Jump to content
Fragile Bird

Covid-19 #38: As the Worm Turns

Recommended Posts

How this country can come back from this division I, who possess an above average imagination -- well I CANNOT.

Even if the people most directly hurt by this, left with life-long disease, if they survive not receiving the procedures they needed -- their family members will likely not.  There may be vigilantism and vengeance that the covid anti-vaxxers clearly cannot imagine happening.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Zorral said:

And we did have mandated masking for the supermarkets, etc.

So I looked it up.  The NY Times reports on the 15th Apr that NY is requiring people in the state to wear masks or face coverings in public whenever social distancing was not possible.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/15/nyregion/coronavirus-face-masks-andrew-cuomo.html

The shift from views in March was faster than I thought.  The CDC announced a change a few days later.  Goes back to the idea that March 2020 seemed to last forever!

Anyhow, while I was looking for that, I see that the US and Israel is reporting that over 40% of hospitalised breakthrough cases are in immunocompromised people.  Not a surprise but I hadn't seen figures before.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-07/07-COVID-Oliver-508.pdf

Seperately, there is a report on how much spare vaccines are floating around.  Its a lot!

Quote

The comments come after a new study from Airfinity, a life sciences analytics company, which concluded that developed countries are sitting on 500 million doses they could be distributing this month – and will have an extra 1.1 billion by the end of the year.

The estimate does not eat into supplies that might be needed for vaccinating teenagers and reserves enough for each country to boost everyone who has already been vaccinated, if necessary. If western countries were only to boost the over 50s who have already had two doses, the surplus would more than double to around 2.5 billion.

I wonder will the speed of distribution start to speed up over the next few months.  Especially since a lot of people were only fully vaccinated a few months ago, so wouldn't need a booster until 2022 (at the earliest).

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/health-pharma/pfizer-chief-says-enough-covid-doses-to-meet-who-s-vaccine-goal-1.4667667

And figures on a huge trial in South Africa on J&J versus Delta.

Quote

Johnson & Johnson’s COVID-19 vaccine cuts the risk of getting infected with the disease by about half.  The vast majority of the breakthrough infections were mild.

Initial results from Sisonke (released previously) showed J&J’s single-dose vaccine was about 70% effective against hospitalization and 96% effective against death.  Not great numbers but Delta is more difficult.  Its possible that Pfizer drops down to around 50% after around 6 months also.

https://fortune.com/2021/09/07/johnson-and-johnson-vaccine-reduces-risk-covid-infection-by-half-south-africa-health-workers/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Clueless Northman said:

Throw them out and let them die. My patience is quickly coming to an end, and when this happens, the lives of all of these fuckers will be forfeit, as far as I am concerned.

The problem is these people are contageous. I imagine some of them own firearms.

Just announce that the hospital will no longer be postponing surgeries and Ivermectin poisoning and unvaccinated Covid patients cases go to the back of the line. Make sure its on the hospital website and make sure all the media outlets report it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Just announce that the hospital will no longer be postponing surgeries and Ivermectin poisoning and unvaccinated Covid patients cases go to the back of the line. Make sure its on the hospital website and make sure all the media outlets report it. 

It sadly doesn’t work like that. Americans show up panicked to the ED, and surgeries that don’t need immediate attention (on a case by case basis) but need a hospital bed have been on and off since March 2020 to accommodate this demand.  It’s a feature of our broken healthcare system.  Now it’s more about having staff capacity to keep people alive in a triage situation.
 

I don’t know of any country who refuse to treat patients because of their shitty health choices, smoking/drinking/overindulging in sugar and saturated fat, even in limited care situations - it gets into very strange moral and medical ethics grounds. I would like to see some kind of restorative justice for people who occupied a hospital bed and refused vaccination - maybe likenesses used in advertising along with their hospital bills, or they have to go on a vaccine advocacy tour for their family.
 

I’ve said it before, but the excess deaths (and reduced quality of life/life expectancy for people as in the story above who had delayed healthcare) as the result of this are going to be seen over a tail of many years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

The problem is these people are contageous. I imagine some of them own firearms.

Just announce that the hospital will no longer be postponing surgeries and Ivermectin poisoning and unvaccinated Covid patients cases go to the back of the line. Make sure its on the hospital website and make sure all the media outlets report it. 

Not picking on this post, just wanted to jump in on the ivermectin: it looks like the media has overblown the ivermectin overdose stuff.  It's not causing hospitals to be backed up; there have defintely been a few hundred people admitted for taking a bunch of it nationwide in the US, but those reports of gunshot victims having to wait for care because of ivermectin seem to be wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@VigoTheCarpathian

https://policyoptions.irpp.org/magazines/august-2020/its-time-for-canada-to-follow-ontarios-critical-care-triage-protocol/

edit: I'm not necessarily endorsing the arguments put forth in that article, I'm just showing that there are jurisdictions that have protocols in place.

5 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

Not picking on this post, just wanted to jump in on the ivermectin: it looks like the media has overblown the ivermectin overdose stuff.  It's not causing hospitals to be backed up; there have defintely been a few hundred people admitted for taking a bunch of it nationwide in the US, but those reports of gunshot victims having to wait for care because of ivermectin seem to be wrong.

One or one hundred thousand: Back of the line, Sunshine. 

Edited by Deadlines? What Deadlines?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Padraig said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/15/nyregion/coronavirus-face-masks-andrew-cuomo.html

The shift from views in March was faster than I thought.  The CDC announced a change a few days later.  Goes back to the idea that March 2020 seemed to last forever!

Goes to show how long people are beating the dead horses of masking mandates >cruelty to horses all the time all the places!<

Calling up my journals from March -- here in NYC, as I recalled, we were highly recommended to wear masks if we could already.  Like I said. It took months for the death and hospital rates to fall after that -- and it was masks and lockdown that did it.  We'd already stopped trying to shop for groceries in person, but did online order and delivery.  As you probably don't recall, I kept posting here how privileged we were and how we knew it -- even though I was starting to lose it all from exhaustion from cooking for so many people who couldn't seem to pull together any idea of cooking, masking, etc.  And that went on until, mostly, early August -- when the OUTDOORS Green Markets reopened, mask mandated.  And that wonderful thing of the libraries providing grab and go.

At the moment -- only the moment -- at this moment -- on the pandemic map of infection, hospitalizations and deaths, and new cases, NY is one of the few spaces on the USA map that is pale yellow, as opposed to deep orange, red and purple.

Yes, I wear masks in the streets, fully vaccinated, etc.

I'm so glad the university mandates both vaccination and masking.  As I keep saying, this is not only good for staff, faculty and students, but for our neighborhood as a whole.

We actually went outside to dine at a restaurant tonight to celebrate/observe an anniversary. Partner convinced me.  I'm so afraid of getting sick with covid with my 9/11 respiratory troubles.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: TP hoarding 

My theory all along is that most adults had no idea how much they might need for a 4 week stay at home order or whatever because many do their business at work or school etc 5 days a week. :dunno:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

@VigoTheCarpathian

https://policyoptions.irpp.org/magazines/august-2020/its-time-for-canada-to-follow-ontarios-critical-care-triage-protocol/

edit: I'm not necessarily endorsing the arguments put forth in that article, I'm just showing that there are jurisdictions that have protocols in place.

One or one hundred thousand: Back of the line, Sunshine. 

I’m aware of the protocols - but these are for rationing care once there is no option. Right now, cancelling non-immediate-harm surgeries is an option to keep the most people alive (regardless of their decisions).  If crisis care protocols go into effect (at least in my system), there’s scoring in place looking at likelihood to survive and a few other factors as part of a bioethics review.  But no one wants to be there and make those decisions.

I get the outrage about people who do not vaccinate, but the condemnation and “othering” sometimes online gets a bit too much for me. I do wish for a way to make people realize and recognize the harm they are causing.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kairparavel said:

Re: TP hoarding 

My theory all along is that most adults had no idea how much they might need for a 4 week stay at home order or whatever because many do their business at work or school etc 5 days a week. :dunno:

Pretty much, yeah. I had zero clue on how much TP that I actually used because yes, I was at work every time I went to the restroom except for first thing in the morning. And I had no idea how much two people might use (the second being Pumpkin, who was by then also under my roof). 

It was a sh1tty estimate :rofl:

I was also really uncertain on the soap, too. My previous Target shopping habits had been “buy exactly what I needed, once a week.” I thought back and literally had NO IDEA how much soap I’d bought when over the prior quarter or half year. 

My cleaning supplies estimate was MUCH better since I buy for the housekeeper, and she’s here every week, as she was when I was in Canada for two years. So that was easy. Estimates also probably skewed by living at the Chateau Champlain Montréal Monday through Thursday every week for two years.

Edited by Chataya de Fleury

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, just a minor bitch, but I waited in an online queue for almost two hours to get my BC Vaccine Registration passport thing... and it gave me my code, but said, 'Partially Vaccinated.' Office is closed, so no doubt I'll be spending a few hours tomorrow in a phone queue to get it fixed [I got my first dose in AB, second in BC] Might get messy, TBD.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: TP Hoarding.  you are all armatures.

Many many years ago there was a promotion on the back of packs of toilet paper for a free cinema ticket per pack.  I think the promotion lasted for about 3 months.  at the time a pack of toilet roll was about £3 and a cinema ticket was £8, to us they where printing money.  Every time I or at the time my boyfriend (now married to him) went to the shops we would buy 2 packs.  We did not pay for a cinema ticket for a whole year and we went a lot.  We shoved the excess toilet roll in the loft and called it extra insulation.  We did not buy toilet roll for 3 years after the promotion ended.  This is what I call toilet paper hoarding.

 

as for last years problems, well due to this thing called Brexit and the potential risk of a NO Deal it was predicated in some circles there would be shortages of many things including toilet paper.  Well toilet paper is something that is easily stored if you have the space and has no use date. So I shoved a few extra Costco packs in the loft. (no where near what I had during that promotion)  When the panic buying happened I supplied family, friends and neighbours.    I was also able to provide pasta, rice and some tins to those having difficulties in finding food on the shelves.  My Brexit stock also meant we where able to stay away from the shops other than for some fresh veg from the farm shop until things settled down.  I have since replaced some of my stock over the summer and have a better idea of what we actually need.  - this has provided some help with the current shortages happening now.

 

 

I think the toilet paper thing in particular happened over here because in about January / feb there was reports of toilet paper shortages in Japan and their early lockdown, then gradually as more countries was hit by covid people went out to stock up in advance just incase taking supermarkets and suppliers by surprise, a few empty shelves in a couple of stores spread on facebook/ twitter causing more people to panic buy while they still could and it all snowballed.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm… either we are inexplicably lucky or the vaccination does hold its ground because the upward curve we are seeing with delta has so far been slower and flatter than the upward curve last summer.

I suppose it can have something to do with  with people’s experiencing mild or no symptoms and not getting tested, so the stats are flatter. But the sewing water testing also implies that this is not an exponential increase of infections. After an increase a couple weeks ago we see stagnation and even mild decrease in several towns and cities. And the concentration is still low or moderate everywhere. 

Now I’m sure that at some point this bubble will burst because we still have absolutely no restrictions in place to conserve this flat curve and/or prevent an explosion of infections in the upcoming weeks. Kids went back to school a week ago, that’s bound to kick in soon. 

Edited by RhaenysBee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sturgis 'Rona Biker Rally Did What Sturgis 'Rona Rally Does. No surprises here.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/07/sturgis-covid-delta-variant/

[paywall]

Quote

 

The annual Sturgis motorcycle rally in South Dakota is America’s largest bike rally, a 10-day blowout, with attendance this year exceeding 250,000. It was also a serious pandemic stress test. By bringing together hundreds of thousands of people, Sturgis helps answer a simple yet critically important question: Are we at a point in the pandemic where we can safely stage big-crowd events?

If there were a place where this could have happened, it should have been Sturgis. The best data suggests that at least 75 percent of the entire South Dakota population has some degree of immunity against the virus: About half of South Dakotans have immunity because they’ve been infected by covid-19, and about half of the population has been vaccinated — some of whom have already had covid-19 when they got their shot, so there is some overlap between these two groups. South Dakota, despite its middling vaccination rates, probably has among the highest levels of population immunity in the nation, driven largely by horrifying winter outbreaks.

That’s what makes Sturgis an important test. If it had gone off without big spikes in covid cases, it would have provided strong evidence that this level of population immunity — around 75 percent — would allow us to get back to the way we did things in 2019. But unfortunately, that’s not what happened. In the weeks since the rally began in early August, infection numbers have shot up more than 600 percent in South Dakota. We can expect to see big increases in other states, too, since bikers returned home from the event. Last year, after Sturgis, we saw massive outbreaks across the Dakotas, Wyoming, Indiana, even Nevada. Much of the region was aflame because of Sturgis, probably causing thousands of deaths....

,,,Over the past year, every time we have tried to defy the virus by scorning precautions, the virus has won, and people have suffered and died: significant outbreaks, a lot of hospitalizations, too many deaths. Large gatherings like rallies, festivals and fairs are the biggest test of what our society can do in a pandemic.

The simple interpretation of the large outbreak after Sturgis is that big gatherings are just not possible during a pandemic. But that is the wrong lesson. It’s important for Americans to find ways to come together. So we should ask how we can make gatherings safer.

The delta variant arrived at just the right time to break our spirits

Here, the pandemic playbook is straightforward: Ensure you have a highly vaccinated population. Verify people’s vaccination status. Require rapid and frequent testing, especially for the unvaccinated. Improve indoor air quality, and use masking intermittently when needed....

 

Which is why Chicago's outdoor Lolapolooza Festival worked out - proof of vaccination status. Which is why state fairs etc. probably will not.  And maybe why this past weekend's Atlanta Dragon Con with 42,000 + attendees may well work out, though it was indoors except for parade -- masking and vaccination.  I'm curiously waiting to learn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, VigoTheCarpathian said:

Right now, cancelling non-immediate-harm surgeries is an option to keep the most people alive (regardless of their decisions).

Except immediate harm surgeries are being canceled because no room at the inn due to unvaccinated covid jerkwaddies.  Read the piece linked to above regarding what's happened in Idaho for just a single example.  The state itself now says health care is limited. People who need cancer surgery can't get it -- and they are dying.  The system is broken by these jerkwaddies, of their own choice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, VigoTheCarpathian said:

I’m aware of the protocols - but these are for rationing care once there is no option. Right now, cancelling non-immediate-harm surgeries is an option to keep the most people alive (regardless of their decisions).  If crisis care protocols go into effect (at least in my system), there’s scoring in place looking at likelihood to survive and a few other factors as part of a bioethics review.  But no one wants to be there and make those decisions.

We're there. 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-us-hospital-icu-bed-shortage-veteran-dies-treatable-illness/

https://crooksandliars.com/2021/09/covid-overload-idaho-hospitals-say-they

12 hours ago, VigoTheCarpathian said:

I get the outrage about people who do not vaccinate, but the condemnation and “othering” sometimes online gets a bit too much for me. I do wish for a way to make people realize and recognize the harm they are causing.

"Othering"? I've been rhetorically shitting on anti-vaxxers long before this pandemic. This morning I watched video of a Covidiot harassing a judge at a supermarket because he ruled on mask mandates in a way she didn't like. This went on from the store to the trunk of his car. Words like "communist" and "traitor" were used, plus a few subtle threats for good measure. All because he ruled that kids should wear masks in school during a pandemic. The video was recorded and posted by the Covidiot herself. That's just one example of a torrent of idiocy I've seen recently.

If I seem intolerant of this stuff it's because I am. If someone says, "I was wrong", I have all the time in the world for that person. But why should I show any solidarity to anyone who, after almost two years of this, has never shown any themselves?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We in NYC are still dying with the 'non-immediate harm care' cancellation that began in March 2020.  Funny how that non-immediate harm in favor of caring for these covididiots is killing we others throughout the nation.  That's who the 'others' are.  Covididiots are eating all of it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is a thought that has been rolling around in my head, and I'm trying it on for size.  It's not super original or thought through, but I'm curious what you all think:

Covid is killing the last of our "forced communities" (which were already dying).  For a long time, at least in the US, there were several "forced communities."  The most prevalent were school and the workplace.  (Of course the armed forces are forced communities as well, but so much less so now, with the lack of a draft; there may also have been a time in the distant past and different country where state religion played that role).  By "forced community" I mean having to deal with people who are appreciably different that you are who have only one thing necessarily common which is being more or less forced to be in the same place for a singular common purpose.  These were already dying.  I think covid may have killed them.  I think that is probably a long-term bad thing.  I certainly have grown a great deal from being thrown into situations with people who have different perspectives than I have, and being in person helps in these situations....But they are on some deep level socially uncomfortable.  And now that people have an excuse to avoid them, they are taking the excuse and not showing up.  

Thoughts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

Here is a thought that has been rolling around in my head, and I'm trying it on for size.  It's not super original or thought through, but I'm curious what you all think:

Covid is killing the last of our "forced communities" (which were already dying).  For a long time, at least in the US, there were several "forced communities."  The most prevalent were school and the workplace.  (Of course the armed forces are forced communities as well, but so much less so now, with the lack of a draft; there may also have been a time in the distant past and different country where state religion played that role).  By "forced community" I mean having to deal with people who are appreciably different that you are who have only one thing necessarily common which is being more or less forced to be in the same place for a singular common purpose.  These were already dying.  I think covid may have killed them.  I think that is probably a long-term bad thing.  I certainly have grown a great deal from being thrown into situations with people who have different perspectives than I have, and being in person helps in these situations....But they are on some deep level socially uncomfortable.  And now that people have an excuse to avoid them, they are taking the excuse and not showing up.  

Thoughts?

First though is prisons aren't included in you list, though a couple of them in our own city are so infamous they are being shut down, including the one in my neighborhood where Epstein 'hanged himself.'

Also convents, friaries and other religious communities, fire departments (a shift literally does live together in professional departments across the country), orphanages, hospitals > nursing homes, community homes of various sorts to transition people from one state to one in which they can function in the so -called 'real world.'

These and the ones you mentioned, seem to indicate all 'forced communities" are "public good communities," except the workplace?  (We can and will, doubtless argue over whether prisons and schools are public good institutions.)

Group travel such as cruise ships and buses also?

Edited by Zorral

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...