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Covid-19 #38: As the Worm Turns


Fragile Bird

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1 hour ago, Mr. X said:

I had forgotten about the 7pm salute and fast-forwarded mentally to June (?) when there were fireworks all the time.

We live right between two fairly large hospitals in Brooklyn. I don't know that I'd call the ambulances relentless, but they certainly stood out due to the lack of all the other noise we usually get.

;Our uptown friends -- they live in the zips that are predominately Black and Latino and immigrants of all nations.

Forgetting the beating on pots and pans at 7 PM -- indeed, how quickly we forget. So quickly. Even what we experienced personally, at least if we -- me -- are among the privileged, who got masks and gloves, were able to WFH, who were able to order online everything from our groceries to new tech to help us Zoom better, improve our work stations, not have to ride the subways.  Our zip is that pretty much.

And now our vaccination rate is way up there, our new infections, positivity tests and hospitalization are below %.  So far.  Our zip is also Destination Travel from zips where vax isn't at that level, from outside the City, from other states and countries -- and many of whom won't / don't mask, and surely many aren't vaccinated.

So we are still trying to be as careful as we can. No parties, no concerts, no movies, just -- No. Very small gatherings outdoors of very old friends who we know are vaccinated too.

Not about the above anymore either, as we've got to be in classrooms once a week.  Vaccination and mask mandatory, but it takes only one.  It's, well, yah, scary.

And this last week, we lost six friends, in New Orleans, here, and Texas, with a single exception, all of them to covid, and in NO, exacerbated by Ida. The one here was from cancer. He's two year younger than I am, but his cancer has been ongoing, with remission, etc. since 2019.  2020 - 2021 put a halt to a lot of appointments and procedures he should have had.

 

 

 

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All of this.  I keep a pretty close watch on our numbers, and will be VERY curious what it looks like at the end of September (2 weeks after schools open, albeit masked).  That said, I’m living my life.  Kids are going to school (masked) and will get vaccinated as soon as eligible.  I go into the office sometimes.  I go out to dinner with friends (we eat outside).  I have some auto immune issues, so it’s definitely a risk, but I’m not willing to live my life in solitude anymore.  I am an extrovert, and my mental health was really really dire last March (of 2021).  Two weeks after vaccination, my mental state improved a lot because it was safe(r) to see people, and I did.  This is the new normal, sort of.  After delta will come mu, and after mu, maybe omicron will arise and be an issue.  Who knows.  At some point you get a shot, mask up, and carry on with life.  I’m at that point.

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I called the convent in Nairobi (Kenya) where they are taking care of my grand-aunt (she is a nun, 80+ and recovering from a broken femur) and the topic of Covid-19 came up as I talked with the nun in charge of communications. Seems the situation is much more dire than official case numbers suggest especially on the medical supply side of things. :(

She said vaccinated family members are welcome to visit but she does not recommended it at this point even if it is legally possible because of the pandemic situation. They are an island of the vaccinated from what I gathered (they got 1,5 % fully vaccinated in the country).

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4 hours ago, butterbumps! said:

hang on- do the vaccinated in NYC really need masks in the street?  honestly asking if there's been research that led to such a recommendation.

It depends on the neighborhood. In some places, you really don't need it as you might not encounter anyone during a walk at all and if you do, it's easy to avoid them. Other places are pretty much packed -- yes, it's outdoors, but it's still too many people too close to each other so many people choose to mask. Also, if one is going to the store or work or public transportation, masks are required so it's often easier to just wear it from the beginning to the end of the trip and not fuss with it at the entrance.

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10 hours ago, Mr. X said:

If you're asking whether there's a mandate for vaccinated folks to wear masks outdoors, the answer is no. I often do out of convenience as much as anything, as I find it simpler to just wear the mask for the 5-10 minute walk to the store or the subway rather than waiting to put it on when I get there.

Here's what the NYC Health page has to say about it: 

 

Yea, a little bit of this, though I had a strong suspicion there wasn't any kind of mandate for street masking for the vaccinated - as of last month City employees don't have to wear a mask with proof of vaccination in the office, so I couldn't imagine there being an outdoor directive to mask simultaneously.  But just because there's no mandate doesn't mean that it's not the better course of action -- most people I see in the office still wear masks despite being allowed not to because I think a lot of us are still squeamish about the ease of transmission in indoor spaces.  So that's a situation where I think keeping the masks on is a good idea backed by research.

Basically, I really, really do not want to have to wear a mask again on the street, the park or my bike commute.  But I also don't want to be an asshole, and if something had come out saying that it was considerably safer for everyone to mask on the sidewalk I would alter my behavior accordingly.

7 hours ago, Altherion said:

It depends on the neighborhood. In some places, you really don't need it as you might not encounter anyone during a walk at all and if you do, it's easy to avoid them. Other places are pretty much packed -- yes, it's outdoors, but it's still too many people too close to each other so many people choose to mask. Also, if one is going to the store or work or public transportation, masks are required so it's often easier to just wear it from the beginning to the end of the trip and not fuss with it at the entrance.

Yea, I was wondering if that was a factor.   I started seconded guessing it because @Zorral had brought up masking in the street several times, but their explanation above looks like that was largely due to very congested conditions.   I guess I haven't really found myself on too many cheek to jowl sidewalks.

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I went to the Alanis concert last Tuesday at Merriweather Post Pavillion. All I.M.P. venues required proof of vaccination or negative Covid test within 72 hours and they were checking IDs as well. Even though we were on the lawn it was a sold out show and we masked up the whole time (except for a few minutes of eating). We were even masked up in the car for the drive to and from. Had the show, which was rescheduled from last summer, been indoors I think we would have passed on it.

*we being my friend and I. The thought of MC at an Alanis concert...:lol:

Starting yesterday I'm back in the office (though if you were hired in the pandemic and it's all been WFH are you really back?) 2 days a week. It felt pretty chaotic to be around a dozen+ people in our section of cubicles, most of whom I was meeting for the first time. We have a mask requirement in all our buildings and a vaccination or weekly testing mandate. I don't think it will move to vaccination only but I guess we'll see how this plays out.

I only ride two Metro stops to work but there were significantly more people on the train yesterday than have been during my occasional trips to the office in spring/ early summer. But nothing like pre-pandemic times. Every 2 seat had 1 occupant and a few people standing throughout the car I was in. 

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1 hour ago, kairparavel said:

I went to the Alanis concert last Tuesday at Merriweather Post Pavillion. All I.M.P. venues required proof of vaccination or negative Covid test within 72 hours and they were checking IDs as well. Even though we were on the lawn it was a sold out show and we masked up the whole time (except for a few minutes of eating). We were even masked up in the car for the drive to and from. Had the show, which was rescheduled from last summer, been indoors I think we would have passed on it.

Starting yesterday I'm back in the office (though if you were hired in the pandemic and it's all been WFH are you really back?) 2 days a week. It felt pretty chaotic to be around a dozen+ people in our section of cubicles, most of whom I was meeting for the first time. We have a mask requirement in all our buildings and a vaccination or weekly testing mandate. I don't think it will move to vaccination only but I guess we'll see how this plays out.

I only ride two Metro stops to work but there were significantly more people on the train yesterday than have been during my occasional trips to the office in spring/ early summer. But nothing like pre-pandemic times. Every 2 seat had 1 occupant and a few people standing throughout the car I was in. 

I dropped the girls off at school today (yes, masks required and vaccines required for 12+).  That’s not the point of the story.  We walked up there no problem, but then it started to POUR.  So, I decided “have mask will subway” because I didn’t want to get super duper soaked even with an umbrella.  Subway was crowded.  Maybe not like it was pre pandemic, but every seat taken and lots of standees.  Glad I had my KN95. 

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3 hours ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

 Glad I had my KN95.

Attempting to organize my course tote bag -- I was rather astonished at how many masks, and the variety of them, were in there.  All of them fresh and unused, as I dispose of whatever I've been wearing during the day into the garbage, not back into the bag.

 

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11 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Attempting to organize my course tote bag -- I was rather astonished at how many masks, and the variety of them, were in there.  All of them fresh and unused, as I dispose of whatever I've been wearing during the day into the garbage, not back into the bag.

 

you can reuse masks... put them in a sunny window, some are washable.  one of the studies linked up thread showed that surgical masks retained efficacy even after being washed ten times

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I know, but I am fortunate enough that I don't have to -- and finding the space and time for laundry is difficult, since partner has turned the entire place into a media studio.  But thank you for reminding us all, when / if there's a shortage again.

Not having to worry about masks, gloving and washing down the groceries was an improvement to my state of mind (not to mention my hands) that I am still profoundly grateful for every day.

Plus, in case anyone shows up in the classroom w/o a mask, I will put one these on his/her/their face myself if they won't -- or else calling security and having them removed.

 

 

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40 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Attempting to organize my course tote bag -- I was rather astonished at how many masks, and the variety of them, were in there.  All of them fresh and unused, as I dispose of whatever I've been wearing during the day into the garbage, not back into the bag.

 

I always have extras in case the ear pieces snap.  I also have a number of kid sized extras (same reason) and ALL THE HAND SANITIZER (honestly was true pre-pandemic - kids are gross).  

21 minutes ago, Zorral said:

I know, but I am fortunate enough that I don't have to -- and finding the space and time for laundry is difficult, since partner has turned the entire place into a media studio.  But thank you for reminding us all, when / if there's a shortage again.

Not having to worry about masks, gloving and washing down the groceries was an improvement to my state of mind (not to mention my hands) that I am still profoundly grateful for every day.

Plus, in case anyone shows up in the classroom w/o a mask, I will put one these on his/her/their face myself if they won't -- or else calling security and having them removed.

 

 

I reuse mine a few times.  I’m trying to balance safety, environmental responsibility, etc.  

And yes, taking care of your mental health (and non-Covid physical health) is crucial. As you have pointed out so many times, there are other ills that befall people and we need to be sensitive and cognizant of this.  (I just had my teeth cleaned and have my annual checkup next week, wherein I will obtain my flu shot).

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25 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

And yes, taking care of your mental health (and non-Covid physical health) is crucial. As you have pointed out so many times, there are other ills that befall people and we need to be sensitive and cognizant of this.  (I just had my teeth cleaned and have my annual checkup next week, wherein I will obtain my flu shot).

Ya, we too are trying to get in all these medical essentials before the time for the booster.  Two days ago Partner got the first shingles injection w/o having mentioned it to me first.  Somehow, Partner seems to have not noticed, heard, whatever that shingles shots tend to make people sick for a few days. This has been fun.  Not.  No sleep for me either for the last two nights.

We've done the dental and eye stuff.  Next, flu shots, but they should really wait until the end of October.  Plus other exams are being scheduled.  Hope we can have them instead of having everything medical shut down again to fight Delta and / or whatever other greek character shows up.  Sigh.  It's so hard to plan these days.  Just like it is for most people around the world.

I think this is a huge driver of 'hoarding'. Even now I keep far more on hand than I need, just in case.  But then, after Ida's cha-cha-cha from the Gulf up through New England, supply chains interrupted some more.

Nothing has ever taught me as much about the extent of my privilege as an educated white person growing up and living in a country like the US as the pandemic has.

 

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't monoclonal antibodies produce by putting the same spike protein used in the vaccines into a test tube with white blood cells in order to produce the antibodies that are then cloned before injecting into patients?  So it's no different than just taking the vaccine, except for the fact that it doesn't train your immune system to fight the virus?  Sounds like adding more steps while skipping a few steps, and forcing you to do it again when you get infected again.

 

 

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This is legitimately a huge deal:

Quote

 

President Joe Biden on Thursday will impose more stringent vaccine rules on federal workers by signing an executive order requiring all government employees be vaccinated against Covid-19, with no option of being regularly tested to opt out, according to a source familiar with the plans.

During a major speech meant to lay out a new approach to combating the coronavirus, the President will also sign an executive order directing the same standard be extended to employees of contractors who do business with the federal government. The Department of Defense, the Department of Veterans Affairs, Indian Health Service and National Institutes of Health will also complete their previously announced vaccination requirements, which the White House estimates covers 2.5 million workers.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/09/politics/joe-biden-covid-speech/index.html

The bolded is an even bigger deal - it means employees of Boeing, Lockheed, General Electric, Bechtel, FedEx, Space-X, oil companies, various utilities... I don't know if Amazon is a federal contractor, I assume it is.

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6 minutes ago, SpaceChampion said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't monoclonal antibodies produce by putting the same spike protein used in the vaccines into a test tube with white blood cells in order to produce the antibodies that are then cloned before injecting into patients?  So it's no different than just taking the vaccine, except for the fact that it doesn't train your immune system to fight the virus?  Sounds like adding more steps while skipping a few steps, and forcing you to do it again when you get infected again.

 

 

Not to mention far more expensive than a vaccine.  Far, far, FAR more expensive.

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38 minutes ago, Gorn said:

This is legitimately a huge deal:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/09/politics/joe-biden-covid-speech/index.html

The bolded is an even bigger deal - it means employees of Boeing, Lockheed, General Electric, Bechtel, FedEx, Space-X, oil companies, various utilities... I don't know if Amazon is a federal contractor, I assume it is.

Oh that's outstanding. That would also mean the idiot cave people that I work with will now have to get vaxxed.

Despite our work facilities staging a few weeklong mass vax events, I'm estimating well over 50% of these creatures I'm forced to have contact with, remain unvaccinated.

It will be interesting to see if any of them have the cojones to quit over it.

Fire them, fire them all and lock them out the gate imo.

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3 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't monoclonal antibodies produce by putting the same spike protein used in the vaccines into a test tube with white blood cells in order to produce the antibodies that are then cloned before injecting into patients?  So it's no different than just taking the vaccine, except for the fact that it doesn't train your immune system to fight the virus?  Sounds like adding more steps while skipping a few steps, and forcing you to do it again when you get infected again.

 

 

Yeah that would be a lovely way, the reality is somewhat less pleasant. Monoclonal antibodies are created by injecting a mouse (or other small mammal) with the antigen, waiting for an immune response, killing the animal and harvesting the spleen, then fusing the b-cells with myloma cells to immortalise them.

But the rest is broadly correct, though you're only focusing on the circulating antibody side of the immune response. Theres a variety of different subtypes of antibodies and you'll only be getting 1. Not to mention t-cell driven immunity (nk cells etc).

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7 minutes ago, Impmk2 said:

Yeah that would be a lovely way, the reality is somewhat less pleasant. Monoclonal antibodies are created by injecting a mouse (or other small mammal) with the antigen, waiting for an immune response, killing the animal and harvesting the spleen, then fusing the b-cells with myloma cells to immortalise them.

 

But the antigen is the spike protein, right?

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