polishgenius Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 2 hours ago, BigFatCoward said: I know he's had some stick re some anti trans remarks, has what he said been overblown? Doesn't seem like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conflicting Thought Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 10 hours ago, VigoTheCarpathian said: The final Chapelle Netflix special “The Closer” is pretty fantastic - I thought some of the earlier ones were a little uneven, but now I want to return and watch therm back to back. What do you think about the horrible transphobia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigoTheCarpathian Posted October 9, 2021 Author Share Posted October 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Conflicting Thought said: What do you think about the horrible transphobia? Your mileage may vary - a lot of the material is about intersections of race and sex and LGBTQ, and his experience. I don’t agree with 100% of what he says, but there’s a lot of things I don’t feel qualified to have an opinion on. The closing 10 minutes are about a trans comedian he knew committing suicide after getting dragged on Twitter, and a trust fund he set up for her daughter, which I’ve not seen any coverage of in the press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kungtotte Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 2 hours ago, VigoTheCarpathian said: Your mileage may vary - a lot of the material is about intersections of race and sex and LGBTQ, and his experience. I don’t agree with 100% of what he says, but there’s a lot of things I don’t feel qualified to have an opinion on. The closing 10 minutes are about a trans comedian he knew committing suicide after getting dragged on Twitter, and a trust fund he set up for her daughter, which I’ve not seen any coverage of in the press. I think highly relevant to this discussion is that she got dragged on Twitter for standing up for Chappelle against the hate from the trans community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 14 minutes ago, kungtotte said: I think highly relevant to this discussion is that she got dragged on Twitter for standing up for Chappelle against the hate from the trans community. That's alright then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigoTheCarpathian Posted October 9, 2021 Author Share Posted October 9, 2021 21 minutes ago, kungtotte said: I think highly relevant to this discussion is that she got dragged on Twitter for standing up for Chappelle against the hate from the trans community. Yes, this is true. I thought it was an open heart discussion about the effects of his comedy in the real world (well, he went for jokes in there too, so it’s not all apologizing or accusations), and it had a lot more nuance than “horrible transphobia”. I again stress his opinions are not my own, and I don’t have any sense that he was trying to convert people to his “side”. Also relevant that he went meta about all of the rest of his specials (which really vary in tone and quality) and say that if there’s anything he’s been speaking out about, it’s white people. But that does not get the press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kungtotte Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 15 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said: That's alright then? No, but since this discussion is about whether or not Dave Chappelle is transphobic (or his work is), I think it's relevant to point out that the trans woman he talks about in his set took her life while being caught in a shitstorm on Twitter for standing up for Chappelle as not being transphobic. So he's not using it as a "I knew a trans person so therefore this is okay" form of defense. Also he makes sure to highlight that he doesn't know whether the shitstorm influenced her decision to kill herself, so he's not laying the blame for the suicide at their feet either. Several times throughout this latest special he points out that a lot of his most vocal critics don't seem to have actually watched the entirety of his sets, and rarely possess any kind of nuanced perspective, which I think is also worth being included in the discussion because I agree with him on the latter part at least. For example he's catching a lot of flak now over his statement that he is "Team TERF", and completely excluded from that is that he prefixed this statement with his understanding/definition of the term which is someone who believes in the biological realities of male versus female reproductive systems. I don't think that definition is particularly accurate, but nobody is challenging him on that definition and instead focus on him saying he's "Team TERF" and they run with that. One of the big standout points of the whole show for me is in the opening bit where he talks about rapper Dababy and his awful remarks. He talks about how Dababy shot and killed some guy in a Walmart but that does not affect his career at all, but now he's in big trouble. Like Chappelle says, what kind of society are we living in where it's okay to murder someone but you can't hurt someone's feelings? But again like Vigo says, that stuff does not get the press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conflicting Thought Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 Meh, he lliterally said he is a terf, defended j.K rowling, defended dababy, defended kevin hart, missgendered trans people, etc. Hey but i guess all of taht are just jokes, man. He has a trans friend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 I think people need to watch it for themselves, because the set is very easy to take out of context. That last half of the set builds up on a lot of things and these lines that are taken out of context are building on things already stated earlier or contextualized by a turn later on. In particular he returns more than once to his joke about a hypothetical movie called "Space Jews", which ultimately is a comment about how oppressed people can themselves become oppressors (referring, obviously, to the Israel-Palestine situation, but also looping in the historical black slaveholders in South Carolina and contemporaneously his sense that trans activists are throwing the baby (or DaBaby, whoever that is -- I genuinely don't know) out with the bathwater in trying to police speech through attacks on people's careers and livelihood.) His "I'm Team TERF" thing was defining "TERF" as someone who recognizes that everyone on this planet has passed through a uterus (technically, he said between a woman's legs, but *ahem* some of us were born by C-section!), which is obviously not what a TERF is alleged to be, since everyone in the world would then be a TERF, but he was making a joke and it was a pretty off-handed remark. I do think his statement about "gender is a fact" is not quite the same thing as what he intends to say (he's speaking about sex, given his example regarding birth.) But regardless, he says transwomen are women in the set, as well, as I recall. Mostly he just wants people to show empathy to everyone else, and to believe, as Daphne Dorman told him and a crowd at a comedy club, that they are having a human experience and are just trying to get through it. It was clearly something that stuck with Chappelle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conflicting Thought Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 1 minute ago, kungtotte said: He talks about how Dababy shot and killed some guy in a Walmart but that does not affect his career at all, but now he's in big trouble Is this whataboutism? He killed someone in self defense, right? Like is the point that people critizicing dababy are hypocrites or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 7 minutes ago, Conflicting Thought said: He killed someone in self defense, right? He alleged it, apparently, but the reason the DA dropped the case was that an eye witness refused to testify. So it remains a question mark whether it was in fact self defense or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigoTheCarpathian Posted October 9, 2021 Author Share Posted October 9, 2021 9 minutes ago, Conflicting Thought said: Is this whataboutism? He killed someone in self defense, right? Like is the point that people critizicing dababy are hypocrites or something? No, per the context of the jokes, it says something about a white society where you can kill a black person and suffer no career damage, but saying anti-LGBTQ words gets you in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kungtotte Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 7 minutes ago, Conflicting Thought said: Meh, he lliterally said he is a terf, defended j.K rowling, defended dababy, defended kevin hart, missgendered trans people, etc. Hey but i guess all of taht are just jokes, man. He has a trans friend! Did you really see the whole show? He didn't defend Dababy for either of his actions (shooting someone, or the awful things he said), but he thinks it's strange how you can kill someone and it doesn't affect your career but you say the wrong things and you get cancelled. I do too, for that matter. I don't know that you should be able to be a successful artist if you go around shooting people, why wasn't he cancelled over that? I also pointed out in my previous reply the nuance that is missing from the point about him exclaiming to be "team TERF". Posts like yours are somewhat making Chappelle's point for him; people aren't actually listening to the whole show before kicking off and even if they do sit through the whole thing there's no nuance at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigoTheCarpathian Posted October 9, 2021 Author Share Posted October 9, 2021 4 minutes ago, kungtotte said: Posts like yours are somewhat making Chappelle's point for him; people aren't actually listening to the whole show before kicking off and even if they do sit through the whole thing there's no nuance at all. To quote, “I said ‘Go back to the comments section, *****, this is real life!’, and I drove off” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Smikes Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 On 10/9/2021 at 1:00 PM, kungtotte said: Several times throughout this latest special he points out that a lot of his most vocal critics don't seem to have actually watched the entirety of his sets, and rarely possess any kind of nuanced perspective, which I think is also worth being included in the discussion because I agree with him on the latter part at least. For example he's catching a lot of flak now over his statement that he is "Team TERF", and completely excluded from that is that he prefixed this statement with his understanding/definition of the term which is someone who believes in the biological realities of male versus female reproductive systems. I don't think that definition is particularly accurate, but nobody is challenging him on that definition and instead focus on him saying he's "Team TERF" and they run with that. It seems pointless to debate whether terms of abuse are accurate. But he's basically saying he stands with Rowling. And is that not why Rowling was attacked as a TERF and a transphobe? For saying that sex is real? Anyhow, this whole debate is mired in the presupposition that people have the right to police the definitions others employ, an idea I completely oppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 22 hours ago, VigoTheCarpathian said: No, per the context of the jokes, it says something about a white society where you can kill a black person and suffer no career damage, but saying anti-LGBTQ words gets you in trouble. This is ultimately the point he was trying to make. However, he clearly demonstrates that he doesn't actually understand why comparing the two subjects is a giant mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Smikes Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 On 10/9/2021 at 1:01 PM, Ran said: But regardless, he says transwomen are women in the set, as well, as I recall. Words are flexible enough that they can mean different things in different contexts. Nobody knows that better than a comedian. Compelled speech and compelled definitions are still a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 So pricky Ricky has released a new transphobia special, because for some fucking reason, standup comedy is the frontline of this particular battle of the culture war. It's proper baffling that someone whose self-identity is so about being a free-thinking atheist is willing to throw in with the conservative pricks behind this campaign but... At least he's being called out for it. I learned of this one today: it's too angry to be properly funny to be honest but it's still satisfying to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 The least funny comedian on the planet criticising the second least funny comedian is a real low Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HouseBastard Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 36 minutes ago, polishgenius said: I couldn't call that "satisfying to hear", more like extremely obnoxious. I don't find Gervais funny and don't listen to his content so I can't offer an opinion of him but I am a fan of Dave Chappelle and have seen all of his specials. I never got the impression that he hated any group and if recognizing the biological fact that humans are a sexually dimorphic species makes someone a transphobe then the majority of the world is transphobic. My opinion is be whoever/whatever you want to be and allow others the respect and freedom to do the same. You can identify as a three-toed sloth all you want and I am free to think you are crazy for doing so. As long as neither of us force their beliefs on the other then there is no reason for conflict, just live and let live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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