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Was pycelle poisoning the Targaryen royal family?


Mrstrategy
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I dunno. You bring up a very interesting point in that Pycelle has plausible deniability to have done so. I always took it for granted that the story we are given was what actually happened. But now you bring it it up, it definately feels like a Citadel move.

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7 hours ago, Mithras said:

How can this affect the current plot? This is the real question.

This goes to fanfiction but I assume that Westeros would be totally different if some rebel leaders like Jon A and Bobby B had died at Gulltown or Ned had been captured by Royal Navy. Or if Targs had had more loose princes there is a chance that Iron Throne had killed the rebellion at Vale.

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I don’t think so. While he certainly was not the most loyal of maesters, he did what he did out of his own interests. 

I believe he either cultivated a relationship with Tywin over the years or, based upon the events during the rebellion and knowinf Tywin’s power & wealth, understood what was going to happen and cast his die.

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12 hours ago, Mrstrategy said:

Was pycelle poisoning the Targaryen royal family since Aerys wife had trouble having child once Aerys become king and Elia had trouble having children and both were under the care of Pycelle as grand maester?

It’s a good theory. Prince Viserys and Princess Daenerys were saved in more ways than one. Exile saved their lives. It would also make a fitting connection. Beware of the healer. If Pycelle and Mirri were murdering the unborn Targaryens, who is to say that others in the past were also doing it.  Was Elia born weak or was she subjected to poison?  
 

I believe Jon Snow is the son of Brandon and Lyanna Stark. But let’s say the father was someone else. Someone important. Aerys or Rhaegar. The maester who was tending Lyanna could have poisoned her to cause a miscarriage. Lyanna was a strong, healthy girl. But a strong enough poison could induce a problem.  

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Nah, if Pycelle wanted to do that, Rhaella would have died before she could give birth to Rhaegar in 259 AC or Rhaegar would have died in the cradle and his parents wouldn't have lived long enough to even try to conceive more children.

If the Grand Maester wants to poison you, he will find a way. And especially Aerys - who was an easy-going womanizer and party king in his youth - should have been very easy to poison when he was in his cups or otherwise distracted.

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Sounds like it'd make more sense with Rhaella than with Elia. Rhaella had all those babies die in the crib or lost during pregnancy save for 3, while Elia struggled with her pregnancies yet managed to deliver two healthy children. Maybe Aerys was right to be paranoid, but didn't stop to think about the who or the why. Though the question is if Pycelle would've continued on if the Targs stayed in power.

 

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22 hours ago, Mithras said:

How can this affect the current plot? This is the real question.

This is what I thought, and given Pycelle is dead seems moot and like we won't get an answer aside from Varys.

It's Pycelle, so his motivation is Tywin. He confesses to Tyrion he thought Tywin might take the throne in ACOK during the sack of KL, so that's the only reasonable outcome. Tywin was already ruling the realm until he left KL, that was what, 14 years as hand?

EDIt make that 19 years as hand

Edited by Leonardo
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I doubt Pycelle had anything to do with the Targaryen children dying. Pycelle isn't brave enough to do what's suggested. 

Personally, I'm more inclined to believe that whatever happened at Summerhall with the sorcery affected Rhaella. But beyond that, we know what the boys she gave birth died from SIDS.

As far as Elia goes, there's absolutely nothing in the text that suggests that she had problems with her pregnancies. Elia's problem wasn't that she couldn't get pregnant, or that she wasn't able to carry to term. She had two kids inside two years. Elia's problem was giving birth because her health was fragile. She was bedridden for 6 months after Rhaenys was born and Aegon's birth almost killed her and put an end to her being able to have children.

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Rhaella's fertility issues most likely have to do with her getting pregnant and giving birth at a very early age, with Rhaegar being born under traumatic circumstances. Aerys II is older than Rhaella and he turned only fifteen in 259 AC. Rhaella could have been only fourteen or thirteen when she gave birth to Rhaegar, meaning her problems in the birthing department may have been the same as Aemma Arryn's back in the 90s.

There is nothing fishy about any of that.

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Many Targaryens (including Aerys II and his children) indeed were poisoned by someone to whom they trusted. Only it wasn't Pycelle. The Kingsguards did it. Because actually those Kingsguards were the Faceless Men.

Previously I thought that some Targaryens were mad because of their genes, but recently I realised that they were going mad because they were poisoned by the FM. King Aerys gradually became insane because KG/FM were poisoning him with basilisk blood.

“This paste is spiced with basilisk blood. It will give cooked flesh a savory smell, but if eaten it produces violent madness, in beasts as well as men." - AFFC, chapter 34, Cat of the Canals.

"The queen had been cloaked and hooded as she climbed inside the royal wheelhouse that would take her down Aegon’s High Hill to the waiting ship, but he heard her maids whispering after she was gone. They said the queen looked as if some beast had savaged her, clawing at her thighs and chewing on her breasts. A crowned beast, Jaime knew." - AFFC, Jaime II.

Seems likely that they did the same thing to Maegor the Cruel and several other Targaryens.

The Faceless Men, that were posing as Kingsguards, also killed this people - Aenys I, Maegor the Cruel, 11 out of 13 children of Jaehaerys I and Queen Alysanne, Aegon II and his wife Helaena and their daughter Jaehaera (first wife of Aegon III), maybe Baelor the Blessed, definitely Daeron II and his four sons - Baelor Breakspear, Aerys I, Rhaegel, Maekar I, and Daeron's grandchildren - Valarr, Matarys, Aelor and Aelora, Daeron the Drunken, Aegon V and his wife and siblings and all those other people that died at Summerhall (because it seems that the Summerhall's Burning was orchestrated by the Faceless Men and the Blackfyres); Jaehaerys II and his grandchildren - Aerys II's children.

The FM were adding poison into Queen Rhaella's food and this caused problems with her health, and caused miscarriages and stillbirths of her children. And those of her children that were lucky enough to survive to their birth, later still were killed by FM, smothered in their cradles. Because who would ever suspect a Kingsguard? That's how the Faceless Men were getting away with murder, while they were mass-killing Targaryens for nearly 300 years of their reign at the 7K. There was a Faceless Man even in the very first set of the Kingsguards - Humfrey the Mummer. Though it's just a theory.

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