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US Politics: Rural Southernification… (thanks Zorral)


Ser Scot A Ellison

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59 minutes ago, Zorral said:

There is no common ground between the rest of us and those who are actively working to overthrow the US government, and will do it by every violent means at their disposal.  You saw how successfully negotiation via 'common ground' revealed itself to be between those who came with automatic weapons, gallows, knives, handcuffs, and other death dealing instruments, who violented broke windows and doors to enter the Capitol, who slithered throughout calling for Nanceeeee and AOC to 'come out and play,' with the intention, at the very least, to terrify the women, and certainly have them believe torture, rape and murder were the goal.  And the rethuglicans in the congress did nothing and even threatened them too.

You see how much successful negotiation there can be between lynch mobs having a good holiday torturing, killing and burning African Americans, which Their Ilks have been doing since the 17th century.  You see how much useful negotiation there is when cops break into a sleeping person's bedroom and shoot him / her.  Such happy negotiation between people who come to an LGBT dance club and shoot people down randomly in cold blood, with, by golly the intent to shoot to kill. And on and on and on.

What sort of arrogance afflicts a person, who names him/her/their self half after autocratic torturing Russian rulers and half after the designation of the CSA army, fighting to universalize slavery, who further claims not to be a citizen of the USA, that such an Ilk feels entitled to whine about mean liburrrrels/dems who don't kindly and compassionately give their time to the violent, cruel, treasonous rethuglicans? 

 These 'arguments' for respect and sympathy to rethuglicans  are consciously made in bad faith, and everyone knows it, because the proof is there, in the newspapers, every single day.

 

On a logical level I get Republicans in the South (I in no way agree with them). They were taught from birth do be this way. A remnant of the Civil War.

Apparently most people don't have the mental capacity to, even as an adult to ask themselves, "What do I believe and why do I believe it". Even if what they believe is truly terrible, and the only reason they believe it is because, "Mommy and Daddy told me so growing up!".

But what about Republicans in the rest of the country? Aren't you aware your Southern comrades in arms only vote the way they do is because their parents told them, "Fuck Black People / Fuck the LGBTQ Community / Fuck Mexicans / Fuck Democrats / Fuck pretty much anyone who isn't exactly like me"?

Is your belief that Republicans will give you lower taxes really more important to you than the rights of millions of your fellow citizens?

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20 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

This is just a wild guess, but I am going to assume the lax gun laws and the open carry were passed in Texas so that if there was social unrest in the streets and people got gunned down, Abbott and his ilk could just throw their hands up in the air and say “we never thought the good folk of Texas could do such a thing” or “the good folk of Texas were just protecting themselves”, depending on the circumstances. And they’ll say it with a straight face.

Years ago on this board (I joined 10 years ago and spent the first year north of the wall, so maybe 8 or 9 years ago) I said in a Gen Chat post that I was afraid to drive in the US because I had an deep fear that if I made a mistake I might get shot. I was laughed at and sneered at. Told I was crazy. I have now reached the point where a vacation in the US post-pandemic is almost completely out of the question ever again. I know I’m not a typical Canadian, people who go to Florida or Arizona for the winter still went this past winter with a pandemic going on. Or maybe they’re the weird ones.

It’s like I always had concerns before, but Trump opened this Pandora’s box and let out horrible things that had been kept under lock and key before. Well, at least Pandora had hope still at the bottom of the box.

Hey! You can always come visit me in Shreveport! Do you like to gamble or eat Jambalaya or Gumbo or Etouffee?

I'll protect you from the other psychos :thumbsup:.

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3 hours ago, A True Kaniggit said:

On a logical level I get Republicans in the South (I in no way agree with them).

The miserable tragedy about this continued fight for white supremacy and anti-democracy is there is so much about the South that is truly wonderful -- or was.  I've lived -- meaning with a job, a home, friends, buying groceries, cooking meals, etc. -- in more than a single region of the South, and  so much of it, not the least the people among whom we worked and socialized (who were not white supremacists, etc., but native southerners for several generations) is something I'm grateful to have as part of my formation experiences -- and that includes Texas too.  But so much of it now, is unlivable is you aren't one of Them, and even They are miserable.

Friends all over the South and Texas are looking for ways to move out -- and some already have.

And gosh, you know, driving through Maine and seeing confederate flags is as miserable a feeling as it is to see them in Glasgow or -- well, Russia and parts of Ukraine (on the internet -- I've never been to Russia or Ukraine.

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6 hours ago, Zorral said:

There is no common ground between the rest of us and those who are actively working to overthrow the US government, and will do it by every violent means at their disposal.  You saw how successfully negotiation via 'common ground' revealed itself to be between those who came with automatic weapons, gallows, knives, handcuffs, and other death dealing instruments, who violented broke windows and doors to enter the Capitol, who slithered throughout calling for Nanceeeee and AOC to 'come out and play,' with the intention, at the very least, to terrify the women, and certainly have them believe torture, rape and murder were the goal.  And the rethuglicans in the congress did nothing and even threatened them too.

You see how much successful negotiation there can be between lynch mobs having a good holiday torturing, killing and burning African Americans, which Their Ilks have been doing since the 17th century.  You see how much useful negotiation there is when cops break into a sleeping person's bedroom and shoot him / her.  Such happy negotiation between people who come to an LGBT dance club and shoot people down randomly in cold blood, with, by golly the intent to shoot to kill. And on and on and on.

What sort of arrogance afflicts a person, who names him/her/their self half after autocratic torturing Russian rulers and half after the designation of the CSA army, fighting to universalize slavery, who further claims not to be a citizen of the USA, that such an Ilk feels entitled to whine about mean liburrrrels/dems who don't kindly and compassionately give their time to the violent, cruel, treasonous rethuglicans? 

 These 'arguments' for respect and sympathy to rethuglicans  are consciously made in bad faith, and everyone knows it, because the proof is there, in the newspapers, every single day.

 

Er, who had automatic weapons at the Capitol?  Or was it a fully automatic fire extinguisher that caused Officer Sitnick to have a stroke the following day?

And Republicans have gone around lynching African Americans since the 1600's?  I don't think that's even in a People's History of the United States.  For that matter was the guy who shot up the Pulse nightclub a Lincoln sort of Republican, a Reagan sort of Republican, or a Trump sort of Republican?  And why?  Show your work.

Though I suppose if you actually think that newspapers are the arbiters of truth, maybe a lot of that ridiculous rant makes some sort of internal sense.  Personally, when it comes to the media, when people like the Washington Post say claim their mission statement to be "Democracy Dies in Darkness," I believe them.  Mass media is owned and operated by the .1%.  I'd advise some skepticism there.

5 hours ago, A True Kaniggit said:

On a logical level I get Republicans in the South (I in no way agree with them). They were taught from birth do be this way. A remnant of the Civil War.

Apparently most people don't have the mental capacity to, even as an adult to ask themselves, "What do I believe and why do I believe it". Even if what they believe is truly terrible, and the only reason they believe it is because, "Mommy and Daddy told me so growing up!".

But what about Republicans in the rest of the country? Aren't you aware your Southern comrades in arms only vote the way they do is because their parents told them, "Fuck Black People / Fuck the LGBTQ Community / Fuck Mexicans / Fuck Democrats / Fuck pretty much anyone who isn't exactly like me"?

Is your belief that Republicans will give you lower taxes really more important to you than the rights of millions of your fellow citizens?

I submit that if you think the Declaration of Independence contains a lot of good ideas for a society to aspire towards, and that the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments are good ideas, then you probably are going to align more with the Republicans than the Democrats.  (Hell, what did Republicans and Democrats at the time think?)  Though really a pox on both their houses, as they each engage in a kabuki style struggle against the other while conspiring to loot the taxpayers for their personal benefits.

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44 minutes ago, mcbigski said:

I submit that if you think the Declaration of Independence contains a lot of good ideas for a society to aspire towards, and that the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments are good ideas, then you probably are going to align more with the Republicans than the Democrats.  (Hell, what did Republicans and Democrats at the time think?)  Though really a pox on both their houses, as they each engage in a kabuki style struggle against the other while conspiring to loot the taxpayers for their personal benefits.

Lol. You're still at this shit in a deluded attempt to make yourself feel better.

The Southern states fought a fucking war to own other human beings.

The Southern States were so pissed when they lost they voted Democrat for a 100 fucking years.

ElectoralCollege1960.svg

Until the Civil Rights bill of 1964 was passed by Democrat Johnson, racist scumbag he may have been.

ElectoralCollege1964.svg

 

And the former confederate states were so pissed they started switching to Republican. Do you not notice that huge flip?

 

 

Except for the time they voted for Wallace. That POS. 1968

 

 

ElectoralCollege1968.svg

 

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt you know who Wallace is.

And the former Confederacy has voted Republican in the 60 years since then.

 How is this not obvious? You don't even need to be able to read to understand this. Just look at pictures.

Edit: Ugh. I don't think the pictures made it through.

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1 hour ago, mcbigski said:

Er, who had automatic weapons at the Capitol?  Or was it a fully automatic fire extinguisher that caused Officer Sitnick to have a stroke the following day?

And Republicans have gone around lynching African Americans since the 1600's?  I don't think that's even in a People's History of the United States.  For that matter was the guy who shot up the Pulse nightclub a Lincoln sort of Republican, a Reagan sort of Republican, or a Trump sort of Republican?  And why?  Show your work.

Though I suppose if you actually think that newspapers are the arbiters of truth, maybe a lot of that ridiculous rant makes some sort of internal sense.  Personally, when it comes to the media, when people like the Washington Post say claim their mission statement to be "Democracy Dies in Darkness," I believe them.  Mass media is owned and operated by the .1%.  I'd advise some skepticism there.

I submit that if you think the Declaration of Independence contains a lot of good ideas for a society to aspire towards, and that the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments are good ideas, then you probably are going to align more with the Republicans than the Democrats.  (Hell, what did Republicans and Democrats at the time think?)  Though really a pox on both their houses, as they each engage in a kabuki style struggle against the other while conspiring to loot the taxpayers for their personal benefits.

Please explain to me (share your work) what, in the Declaration of Independence, aligns to Republicans. It's a list of grievances against the King.

Also, I Googled "capitol riots" and clicked on images, and I found this:

https://media.vanityfair.com/photos/5e98d490ac720b00089fd0d4/master/w_2560%2Cc_limit/GettyImages-1210050182.jpg

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1 hour ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Lol. You're still at this shit in a deluded attempt to make yourself feel better.

The Southern states fought a fucking war to own other human beings.

The Southern States were so pissed when they lost they voted Democrat for a 100 fucking years.

ElectoralCollege1960.svg

Until the Civil Rights bill of 1964 was passed by Democrat Johnson, racist scumbag he may have been.

ElectoralCollege1964.svg

 

And the former confederate states were so pissed they started switching to Republican. Do you not notice that huge flip?

 

 

Except for the time they voted for Wallace. That POS. 1968

 

 

ElectoralCollege1968.svg

 

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt you know who Wallace is.

And the former Confederacy has voted Republican in the 60 years since then.

 How is this not obvious? You don't even need to be able to read to understand this. Just look at pictures.

Edit: Ugh. I don't think the pictures made it through.

Take a look at civil rights bills in the 60s. How many of them passed with a higher percentage of Democrats v Republicans?  Pretty sure that was 0%.  Ask your self, why did the establishment Democrats in the south for 90 years plus in the 1950s brand themselves as the DixieCrats, not the DixiePublicans?  If all the southern racists are repulicans than why wasnt there a a Dixiepublican party?  If I'm missing something here, I'm willing to reconsider,  you should consider the same.

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2 hours ago, mcbigski said:

Er, who had automatic weapons at the Capitol? 

No one. The dozens of police officers who were assaulted by the rioters are still a big deal though. And spears, and tasers, and mace, are dangerous.

2 hours ago, mcbigski said:

And Republicans have gone around lynching African Americans since the 1600's?  I don't think that's even in a People's History of the United States. 

I think Zorral was referring to social-conservatives.

2 hours ago, mcbigski said:

For that matter was the guy who shot up the Pulse nightclub a Lincoln sort of Republican, a Reagan sort of Republican, or a Trump sort of Republican?  And why?  Show your work.

There is no evidence the shooter here was republican.

2 hours ago, mcbigski said:

I submit that if you think the Declaration of Independence contains a lot of good ideas for a society to aspire towards, and that the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments are good ideas, then you probably are going to align more with the Republicans than the Democrats

The republicans literally just tried to overthrow democracy and institute a would-be dictator.

Tell me did you stop supporting Trump when he called Governors to find him votes?

Or called on Mike Pence to ignore the election result and pretend trump was the winner?

Or did you never support or stop supporting him pre-attempt to overturn the election?

6 minutes ago, mcbigski said:

Take a look at civil rights bills in the 60s. How many of them passed with a higher percentage of Democrats v Republicans?  Pretty sure that was 0%.  Ask your self, why did the establishment Democrats in the south for 90 years plus in the 1950s brand themselves as the DixieCrats, not the DixiePublicans?  If all the southern racists are repulicans than why wasnt there a a Dixiepublican party?  If I'm missing something here, I'm willing to reconsider,  you should consider the same.

Do you ever wonder why Mississippi, a state that 40 percent voted against getting rid of a part of their state constitution that banned interracial marriage in 2004 keeps voting red by wide margins?
Or any of the states that were segregation was the most brutal? 
 

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13 minutes ago, mcbigski said:

Take a look at civil rights bills in the 60s. How many of them passed with a higher percentage of Democrats v Republicans?  Pretty sure that was 0%.  Ask your self, why did the establishment Democrats in the south for 90 years plus in the 1950s brand themselves as the DixieCrats, not the DixiePublicans?  If all the southern racists are repulicans than why wasnt there a a Dixiepublican party?  If I'm missing something here, I'm willing to reconsider,  you should consider the same.

It's called political realignment. Every person who took American Politics 101/1001 could tell you this. It's not hard to understand where conservatives and liberals have stood on these issues, even if the parties they were aligned with changed. The argument you just made literally shows how little you understand about the mere basics of the subject you want to discuss. Take a break. 

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1 hour ago, The Great Unwashed said:

Well, there were literal bombs placed during the Capitol riots that (thank God) didn’t explode, but I can see why that would be an inconvenient fact to the point you’re failing to make.

Again, show your work.  There was bomb scare reported, but even that bomb scare, how far from the Capitol?  And pretty much any jerk off can put in a bomb scare.  Tell me about the physical evidence (as oppsosed to a bull shit media scare)

  Where on a satellite map was the bomb scare, and what was the follow up the last nine months from our surveillance state?  I m kind of assuming you 're all for a mostly powerful central surviellance state, but really, this sounds like almost entirely sound rather than fury.  How far until you ask yourself if the .1% narrative is actually the best for me?  

TBH we probably meet somewhere in the middle.

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33 minutes ago, mcbigski said:

Take a look at civil rights bills in the 60s. How many of them passed with a higher percentage of Democrats v Republicans?  Pretty sure that was 0%.  Ask your self, why did the establishment Democrats in the south for 90 years plus in the 1950s brand themselves as the DixieCrats, not the DixiePublicans?  If all the southern racists are repulicans than why wasnt there a a Dixiepublican party?  If I'm missing something here, I'm willing to reconsider,  you should consider the same.

What @Tywin et al. said.

Or do you think it's just a coincidence that in 2020 the area of the country that fought for slavery overwhelmingly votes Republican, while the people they wanted to enslave overwhelmingly vote Democrat. Do I need to bring up current election results for you?

You can't be that delusional.

Edit: Well I suppose you can be. Millions of Republicans are.

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Yeah parties are coalitions of voters.  Not understanding that the Democrats lost Southern Democrats - i.e. white supremacists - as part of their coalition precisely because they passed the CRA and VRA is just absurdly ignorant.  LBJ saying "we've just lost the South for a generation" upon signing the CRA may be apocryphal, but it's apocryphal because it reflects the fact the South shifted from Democratic-dominated to GOP-dominated over the next thirty years.

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23 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Or do you think it's just a coincidence that in 2020 the area of the country that fought for slavery overwhelmingly votes Republican, while the people they wanted to enslave overwhelmingly vote Democrat. Do I need to bring up current election results for you?

Let's put aside WI, GA, PN, MI, AZ. (IE the states where Biden won the Wed vote by 30+ points)

Trump improved his vote total with minorities compared to his first run for President.  So to the extent Biden has a mandate, it's for more white supremacy.  Personally, I work towards the ideal that we're all equally deserving of the same rights, but I understand from a machiavellian point of view how polarizing sub group distinctintions is effective politics.  Again, just to be clear, I'm all for judging each individual by their actions when it comes to divisive ideas.

If only the collectivists spent even a tenth of their time trying to figure out how to make communism work better, instead spending so much time making the system that's actually lifted up the oppressed fail.

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13 minutes ago, mcbigski said:

Let's put aside WI, GA, PN, MI, AZ. (IE the states where Biden won the Wed vote by 30+ points)

Trump improved his vote total with minorities compared to his first run for President.  So to the extent Biden has a mandate, it's for more white supremacy.  Personally, I work towards the ideal that we're all equally deserving of the same rights, but I understand from a machiavellian point of view how polarizing sub group distinctintions is effective politics.  Again, just to be clear, I'm all for judging each individual by their actions when it comes to divisive ideas.

If only the collectivists spent even a tenth of their time trying to figure out how to make communism work better, instead spending so much time making the system that's actually lifted up the oppressed fail.

Dude. Just stop. It's so sad.

Black citizens voted Democrat 87% for the 2020 election.

The White South? (The former Confederacy) Well I'm ashamed of my brethren.

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11 minutes ago, mcbigski said:

Trump improved his vote total with minorities compared to his first run for President.  So to the extent Biden has a mandate, it's for more white supremacy

This shows no understanding of mathematics or logic.  “71% of non white votes cast went to Biden, as opposed to 76% in 2016” (from a NR article, the most right wing source I could quick google) does not square with any of your bullshit about a white supremacy mandate.

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11 minutes ago, mcbigski said:

Trump improved his vote total with minorities compared to his first run for President.  So to the extent Biden has a mandate, it's for more white supremacy.

This is either laughably stupid or preposterously disingenuous.  Just because Biden decreased the margins doesn't change the fact he won the black vote 87/12, the hispanic vote 65/32, and the asian vote 61/34 - while Trump won the white vote 58/41.  And where did Trump do best regionally?  The South, of course, where he won 53/46, while he won the Midwest 51/47 whereas Biden won the East 58/41 and the West 57/41.

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6 minutes ago, DMC said:

This is either laughably stupid or preposterously disingenuous.  Just because Biden decreased the margins doesn't change the fact he won the black vote 87/12, the hispanic vote 65/32, and the asian vote 61/34 - while Trump won the white vote 58/41.  And where did Trump do best regionally?  The South, of course, where he won 53/46, while he won the Midwest 51/47 whereas Biden won the East 58/41 and the West 57/41.

Is minority unemployment up or down now compared to when Trump was President?  The rubber meets the road.  A guy who believes that all men are created equal is going to be better for minorities than a guy that monetizes his political power.

Don Trump Jr is a total fucking loser though.  He couldn't get a 7 figure contract to manage Ukrainian fossil fuels, or get 1.5B invested in his hedge fund (at a 2%+ annual commission), or make 7+ figures as an artist.  what a talentless hack.

Obivously Biden is the best option, because his heir is so very very talented.  And a top .01 crackhead, income wise.  But then again most crack heads that knock up strippers arent also fantastic artists, killer hedge fund managers, and petroleum export experts.  So that income must be all merit and no corruption.

Also, the implication that minority votes belong monolithically to one party is racist itself.  Minority unemployment is higher under Biden than Trump, so I suppose that team will need to beat the racism drum even harder and hope individuals dont think for themselves.

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