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Won't Somebody Please Think Of The Incels?


Spockydog

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2 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

You profess to know quite a lot abut this community. How so?

And why do you care so much about them, when you quite clearly care so little for the genuinely oppressed and downtrodden in our society?

Hmmm....

 

I mentioned it in the other thread but I know people who were part of it, and did my research after getting frustrated by some of their shit. Believe me I have said stuff like ‘ wash more and dress better’ but it’s it doesn’t work when someone has deep set emotional issues and serious social problems. It has made me realise how much misinformation there is floating around about it all.

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27 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I’m not a social worker but I’m pretty sure it involves more than telling them to wash more.

I am a social worker, and funnily enough, sometimes it is telling people to wash more.  Or telling people to wash more is part of the skills building mental health process.

 

It is just in the how and tone you deliver that message.

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2 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I mentioned it in the other thread but I know people who were part of it, and did my research after getting frustrated by some of their shit. 

Yeah, I bet you were a bundle of empathy.

 

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3 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I mentioned it in the other thread but I know people who were part of it, and did my research after getting frustrated by some of their shit. Believe me I have said stuff like ‘ wash more and dress better’ but it’s it doesn’t work when someone has deep set emotional issues and serious social problems. It has made me realise how much misinformation there is floating around about it all.

What “misinformation” they aren’t posting about how they are entitled to sex and how they believe women are “their’s” to use as they please?

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Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

What “misinformation” they aren’t posting about how they are entitled to sex and how they believe women are “their’s” to use as they please?

That they are all mass murderers for a start, or all think the same thing. Most of them seem to be just deeply depressed sad bastards who want to complain about their lives and blame other people for their problems. 
 

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8 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

That they are all mass murderers for a start, or all think the same thing. Most of them seem to be just deeply depressed sad bastards who want to complain about their lives and blame other people for their problems. 
 

Make up your mind, ffs.

Half an hour ago they were all 'on the spectrum'.

Then you reduced that to 'about a quarter of them'.

Now it's 'most of them are just deeply depressed'.

Which is it? Eh?

I mean, you complain about misinformation whilst coming out with mountains of crap. SMH.

 

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5 minutes ago, Toth said:

... so what's the point of this thread again? Just bitching about each other?

Yeah, what IS the point?. To find a solution to incels? Doesnt seem like it.i dont think is that crazy to suggest that incel types need a little more help than empty shit like wash yourself. Cuz their real problem isnt that they cant get women. And if they are depressed or something, telling them to shower wont acomplish nothing. 

It is our responsability as men, to help other men be less mysoginistic. And to do that we need empathy, we need to be compassionate, even though its extremely hard, and thats why it has to be men, its our fucking problem, and it'd be unfair for the people being threaten by incels (women) to do the helping, so its us, cis men that have to try and do something. Something more than to say take a shower. They have jordan peterson for that, and how has that helped?. 

 

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Pretty sure most would reject an offer of help from Jordan Peterson because Incels passionately are against self help or self improvement ( another reason why wash yourself is meaningless). It’s basically nihilism, the entire point is that they all believe they are too genetically ugly to ever be loved and so there is just no point in trying.

Its not even true in a lot of cases, one guy I knew was a good looking 6 footer, but still became obsessed with the way his face looked in photos. Basically dismorphia. Thought he was too ugly to ever get a girlfriend. Serious issues there.

So while I think yes, it’s definitely a thing where men should do more to pull these guys out of this crap, sometimes it needs professional help to really make a difference.

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Will they actually engage?  It is very hard to empathize with men who claim all women are “goldiggers” and “whores” looking to rip men off.  How can we empathize with that?  Seriously?  

I’m willing to try but every time I’ve engaged with incels they resort to shouting about how “deluded” I am about women… simply because I’ve been married 20 years.

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17 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Will they actually engage?  It is very hard to empathize with men who claim all women are “goldiggers” and “whores” looking to rip men off.  How can we empathize with that?  Seriously?  

I’m willing to try but every time I’ve engaged with incels they resort to shouting about how “deluded” I am about women… simply because I’ve been married 20 years.

It’s very difficult to engage with anyone who believes they see the world in a more ‘real’ way than you because they’ve taken a pill, red or black or whatever. Basically the same as telling a hard core Christian that there’s no heaven. 
 

Especially as it relies on a lot of easy answers that don’t require any real effort, and an ideology that is basically all about giving up.

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53 minutes ago, Conflicting Thought said:

Yeah, what IS the point?. To find a solution to incels? Doesnt seem like it.i dont think is that crazy to suggest that incel types need a little more help than empty shit like wash yourself. Cuz their real problem isnt that they cant get women. And if they are depressed or something, telling them to shower wont acomplish nothing. 

It is our responsability as men, to help other men be less mysoginistic. And to do that we need empathy, we need to be compassionate, even though its extremely hard, and thats why it has to be men, its our fucking problem, and it'd be unfair for the people being threaten by incels (women) to do the helping, so its us, cis men that have to try and do something. Something more than to say take a shower. They have jordan peterson for that, and how has that helped?. 

 

As said before, they do need support to improve their grooming, get some exercise, and get out more and join things. Such things are proven ways of addressing depression. Even if it is easy to rubbish them as "empty shit". And I agree it is probably particularly up to fellow males to do it if they can't manage to socialise nicely with females yet.

But from what I know of Jordan Peterson, he is not about "telling them to have a shower". He is rather a right wing male supremacist who wants a "return to patriarchy". And so I do agree that he is not any part of the solution here.

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1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

the entire point is that they all believe they are too genetically ugly to ever be loved and so there is just no point in trying.

I dont think it really has to do with them believing that they are genetically inferior (even when that can be a part of it) or something. i think it does have to do with misoginy and toxic masculinity.  I dont think you get rid of the problem even if they somehow get a partner. The underlying issue is not that they are virgins or cant get a woman. Its the patriarchy, its a systemic issue. 

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4 minutes ago, Conflicting Thought said:

I dont think it really has to do with them believing that they are genetically inferior (even when that can be a part of it) or something. i think it does have to do with misoginy and toxic masculinity.  I dont think you get rid of the problem even if they somehow get a partner. The underlying issue is not that they are virgins or cant get a woman. Its the patriarchy, its a systemic issue. 

Meh. I think most of them come because they have been continuously rejected and humiliated, and bullied in life. The community gives them a reason for why that is, which allows them to absolve themselves of responsibility. It feels good. 
 

Why do you think ‘the patriarchy’ brings them to that community?

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54 minutes ago, A wilding said:

But from what I know of Jordan Peterson, he is not about "telling them to have a shower". He is rather a right wing male supremacist who wants a "return to patriarchy". And so I do agree that he is not any part of the solution here.

He is both? I havent read any of his books but from what i see, He does tell them to clean their rooms and shit like that, but under  all that he spreads his horrible real message, that ultimately confirms the incels world view. 

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22 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Meh. I think most of them come because they have been continuously rejected and humiliated, and bullied in life. The community gives them a reason for why that is, which allows them to absolve themselves of responsibility. It feels good. 
 

Why do you think ‘the patriarchy’ brings them to that community?

Because “the Patriarchy” is what is teaching them to value themselves based upon the number of sexual partners they’ve had.  That is “toxic masculinity”.  It hurts us all.

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So one of the things I've not seen mentioned is that there is a general need for men as a whole to have better community and social aspects that is largely not available for a whole lot of people. Incels, PUA crap, Proud Boys - a lot of this is preying on the simple need to be part of something and have nonsexual intimate relationships with other people. And for men in the US, that's becoming harder and harder to do or allow. If you're not into sports (either as a player or a watcher) the choices of socially acceptable activities are vanishingly small. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Because “the Patriarchy” is what is teaching them to value themselves based upon the number of sexual partners they’ve had.  That is “toxic masculinity”.  It hurts us all.

Again ‘meh’. It also ignores the fact that we live in a hyper sexualised society that promotes sex as the path to true happiness, whether you are male or female and that everyone should be having sex all the time. That isn’t really the patriarchy at work. 

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