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Covid-19 #38: As the Worm Turns


Fragile Bird

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It really is about time the Government stopped dithering, and acknowledged we need purpose-built MIQ facilities away from populated areas. The cost of such facilities would be a fraction of the cost of putting Auckland in deep freeze for a month every time there's a slip=up.

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13 minutes ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

It really is about time the Government stopped dithering, and acknowledged we need purpose-built MIQ facilities away from populated areas. The cost of such facilities would be a fraction of the cost of putting Auckland in deep freeze for a month every time there's a slip=up.

One problem with that is, this outbreak was not caused by a quarantine slip up. it was a person who came back from Aus and was legit out and about in the community able to assume they are not a risk...until they were. The other problem is it'll take until the pandemic is basically over to get such facilities built (esp considering the global shortage in building materials) with the accommodation space necessary to funnel everyone through those facilities and not hotels. The time to build dedicated facilities is always when there isn't a pandemic and a solid pandemic response plan has been drawn up. But then what do you do with these facilities, which will basically be like minimum security prisons but with nicer furniture, while there isn't a pandemic. And if you get them built, and 50 years later still no pandemic needing to use these facilities, then a govt is going to end up selling the facilities, or turning them into actual minimum security prisons, because the actual minimum security prisons are falling apart from lack of R&M. And then, hey presto! the pandemic that comes along 5 years later catches the country with its pants down, and the govt will say "no one could have predicted this." and "Oh sure, hindsight is always 20-20!", and back to the hotels we go.

Nice idea in theory, lots of fishhooks in practice.

The other thing I was going to say about NZ and lockdowns and the economy is that because the powerhouse of the NZ economy is food, and food production and supply are always essential businesses in a pandemic, it means the engine that drives the NZ economy will never be turned off in any pandemic or lockdown. That means both domestic supply of food (and loo paper since loo paper production would also be an essential business) and our most important by far export trade sectors will keep on trading. 

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3 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

One problem with that is, this outbreak was not caused by a quarantine slip up. it was a person who came back from Aus and was legit out and about in the community able to assume they are not a risk...until they were. The other problem is it'll take until the pandemic is basically over to get such facilities built (esp considering the global shortage in building materials) with the accommodation space necessary to funnel everyone through those facilities and not hotels. The time to build dedicated facilities is always when there isn't a pandemic and a solid pandemic response plan has been drawn up. But then what do you do with these facilities, which will basically be like minimum security prisons but with nicer furniture, while there isn't a pandemic. And if you get them built, and 50 years later still no pandemic needing to use these facilities, then a govt is going to end up selling the facilities, or turning them into actual minimum security prisons, because the actual minimum security prisons are falling apart from lack of R&M. And then, hey presto! the pandemic that comes along 5 years later catches the country with its pants down, and the govt will say "no one could have predicted this." and "Oh sure, hindsight is always 20-20!", and back to the hotels we go.

Nice idea in theory, lots of fishhooks in practice.

This outbreak was caused by someone who spent a fortnight in Quarantine, but just happened to be so ludicrously infectious they managed to infect the entire family in the room next door. They weren't out and about in the community.

On the other point - this pandemic is the new normal. We need to accept that, and behave accordingly (which to my mind, means new MIQ facilities).

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2 minutes ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

This outbreak was caused by someone who spent a fortnight in Quarantine, but just happened to be so ludicrously infectious they managed to infect the entire family in the room next door. They weren't out and about in the community.

On the other point - this pandemic is the new normal. We need to accept that, and behave accordingly (which to my mind, means new MIQ facilities).

You are talking about patient zero, who was not the proximate cause of the outbreak. The index case in the community was someone who was legitimately out and about in the community and having an MIQ facility on White Island where the fateful transmission took place would not have prevented this outbreak. I wouldn't be against re-establishing Matiu  / Sommes Island as a quarantine station, only this time not for sheep. At least it will have nice views for the inmates, and it would also be tricky to escape to the mainland.

If there is very broad, cross party support for ongoing border restrictions and quarantine out to 10-20 years at least, then I can see a good case for getting started right now building several quarantine facilities. But this govt, and certainly not the opposition parties most likely to make up any replacement govt are not thinking or planning along those lines. Though I do recall David Seymour saying we needed a dedicated facility owned and run by private enterprise. But he went silent on that very quickly due to how silly an idea it is to deal with an immediate problem.

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Yes, the curve is definitely becoming less and less flat. I suppose I wouldn’t feel half as anxious if we had any preventative measures in action. But we don’t, we just trust in God or the vaccines or nothing and pretend it all doesn’t exist. 

Also, everybody is ill, colleagues, family, etc. it’s not covid, but I think I have learned to be ridiculously scared of any and every seasonal illness. 

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19 hours ago, Rippounet said:

I don't think Biden can do much to convince conservatives to get vaccinated (and/or to wear masks). That one's not on him.

Biden's strategy on COVID has been to rely on vaccines and virtually nothing else, which is disappointing.  What about making rapid tests more widely available?  Providing clear recommendations for schools on how to reopen safely, along with the resources to meet those recommendations?  Making a federal standard for which masks actually work so that people aren't relying on cloth masks anymore?  Making clear statements based on the science on 3rd boosters, rather than letting the govt get ahead of its skis and turning it into a complete fiasco? 

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1 hour ago, Maithanet said:

Biden's strategy on COVID has been to rely on vaccines and virtually nothing else, which is disappointing.  What about making rapid tests more widely available?  Providing clear recommendations for schools on how to reopen safely, along with the resources to meet those recommendations?  Making a federal standard for which masks actually work so that people aren't relying on cloth masks anymore?  Making clear statements based on the science on 3rd boosters, rather than letting the govt get ahead of its skis and turning it into a complete fiasco? 

I had my annual check up today (flu shot achieved!).  I (obviously) spoke to my doctor about Covid.  Here was her take:

1.  Administration has been a bit of a disaster on the communications front.  She thinks they are jumping the gun on the vaccine booster stuff, and not doing a good enough job on communicating the mitigation strategies you describe above.

2.  She is not recommending boosters, except for 75+ and truly immunocompromised people (ie, those with organ transplants; those on chemotherapy, etc.) at this time.  She says understanding changes daily.  She is guessing for ordinarily healthy people 8 months minimum, and maybe you want next gen vaccine.  

3.  She had high praise for the NYC DOH (and slightly fainter, but still positive for NYS DOH).  Her view was that communication from NYC has been clear, consistent, and effective.  She is cautiously optimistic that school reopening is being done right - mask mandate plus vaccine mandate for 12+. 

4.  She thinks pediatric approval (5-12) for Pfizer could come as early as October (around Halloween) but probably at some point in December.  

5.  Go get your flu shot!

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My job is pretty uniquely positioned to gauge how bad Covid is in the area since it’s such a wide spread of people and we definitely hear if they’ve had it or not and they can’t come in if they do. We had three clients need to reschedule appointments due to covid. My coworker had a table at a horror convention and his helper had to call out because she caught Covid. I was available to fill in because the person I was supposed to be tattooing also had Covid.

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5 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:These names are ridiculous, at least it brings a little laughter the pandemic.  

Moderna= Spikevax

Pfizer = Comirnaty (lol wtf)

AztraZeneca= Vaxzevria

please tell me this is all a joke.  

 

*Comirnaty is apparently a mashup of of "covid 19" "mRNA" and "immunity"

this shit is cracking me up

 

Read about the official Pfizer name a while back, it’s not a joke.

I hope the brand-name bullshit backfires and gets dropped after a few years based on common use, like every other vaccine.  Because none of those are anything anyone would say “yes” to, based on the name.

Comirnaty sounds like a drunk trying to sound sober while saying “community” to an authority figure like a cop or their boss.

SpikeVax is sounds like they’re going to impale you during administration (or it’s made from the mRNA of The Road Warriors from WWF).  

“Ask your doctor if Vaxzevria is right for you - may cause anal leakage”

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2 hours ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

Down to 11 Auckland cases today.

Lets hope those Tauranga locations of interest don't end up plunging the North Island back into level 3.

Be sure to do your research before you make a decision about getting vaccinated.

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZSJoeq9pY/

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3 hours ago, larrytheimp said:
 

These names are ridiculous, at least it brings a little laughter the pandemic.  

Moderna= Spikevax

Pfizer = Comirnaty (lol wtf)

AztraZeneca= Vaxzevria

please tell me this is all a joke.  

 

*Comirnaty is apparently a mashup of of "covid 19" "mRNA" and "immunity"

this shit is cracking me up

 

Vaxxy McVaxface

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I know that it is an amusing topic but vaccines do need names(maybe except the Moderna one because it is the only one so far).

A number of names from my international vaccine certificate: Stamaril, Nimenrix, M M RVax Pro, Twinrix, Typhim Vi,  dT-reduct "Sero", boostrix (:rofl:), Engerix and quite a few more. :p

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On 9/16/2021 at 8:41 AM, RhaenysBee said:

Yes, the curve is definitely becoming less and less flat. I suppose I wouldn’t feel half as anxious if we had any preventative measures in action. But we don’t, we just trust in God or the vaccines or nothing and pretend it all doesn’t exist. 

Winter is the big risk factor now.  Countries don't neccessarily seem to have big spikes due to Delta.  Italy saw a moderate increase but it has seen declining numbers for the last 3 weeks.  It also may have benefited from the devastating COVID year that was 2020 in Italy.  Some countries are still seeing increases of course but i'm more hopeful that it wouldn't necessarily lead to disaster.

Still don't know what is going to happen in a few months though!

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What TX (and FL, and AK, and and and and ....) and the propagation that no one has to observe any rules about anything -- and gee whiz, trickle down even has Black people thinking that! --  hath wrought for NYers.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/carmines-hostess-attacked-after-asking-group-from-texas-for-vaccination-proof-to-dine-inside/3277565/

The hostess is in the hospital.  That's how bad the attack was.

Update due to other sources, who say the hostess (22 years old) was treated in an ambulance but not hospitalized.  The restaurant has hired a security guard now.  The attack happened when the hostess believed the vax cards she was shown were bogus. Which, considering the sorts who would attack physically over this issue, the cards surely were bogus. Isn't that something how refusal to vax, the purchase of bogus vax cards, and committing violence when not getting one's way all tend to converge in a personality?

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17 minutes ago, Zorral said:

What TX (and FL, and AK, and and and and ....) and the propagation that no one has to observe any rules about anything -- and gee whiz, trickle down even has Black people thinking that! --  hath wrought for NYers.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/carmines-hostess-attacked-after-asking-group-from-texas-for-vaccination-proof-to-dine-inside/3277565/

The hostess is in the hospital.  That's how bad the attack was.

Update due to other sources, who say the hostess (22 years old) was treated in an ambulance but not hospitalized.  The restaurant has hired a security guard now.  The attack happened when the hostess believed the vax cards she was shown were bogus. Which, considering the sorts who would attack physically over this issue, the cards surely were bogus. Isn't that something how refusal to vax, the purchase of bogus vax cards, and committing violence when not getting one's way all tend to converge in a personality?

Who the flying fuck punches a 22-year old doing their job? I’d like to see a story about these three damn Texans. I’d like to see jail sentences for that atrocious crime.

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Alas, I think they're merely going to be fined.  But then Bolsanaro has publicly proclaimed his refusal to obey either US or NY regs as to vaccination and masking as he arrives to take his triumphant place at the UN General Assembly.  So, then. :crying:

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