Covid-19 #37: Mississippi Worming

[Zorral]

19 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Unlike BionTech/Pfizer with Moderna the first jab is supposedly the nasty one.

That wasn't the case with me.  It was the second innoculation that knocked me out for about 38 hours with aches, pains, chills and fever, and utter exhaustion, but nothing else, thank goodness.  Ibu and staying in bed and sleeping handled it, and I was as OK as I ever am after that.

Whereas Partner had Pfizer (sorry I haven't even learned how to spell the correct name yet, much less learned to pronounce it), and was quite tired with the first innoculation, and somewhat less so with the second one, though for us both our arms remained quite sore far longer after the second one than the first.

 

[Makk]

16 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

News report tonight: out of 277 cases so far, 40 people were fully vaccinated, none are unwell. Vaccinated people who get breakthrough infections can carry viral loads as high as unvaccinated people.

The numbers Ardern gave at the press conference were 34 people with a single shot and 10 with a double. Not sure if there was another report or not. Even so these numbers are disheartening given the low percentage of people vaccinated when this hit. The numbers were not really a much lower proportion than unvaccinated cases.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

@Zorral @Prince of the North

Like I said, my experience with Moderna was also somewhat different.

First jab zero symptoms. Maybe the sore arm was masked by the fact, that I was suffering from a shoulder injury a few weeks earlier. Truth be told, if anything my arm/shoulder even felt somewhat better after the jab. Next day, I had some headaches, which I attributed more to the weather than to the jab.

Second jab. They asked me about side effects, and I said somewhat disappointingly nothing. That's when the the doctor told me, that I would probably not experience any symptoms after the second shot, as in the first shot was supposedly the nastier one with Moderna.

The next day, I was also out for a day with flu symptoms, which were manageable with paracetamol. I didn't feel like cooking that day, as in, too dizzy, and I was still feeling some nausea, resulting in me not being sure whether it's a) worth it and b) whether I could keep the food in. Fortunately I still had one pack of instant ramen for situations like those. And yes, I could keep the food in - thanks for asking.

Friend's wife also got moderna and the second jab took her out for a couple of days.

[Fragile Bird]

A friend of mine had AZ for her first shot and was pretty sick for two days. Then Canada decided not to give second shots, so she got Moderna, about 12 weeks later. She told me she was expecting to be sick as a dog again, since the she’d be getting a first Moderna shot, but fortunately she had nothing more than a bit of a sore arm at the injection site.

[The Anti-Targ]

59 minutes ago, Makk said:

The numbers Ardern gave at the press conference were 34 people with a single shot and 10 with a double. Not sure if there was another report or not. Even so these numbers are disheartening given the low percentage of people vaccinated when this hit. The numbers were not really a much lower proportion than unvaccinated cases.

It was on the One News 6PM bulletin. So maybe they mis-quoted. The thing about reading into those numbers is that we don't know P. P being the population that has been exposed to the virus. We also don't know Pv and Pu, being the subsets of P that are vaccinated people and unvaccinated people. And we also don't know Ppv and Pfv (partially and fully vaccinated). So we can't draw firm conclusions about the infection rate in vaccinated vs unvaccinated from the publicly available data. The only thing we do know is that vaccinated people have been infected, which is consistent with international data. We also know that the infected vaccinated people are not sick. Which while this is a low sample size it is still consistent with international data. 

[Clueless Northman]

Thankfully, I've seen very few reports of people getting really bad reactions to both shots. It's either 1st or 2nd that hits you quite hard, but the other is usually bearable or even smooth-sailing.

Count me in the "2nd Moderna shot hurts" side. 1st one, my shoulder was hurting a bit for 2 days then it went away. 2nd one shoulder hurt more and more for 10 hours then it went away faster than that, but on the other hand when I was at peak hurting shoulder, fever hit at 39 and stayed there for full 24h, then all melted away. 2nd shot was definitely worse, worse vaccine reaction I can remember (luckily, I don't remember my first ones when I was a toddler), but side-effects didn't last as long as 1st one.

Of course, all this is purely anecdotal and has no statistical significance. Hopefully, Lessthanluke won't even notice 2nd shot.

[HoodedCrow]

Second shot of phizer was worse, but I was glad that my immune system was working it Hurrah!

[The Anti-Targ]

My wife has had 2x Pfizer, I am still waiting for my second. Her second shot was worse than her first. But even the second reaction was pretty mild. Sorer shoulder and a decent sized patch of redness around the injection site. But that was about it.

[drawkcabi]

This is interesting to hear about these reactions some of you have experienced.

I got my first shot of the Moderna end of May and my second shot end of June. Aside from a sore spot in my arm for a couple days each time no other reactions whatsoever. 

I regularly get flu shots too and I think I remember only once having a noticeable reaction aside from the sore arm.

Maybe it's because I've got so many aches and pains from other things and I've dealt with a temperamental stomach all my life I'm used to it regularly feeling upset or cramped that any side effects were totally masked by all that or I actually got a score in the "win column" when it comes to not having averse effects from vaccines.

[Altherion]

30 minutes ago, drawkcabi said:

Maybe it's because I've got so many aches and pains from other things and I've dealt with a temperamental stomach all my life I'm used to it regularly feeling upset or cramped that any side effects were totally masked by all that or I actually got a score in the "win column" when it comes to not having averse effects from vaccines.

I think it's the latter. My reaction to the first Pfizer shot was just a sore arm, but the second one was unmistakable: I simply could not get up on the morning after. I mean this quite literally: I tried getting up to get a drink and my vision started turning black so I decided to lie back down. It did go away after a few hours and I was more or less fine the next day.

[drawkcabi]

5 hours ago, HoodedCrow said:

Chats:) You use ivermectin on your skin for a well researched purpose. And it works for you:)))  I have a rule, don’t eat your skin cream, unless there is a good reason. 

This totally brought up from memory from the sitcom "Fraiser", when Daphne's brother was staying with them and trying Fraiser's patience...

"Simon put my $65 apricot skin polish on his muffin!"

[Prince of the North]

3 hours ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

I second that rule

Chataya, apropo of not much, I am with you in Rosacea solidarity! 

[The Anti-Targ]

No new cases in Wellington today. I think that's the first time there have been no new cases since the first Wellington case was reported. So that's a good sign that all cases are contained within the households of the first few cases. Auckland has another 1 day high with 70 new cases. So the peak has not been reached there yet. Time to start being a little bit concerned about containment because we should start to see daily cases start to decrease. Today should be the peak if people are doing what they should be in the lockdown.

[Filippa Eilhart]

for me the 2nd Pfizer shot was just marginally worse than the 1st. After the 1st I only had a sore arm, after the 2nd I also had body aches for about 2 hours. But that's all.

[rotting sea cow]

6 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

No new cases in Wellington today. I think that's the first time there have been no new cases since the first Wellington case was reported. So that's a good sign that all cases are contained within the households of the first few cases. Auckland has another 1 day high with 70 new cases. So the peak has not been reached there yet. Time to start being a little bit concerned about containment because we should start to see daily cases start to decrease. Today should be the peak if people are doing what they should be in the lockdown.

Is there a word regarding who are the infected and where is happening? From what we have seen around the world, once the virus start to circulate among the most socially disadvantaged members of the society, it gets very difficult to control without going full China in terms of respect for the people.

 

[rotting sea cow]

1 hour ago, Filippa Eilhart said:

for me the 2nd Pfizer shot was just marginally worse than the 1st. After the 1st I only had a sore arm, after the 2nd I also had body aches for about 2 hours. But that's all.

I didn't have much reactions with either dose. Some arm pain, some headache, maybe a bit of fever, but the first dose left me for weeks very tired, with bad mood and with difficulties to concentrate. It weirdly ended some days after the second.

[rotting sea cow]

Last post for today :-)

Now on the subject of vaccine vs infection in terms of immune protection.

Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine—but no infection parties, please  (sciencemag.org)

 

[Spockydog]

This thread is fucking wild. How can people be so stupid? Surely this is actual Darwinism in action.

[RhaenysBee]

We have gone from 100ish to 190ish cases / day in the past three days. :/ 

[The Anti-Targ]

2 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

Is there a word regarding who are the infected and where is happening? From what we have seen around the world, once the virus start to circulate among the most socially disadvantaged members of the society, it gets very difficult to control without going full China in terms of respect for the people.

 

Not exactly. There is a cluster in South Auckland, which as a whole is more socially disadvantaged that other parts of Auckland, but there isn't anything like crowded slums. So Isolation in homes, even somewhat overcrowded homes can still work. We had such clusters in previous outbreaks and we squashed it. Delta is different, but it is not so different that if you isolate the infectious and potentially infections you will still be able to eliminate it. It's just that any laxity in isolation with Delta is far more dangerous and more likely to mean it gets out of control.

I think the public mood to push through and eliminate will increase if daily cases in Auckland start going down. If you see the measures being effective you will keep going. If you see the measures having no effect you will resist keeping them up. The next 3 or 4 days are crucial. The government has decided to loosen the lockdown a bit (basically lockdown but you can go and buy contactless take out - drive thru / pick up at the door / delivery) for the whole country South of Auckland on Wednesday. But Auckland likely to stay in full lockdown for 2 more weeks. This at least will feel like progress. Though I think the people in the South Island will be chomping at the bit to have lockdown eased even further.