaithe/3EC, and 16th is about Azor Ahai and his descendants.

I figured out that Johanna Swann, her daughter Larra/Serenei, and her granddaughter Shiera, all three of them were(are) cat-skinchangers. Arya Stark is a cat-skinchanger in addition to being a warg because she (and her siblings, and Jon) is a descendant of Johanna Swann, and Swanns are carriers of skinchanging genes.

House Swann are "dark horses" of ASOIAF. I figured out that they are important for what is going to happen during the Second Long Night. Also I think that they are hereditary "magicians". They are not only carriers of skinchanging genes, they are also shadowbinders and bloodmages. And I think that they have inherited those abilities from their ancestor - Azor Ahai's fifth wife.

Azor met Nissa Nissa, she was his true love, and his fourth wife. He even forlorned his third wife because of Nissa. So why did he married again? He had five wives, otherwise there would have been no Fiery Hand, so there was another wife already after Nissa's death, after the First Long Night ended. So who was that wife, and why did they married?

In real world there was an ancient custom according to which if a woman's husband died, one of her husband's relatives (usually a brother) was obligated to marry with her (even if he was already married, because it was in those times when there were poligamous marriages, like in the Bible).

According to the World Book - "When the daughter of the Opal Emperor succeeded him as the Amethyst Empress, her envious younger brother cast her down and slew her, proclaiming himself the Bloodstone Emperor and beginning a reign of terror. He practiced dark arts, torture, and necromancy, enslaved his people, took a tiger-woman for his bride, feasted on human flesh, and cast down the true gods to worship a black stone that had fallen from the sky."

I think that Azor's mother was the Amethyst Empress, so the tiger-woman was the widow of Azor's uncle (the uncle probably was either defeated and killed by Azor or the bloodstone killled him), and thus he had to marry her. She wasn't actually a tiger, she was a cat-skinchanger, like Johanna Swann, and her daughter Larra Rogare, and Larra's daughter Shiera Seastar, and Arya.

Thus House Swann, who are skinchangers and practitioners of dark arts, such as bloodmagic and shadowbinding, are descendants of Azor Ahai and his fifth wife - the tiger-woman.

Based on all that, in my opinion, Azor Ahai's descendants were - 40 Valyrian dragonlords, and the founders of Houses Hightower, Corbray, Dayne and Swann.