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Mrstrategy

How could Hoster Tully have improved the Riverlands?

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12 hours ago, Hrulj said:

How is forcing a woman to miscarry a bastard not abuse in society where such things are common. By nature of it being common. If I was Hoster I’d have killed little finger and sent Lysa out to live on the streets and see how she likes that. 
 

Is Hoster supposed to know the future and predict Littlefinger? 

I dunno, sending someone you don't trust and has a reason to dislike you into close proximity to someone who you know is a bad influence doesn't sound like a good idea.

Edited by Angel Eyes

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Jon Arryn might have wanted a wife with “ proven fertility”, and he was probably unromantic by now. As far as Stannis goes, it was tricky to let your heir have a very high status wife, if you were planning to have your own children. 

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5 minutes ago, HoodedCrow said:

Jon Arryn might have wanted a wife with “ proven fertility”, and he was probably unromantic by now.

In that case, did Hoster tell Jon Arryn about Lysa's "proven fertility"?

Edited by Angel Eyes

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On 9/4/2021 at 11:54 AM, Lord Lannister said:

You're not wrong. No one was better at that than Tywin. Yet in the end it was his bad parenting that destroyed him and all the power he spent a lifetime accumulating for his house instantly began to slip away on his death.

Seeing it through that view, you would have to include Rickard Stark. He was setting his family up for failure with Lyanna's engagement to Robert. 

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7 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Seeing it through that view, you would have to include Rickard Stark. He was setting his family up for failure with Lyanna's engagement to Robert. 

Wait, why? Robert had nothing to do with the downfall of the Starks. If anything, it was Rhaegar, Lyanna, and Brandon who did that.

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15 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Seeing it through that view, you would have to include Rickard Stark. He was setting his family up for failure with Lyanna's engagement to Robert. 

Possibly. We really don't know enough about Rickard. Mainly if he would've forced Lyanna to wed Robert against her will. As @James Steller pointed out, the Rhaegar and Lyanna relationship, how they conducted it and Brandon's foolish response to it is what caused most of the problems for House Stark during that time period.

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46 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

Possibly. We really don't know enough about Rickard. Mainly if he would've forced Lyanna to wed Robert against her will. As @James Steller pointed out, the Rhaegar and Lyanna relationship, how they conducted it and Brandon's foolish response to it is what caused most of the problems for House Stark during that time period.

Lyanna was already resentful of the match due to Robert's philandering behavior (which really makes her look like a hypocrite if she went with Rhaegar willingly). There's a good chance she would have wound up like Cersei had she married Robert.

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On 9/3/2021 at 1:41 PM, Canon Claude said:

Investing in more fortified bridges would be something worth considering. I don’t get why the Freys’ lucrative toll strategy wasn’t replicated by more houses. Ferries are fine, but they aren’t as effective or safe as a decent well kept bridge. That means more traders, and as long as the toll keepers aren’t corrupt, then you’ve got a good thing going. Plus then you have ready fortifications to guard the rivers in case the Riverlands is invaded again.

This.   Riverrun sits at the conflux of rivers.  It should have flowered into a fabulous mercantile city.  Also, the Tullys should have owned a veritable armada of trading boats with entrepots and ports up and down the entire network.    

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2 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

There's a good chance she would have wound up like Cersei had she married Robert.

We can’t prove or disprove what Lyanna would have done since we don’t know much about her at all. Pointless to claim one way or the other.

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On 9/3/2021 at 10:37 AM, Mrstrategy said:

How could Hoster Tully had improved the Riverlands when he was was lord paramount of Riverlands  making them more powerful economically and militarily?

He married his daughters to the lords of the North and Vale( Intended to marry Jamie as Heir to the Westerlands) .  The only other thing he could have done honestly was betroth Edmure to Cersei 

 

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On 9/4/2021 at 11:54 AM, Lord Lannister said:

You're not wrong. No one was better at that than Tywin. Yet in the end it was his bad parenting that destroyed him and all the power he spent a lifetime accumulating for his house instantly began to slip away on his death.

And yet Tywin married his cousin Joanna and allowed Kevan to marry Dorna Swyft, neither of which was much of a gain, particularly Dorna since her father is a landed knight whose family has been disgraced at least once (downgraded from lords to knights).

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On 9/3/2021 at 11:37 AM, Mrstrategy said:

How could Hoster Tully had improved the Riverlands when he was was lord paramount of Riverlands  making them more powerful economically and militarily?

HT was too ambitious for his pants.  Rather than scheming and plotting against King Aerys 2, he should have proven his loyalty over and over.  Finding a noble husband for a soiled daughter is not worth the human cost of the rebellion.  Edmure, Robb, and Catelyn were also too big for their underpants. King in the North! Really?  What arrogance. 

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2 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

HT was too ambitious for his pants.  Rather than scheming and plotting against King Aerys 2, he should have proven his loyalty over and over.  Finding a noble husband for a soiled daughter is not worth the human cost of the rebellion.  Edmure, Robb, and Catelyn were also too big for their underpants. King in the North! Really?  What arrogance. 

Yes! (I would love to see a fanfic where Hoster is just brought down completely and utterly. He conspired against me favorite house.)

On 9/6/2021 at 9:15 AM, Angel Eyes said:

Lyanna was already resentful of the match due to Robert's philandering behavior (which really makes her look like a hypocrite if she went with Rhaegar willingly). There's a good chance she would have wound up like Cersei had she married Robert.

:agree:. Considering what she and Rhaegar did to the realm and their respective families, I think she would've deserved it. 

Edited by Jaenara Belarys

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On 9/8/2021 at 6:15 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

HT was too ambitious for his pants.  Rather than scheming and plotting against King Aerys 2, he should have proven his loyalty over and over.  Finding a noble husband for a soiled daughter is not worth the human cost of the rebellion.  Edmure, Robb, and Catelyn were also too big for their underpants. King in the North! Really?  What arrogance. 

I'd say he got a pretty decent haul

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On 9/8/2021 at 6:15 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

HT was too ambitious for his pants.  Rather than scheming and plotting against King Aerys 2, he should have proven his loyalty over and over.  Finding a noble husband for a soiled daughter is not worth the human cost of the rebellion.  Edmure, Robb, and Catelyn were also too big for their underpants. King in the North! Really?  What arrogance. 

Somehow I think there was a line that Hoster was unwilling to cross; he never seemed to consider marrying Catelyn (to give an example) to Rhaegar.

Well, you can blame the Greatjon for bringing up the idea.

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16 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Well, you can blame the Greatjon for bringing up the idea.

I sometimes wonder at his motives for doing so. Accepting the crown limited Robb's options to basically win or die whereas the lord of WInterfell always had a potential ally in Stannis or Renly. The fact that the Greatjon remains a prisoner at the twins (according to what we've been told) smells bad to me although the justification makes sense on its own.

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10 hours ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

I sometimes wonder at his motives for doing so. Accepting the crown limited Robb's options to basically win or die whereas the lord of WInterfell always had a potential ally in Stannis or Renly. The fact that the Greatjon remains a prisoner at the twins (according to what we've been told) smells bad to me although the justification makes sense on its own.

When Iron Throne gave New Gift to NW major loser of that land was house Umber. Or just idea of getting that land back would be enough to make Umbers wanting independent North. Besides lack of population, fortifications and warriors in NG had made Umber lands and sometimes even Umbers targets of raids by wildings and so idea about government that would look more toward north than south would be welcome for house Umber. Or Umbers had good reasons wanting King in the North back.

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