Football: Return of the CR7

[baxus]

Oh boy, how I'd love to see clubs finally standing up to FIFA. Hopefully, this will either trigger it or at least speed it along.

[Consigliere]

 

[Mark Antony]

International breaks have been such a joke the last year and a half but this is next level 

[BigFatCoward]

I'm sure Brazil tried to call up Joelinton for this match and we refused to release him. We should be punished with an extended ban. 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

12 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

I'm sure Brazil tried to call up Joelinton for this match and we refused to release him. We should be punished with an extended ban. 

Yeah, but he was allowed to play the Olympics, so that has bought you some good will with the Brazilian FA. This is really down to the proverbial horse trading.

[Spockydog]

5 hours ago, Consigliere said:

 

They should just play them and tell FIFA and Brazil to go fuck themselves. 

[Consigliere]

Kane with a fucking screamer.

[Winterfell is Burning]

It was inevitable FIFA would do this, otherwise all clubs would pull that off. That said, the current system- international breaks every month (and here in Brazil they don't even stop the league), stupid Nations League and Copa América evey year,  African Nations in the middle of European season, etc, is unsustainable. And now Fifa is pushing for a WC every two years, which would break football permanently.    

[Iskaral Pust]

I’m sick of FIFA in general but perhaps the only way out of this is for the players to retire from international football, or for the club competitions to refuse FIFA or the national FAs the authority to levy suspensions in club competitions.  FIFA doesn’t own the PL, and the CL can easily be re-formed without UEFA.  Just separate club and international football completely.

The various national FAs are beholden to FIFA for their funding and very existence, and somehow they still have disciplinary power over the club competitions.  That doesn’t make any sense for the clubs to accept any longer.

[Winterfell is Burning]

The problem is that requires too much unity between clubs in Europe and even worldwide, plus we don't know the fine print of all the contracts signed.

To me, the obvious solution would be end all those mid-season breaks and end the season earlier, with the last month or two fully dedicated to international competitions and friendlies. No interruptions mid league, less risk of players missing key games to injuries, while at the same time allowing international teams to not only have the spotlight when it's their turn, but also actually becoming teams due to more time together, rather than being a collection of randomly assembled players for those countries that don't have the luxury of picking their entire team out of two or three clubs.

[mormont]

FIFA and UEFA have their problems but I'm not sure a game run entirely by the clubs would be any sort of improvement.

If you happen to be a fan of a big club - and almost everyone who posts regularly in this thread is - the idea might be appealing to you personally. But it won't do much for grassroots football, player burnout or fan interests, and it certainly won't reduce overexposure, summer tournaments every year and the number of meaningless games on the calendar. It's just that those will be run by and for the big clubs and will cost more to attend and watch.

[baxus]

9 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

I’m sick of FIFA in general but perhaps the only way out of this is for the players to retire from international football, or for the club competitions to refuse FIFA or the national FAs the authority to levy suspensions in club competitions.  FIFA doesn’t own the PL, and the CL can easily be re-formed without UEFA.  Just separate club and international football completely.

The various national FAs are beholden to FIFA for their funding and very existence, and somehow they still have disciplinary power over the club competitions.  That doesn’t make any sense for the clubs to accept any longer.

Remember when Matip said he is retiring from international football and he was still banned from playing for Liverpool during African Cup of Nations?

[Iskaral Pust]

4 hours ago, baxus said:

Remember when Matip said he is retiring from international football and he was still banned from playing for Liverpool during African Cup of Nations?

He had to say it in writing, not just verbally.  They punished him on a technical while they still could.

I agree with @Winterfell is Burning for a possible alternative.  It would at least remove the choppy interruptions which help neither club nor country.

@mormont it’s the big clubs who nurture, develop, pay and keep fit all of the star players who draw fans to the big international tournaments.  It’s not like many watch the Olympic football tournament.  Smaller clubs in lower leagues get the benefit of FA support and infrastructure without any of the costs to their players.  The big clubs endure the interruptions, injuries, burnout and COVID quarantines.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

10 hours ago, mormont said:

FIFA and UEFA have their problems but I'm not sure a game run entirely by the clubs would be any sort of improvement.

If you happen to be a fan of a big club - and almost everyone who posts regularly in this thread is - the idea might be appealing to you personally. But it won't do much for grassroots football, player burnout or fan interests, and it certainly won't reduce overexposure, summer tournaments every year and the number of meaningless games on the calendar. It's just that those will be run by and for the big clubs and will cost more to attend and watch.

Pretty much this.

4 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

 it’s the big clubs who nurture, develop, pay and keep fit all of the star players who draw fans to the big international tournaments.  It’s not like many watch the Olympic football tournament.  Smaller clubs in lower leagues get the benefit of FA support and infrastructure without any of the costs to their players.  The big clubs endure the interruptions, injuries, burnout and COVID quarantines.

The hell that is being and supporting a big club. Oh the horror

 

Either way, UEFA has sided with the clubs, assuming they won't back down (which I consider unlikely). What's FIFA gonna do? Declare UEFA, its clubs, and the players playing in Europe rogue? That means playing the WC without the best players, and the vast majority of WC winning nations, and effectively watch Brazil and Argentina trading blows over a devalued World Cup. There won't be a mass exodus of footballers from Europe to other places just to play at a FIFA tournament every two years. Too put drastically, playing for the clubs in Europe is their job, while representing their Nation is more of a hobby. Their full time job as players in Europe puts bread on their table and millions in their bank account.

I don't know about the other boarders, but I am a football fan of my club, not my nation. I don't fly flags during World Cups or any such shit. I watch it, because it's football, (and because it's fun to see England fail), but my heart is really not into it, the same way as when I watch my club play.

So I fail to see how FIFA has any leverage whatsoever there.

[BigFatCoward]

19 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

 

I don't know about the other boarders, but I am a football fan of my club, not my nation. I don't fly flags during World Cups or any such shit. I watch it, because it's football, (and because it's fun to see England fail), but my heart is really not into it, the same way as when I watch my club play.

So I fail to see how FIFA has any leverage whatsoever there.

Newcastle win carabao Cup >>>>>>England win World Cup. 

[baxus]

There's one thing to consider though, and that's players themselves.

I'm sure most of them would love nothing more than winning the title or CL with their childhood club, but most of them don't get to play for their childhood club or at least not for their whole career. On the other hand, majority of them doesn't switch national teams and all of them do grow up dreaming of winning a continental championship or the World Cup with their national team. 

[Winterfell is Burning]

Passion for your national team being bigger or smaller varies a lot from country to country. Of course in England is smaller because you never win anything and usually crash out of tournaments in humiliating ways.

That said, here in Brazil, the days of people preferring the Seleção over their clubs or at least liking them as much are gone. A mix of shameless corruption involved, frustrating defeats and the 7-1 humiliation,  the fact that pre-pandemic Brazil rarely played at home, and the fact that the CBF doesn't suspend the national tournaments during Brazil's international games, meaning if your team is doing well, you're punished by losing your best players did it.

In recent years, there's also the fact that because of the calendar (18 games in qualifiers plus UEFA inventing the Nations League), Brazil rarely plays anyone other than South American teams, all of which, apart from Argentina, are much inferior (in part because pretty much all of them declined to where they were, say, in the 2014 WC), so Brazil can win even when they are playing pretty badly, which is what's happening- Brazil won 8 in 8 and no one cares or enjoys it.

  

2 minutes ago, baxus said:

There's one thing to consider though, and that's players themselves.

I'm sure most of them would love nothing more than winning the title or CL with their childhood club, but most of them don't get to play for their childhood club or at least not for their whole career. On the other hand, majority of them doesn't switch national teams and all of them do grow up dreaming of winning a continental championship or the World Cup with their national team. 

True, and there's the factor that winning a WC might be an impossible dream if you are born in say, Iran, but not in Brazil, France, Argentina, Spain, etc. Meanwhile, if you're not playing in one of Chelsea, City, Bayern, Liverpool, PSG, Real Madrid, and maybe one or two others (it would be Barcelona before this year), you'll never win the CL.

 

[mormont]

23 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

 

@mormont it’s the big clubs who nurture, develop, pay and keep fit all of the star players who draw fans to the big international tournaments.  It’s not like many watch the Olympic football tournament.  Smaller clubs in lower leagues get the benefit of FA support and infrastructure without any of the costs to their players.  The big clubs endure the interruptions, injuries, burnout and COVID quarantines.

Football has many issues. Smaller clubs need more support. Corruption in FIFA and UEFA needs to be properly addressed. Player welfare is a huge problem, for both star players and those in the lower leagues. Player development is improving in most countries but this needs to be done in ways that don't exploit the young players who don't make it in the big academies. Income distribution, financial sustainability, mental health, prejudice in the game. The list goes on and on.

The one thing that all of these diverse and urgent issues have in common is that, left to their own devices, the big clubs aren't going to fix a single one of them.

[Hereward]

Not me, I’m far, far more emotionally invested in a World Cup, or even a European Championship, than I have ever been for a club match. The only thing to compare would have been the FA Cup, back when it was the highlight of the club season as the only match to be shown live and the only match at Wembley. It was really special then.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

4 hours ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

True, and there's the factor that winning a WC might be an impossible dream if you are born in say, Iran, but not in Brazil, France, Argentina, Spain, etc. Meanwhile, if you're not playing in one of Chelsea, City, Bayern, Liverpool, PSG, Real Madrid, and maybe one or two others (it would be Barcelona before this year), you'll never win the CL.

Well, you have that odd team winning the CL once every two decades or so, before their team gets picked apart (likesay Ajax 1995, or Porto 2004). As for the World Cup, it will lose quite a bit of it's appeal if you increase its number. Right now, you get 2, maybe 3 shots in your career to play in it, and win it.  Yes, there are a handful of players who played in four World Cups, but that's more of an exception than the rule.