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International Events VII- Afghan Catastrophe


DireWolfSpirit

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When fear of the "other" is at least part of what is motivating you then you tend to overestimate the capability and / or the malicious intentions of the "other", which is partly out of fear of not wanting to underestimate their capability or malicious intentions.

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Completely different topic so a different post. There is a WHO live stream webinar happening now, and tomorrow talking about Antimicrobial resistance. It's being live streamed on Youtube. Might be of passing interest to some, but should be of keen interest to people in the medical and agriculture fields.

 

 

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11 hours ago, Gorn said:

There is a major ongoing dispute about the rights on gas and oil in the Aegaean Sea between Greece and Turkey, mostly caused by Turkey not recognizing the UN Law of the Sea and the economic zone borders it defines.

If you spend some time in the Turkish nationalist corners of the internet, you will find people talking about the Treaty of Lausanne "expiring" in 2023 and openly eyeing the Greek islands near their coast, which is often based on actual official statements of Turkish politicians and government figures.

Personally, I don't think Greeks are paranoid for beefing up their military and making sure France is in their corner. Better to have them and not need them...

I am aware of that. But I don't see that turning into a full scale war. There the bigger NATO members would be quite adament. The economic backlash would also be quite severe with EU sanctions coming Turkey's way pretty instantly. So I am not that worried about that escalating into a full scale war.

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6 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Little late to respond to this but I have to say this pontification whilst also inaccurate seems something that would just demotivate people with any interest in fighting back against the anti-democracy movement happening in the US.

If the US is already totalitarian there’s not much point in trying to keep more blatantly fascists out of power.

The far right in the west does not oppose China because they’re practicing a genocide(they are) or totalitarianism. They oppose china because China is the opposition for their perceived want for dominance on the global stage.  

 .

No, it's accurate.  The US has the world's largest prison population, you are more likely to be jailed here than any other country in the world.  

As for the rest of that, it was sort of my point.  FNR has made xenophobic comments in the past about how he doesn't want to raise his kids in a neighborhood where people look or speak differently than them.  I didn't want to let the Sinophobia go unchallenged.  It's quite prevalent in the media and as you said, the reason for it is economic rather than any issues with China's human rights record.  My original comment was to point out how bizarre it is to judge any action based on whether or not it upsets China and then cite some vague moral shit that can equally be applied to plenty of nations, including the US and many of its allies.  Would he also say any thing that pisses off Saudi Arabia or South Africa is by default a good thing?  It's ridiculous.

Sorry if the comparison bothered you so much?  Whether or not I think the US is totalitarian shouldn't have much influence on whether or not it's possible to change things for the better.  If me comparing the US to China makes someone want to give up fighting for voting rights that's on them, not me.  

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1 hour ago, larrytheimp said:

No, it's accurate.  The US has the world's largest prison population,

A non-totalitarian can have a large prison population.

Something being bad isn’t default an special feature of a totalitarian state.

1 hour ago, larrytheimp said:

you are more likely to be jailed here than any other country in the world.  

There is legitimate grievance in the US in terms of how sentences are given out, rehabilitation is approached in lack of investment in certain areas of the public to prevent crime.

But it’d silly and overdramatic to say it’s large prison population means it’s a totalitarian state.

1 hour ago, larrytheimp said:

As for the rest of that, it was sort of my point.  FNR has made xenophobic comments in the past about how he doesn't want to raise his kids in a neighborhood where people look or speak differently than them. 

Obviously, and I imagine he’d not bust out his guns if Muslims were rounded up in a concentration camp in his home country.

Now having said that, we don’t have to pretend that the US is a totalitarian state like China just because he said China bad for being a totalitarian state.

The US domestically is at this moment better than the dictatorship in China. 
 

1 hour ago, larrytheimp said:

I didn't want to let the Sinophobia go unchallenged. 

This here is a stretch.

1 hour ago, larrytheimp said:

It's quite prevalent in the media and as you said, the reason for it is economic rather than any issues with China's human rights record.

True, but their human rights record domestically is worse than western nations including the US.

The US was better domestically  in ww2 in comparison to Nazi germany.

It is better than China now. 

1 hour ago, larrytheimp said:

Would he also say any thing that pisses off Saudi Arabia or South Africa is by default a good thing?  It's ridiculous.

Of course not.

1 hour ago, larrytheimp said:

Sorry if the comparison bothered you so much? 

It’s a unhelpful and bad comparison. Why even participate in elections to prevent authoritarians from taking over and dismantling democracy when the US is already a totalitarian state? 

1 hour ago, larrytheimp said:

Whether or not I think the US is totalitarian shouldn't have much influence on whether or not it's possible to change things for the better.

Of course not, but such thinking makes it easier for progressives and liberals to not find the authoritarian movements to end democracy in the US as horrific as they should. 

An actual totalitarian regime in the US would be much worse for a lot issues and it’s really important to recognize how worse it can actually get.

 

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6 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

I am aware of that. But I don't see that turning into a full scale war. There the bigger NATO members would be quite adament. The economic backlash would also be quite severe with EU sanctions coming Turkey's way pretty instantly. So I am not that worried about that escalating into a full scale war.

I don't consider war likely, but I don't consider it impossible either. Turkey and Greece were already in a (unofficial, limited) shooting war with each other once before, in Cyprus in 1974, with zero repercussions from the rest of NATO. And Erdogan is quite desperate to redirect attention away from Turkish economy and domestic issues, and might actually welcome the shift to bunker mentality that would allow him to remain in power.

Also, the EU sanctions aren't always an effective deterrent (see Russia and Crimea).

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I think there must be some kind of rule, hiding in these threads, a bit like Godwin's law. But in this case, it's about the International thread inevitably getting around to talking about the USA. Not that anything should be done about it. The USA is part of the international scene. It's just an observation of a regular pattern.

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1 hour ago, Gorn said:

Also, the EU sanctions aren't always an effective deterrent (see Russia and Crimea).

And the EU is reliant on Turkey for a few things, which Turkey uses to its advantage (e.g. reducing immigration flows).    It wouldn't be easy at all to control Turkey, if Erdogan chooses to push a few things

10 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

If there is a cold war then it's the west choosing to start it.

That's a rather audacious statement.  Putting most of the blame on one side.  I don't see a very good argument to support that.  Not that I want to put the blame on China either.

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14 minutes ago, Conflicting Thought said:

Ok, but on what do you base that assertion? 

Do you think you currently can go out and give a critism of Jing in China or the current communist regime in public?

3 hours ago, Padraig said:

That's a rather audacious statement.  Putting most of the blame on one side.  I don't see a very good argument to support that.  Not that I want to put the blame on China either.

I think There is a propensity for some progressives to too eagerly reference their nation’s wrongdoing and problems when a nation not aligned with theirs is attacked or automatically see it as the primary aggressor in a conflict.

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23 minutes ago, Conflicting Thought said:
1 hour ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

 

Ok, but on what do you base that assertion? 

Could be the forced labor death camps ?

https://www.npr.org/2021/06/10/1005263835/new-report-details-firsthand-accounts-of-torture-from-uyghur-muslims-in-china

The United Nations has said that up to 1.5 million Uyghurs are in internment camps in China. Speaking to NPR's Weekend Edition last year, Adrian Zenz, senior fellow in China studies at the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, called it probably the largest incarceration of an ethnoreligious minority since the Holocaust and said the effort meets the U.N.'s definition of genocide.

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52 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

 

I think There is a propensity for some progressives to too eagerly reference their nation’s wrongdoing and problems when a nation not aligned with theirs is attacked or automatically see it as the primary aggressor in a conflict.

There's a tendency on the left to make anyone that opposes the US the correct one in any situation.

 

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Im not herw to defend china, i know about some things, at least i think i know, my information about the chinese situation comes from sources that many times have an agenda. They fabricate or exagerate, and it wouldnt be the first time. 

Some times they report thing about china that when you look past the sensationalism, its nothing like they say it was. 

I belive its true that china doesnt respext han rights within it borders i just dont think the west is necessarily superior on that front. 

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45 minutes ago, Conflicting Thought said:

Im not herw to defend china, i know about some things, at least i think i know, my information about the chinese situation comes from sources that many times have an agenda. They fabricate or exagerate, and it wouldnt be the first time. 

Some times they report thing about china that when you look past the sensationalism, its nothing like they say it was. 

I belive its true that china doesnt respext han rights within it borders i just dont think the west is necessarily superior on that front. 

Dude are you seriously trying to deny the the fact china is in the process of committing a genocide against the Uygurs. Jesus. 

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Random anecdote, I went on a few business trips to China a few years ago.  One time I brought along a book about North Korea (A Kim Jong-Il Production).  That book is about a pretty crazy incident in Korea when Kim Jong-il kidnapped a famous South Korean actress and her director ex-husband and made them make movies together for North Korea.  I found the book interesting and tried chatting about the incident with my Chinese coworkers.  They reacted very negatively, that I shouldn't be reading a book like that and we shouldn't talk about it. 

Considering this was not a book about China at all, I thought that was pretty eye opening.  Far from the worst thing going on in China (see Uygur genocine mentioned above), but it really drove home to me just how very far the fear and lack of freedom in China goes. 

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