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Fragile Bird

Covid-19 #38: As the Worm Turns

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11 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Attempting to organize my course tote bag -- I was rather astonished at how many masks, and the variety of them, were in there.  All of them fresh and unused, as I dispose of whatever I've been wearing during the day into the garbage, not back into the bag.

 

you can reuse masks... put them in a sunny window, some are washable.  one of the studies linked up thread showed that surgical masks retained efficacy even after being washed ten times

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I know, but I am fortunate enough that I don't have to -- and finding the space and time for laundry is difficult, since partner has turned the entire place into a media studio.  But thank you for reminding us all, when / if there's a shortage again.

Not having to worry about masks, gloving and washing down the groceries was an improvement to my state of mind (not to mention my hands) that I am still profoundly grateful for every day.

Plus, in case anyone shows up in the classroom w/o a mask, I will put one these on his/her/their face myself if they won't -- or else calling security and having them removed.

 

 

Edited by Zorral

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40 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Attempting to organize my course tote bag -- I was rather astonished at how many masks, and the variety of them, were in there.  All of them fresh and unused, as I dispose of whatever I've been wearing during the day into the garbage, not back into the bag.

 

I always have extras in case the ear pieces snap.  I also have a number of kid sized extras (same reason) and ALL THE HAND SANITIZER (honestly was true pre-pandemic - kids are gross).  

21 minutes ago, Zorral said:

I know, but I am fortunate enough that I don't have to -- and finding the space and time for laundry is difficult, since partner has turned the entire place into a media studio.  But thank you for reminding us all, when / if there's a shortage again.

Not having to worry about masks, gloving and washing down the groceries was an improvement to my state of mind (not to mention my hands) that I am still profoundly grateful for every day.

Plus, in case anyone shows up in the classroom w/o a mask, I will put one these on his/her/their face myself if they won't -- or else calling security and having them removed.

 

 

I reuse mine a few times.  I’m trying to balance safety, environmental responsibility, etc.  

And yes, taking care of your mental health (and non-Covid physical health) is crucial. As you have pointed out so many times, there are other ills that befall people and we need to be sensitive and cognizant of this.  (I just had my teeth cleaned and have my annual checkup next week, wherein I will obtain my flu shot).

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25 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

And yes, taking care of your mental health (and non-Covid physical health) is crucial. As you have pointed out so many times, there are other ills that befall people and we need to be sensitive and cognizant of this.  (I just had my teeth cleaned and have my annual checkup next week, wherein I will obtain my flu shot).

Ya, we too are trying to get in all these medical essentials before the time for the booster.  Two days ago Partner got the first shingles injection w/o having mentioned it to me first.  Somehow, Partner seems to have not noticed, heard, whatever that shingles shots tend to make people sick for a few days. This has been fun.  Not.  No sleep for me either for the last two nights.

We've done the dental and eye stuff.  Next, flu shots, but they should really wait until the end of October.  Plus other exams are being scheduled.  Hope we can have them instead of having everything medical shut down again to fight Delta and / or whatever other greek character shows up.  Sigh.  It's so hard to plan these days.  Just like it is for most people around the world.

I think this is a huge driver of 'hoarding'. Even now I keep far more on hand than I need, just in case.  But then, after Ida's cha-cha-cha from the Gulf up through New England, supply chains interrupted some more.

Nothing has ever taught me as much about the extent of my privilege as an educated white person growing up and living in a country like the US as the pandemic has.

 

Edited by Zorral

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't monoclonal antibodies produce by putting the same spike protein used in the vaccines into a test tube with white blood cells in order to produce the antibodies that are then cloned before injecting into patients?  So it's no different than just taking the vaccine, except for the fact that it doesn't train your immune system to fight the virus?  Sounds like adding more steps while skipping a few steps, and forcing you to do it again when you get infected again.

 

 

Edited by SpaceChampion

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This is legitimately a huge deal:

Quote

 

President Joe Biden on Thursday will impose more stringent vaccine rules on federal workers by signing an executive order requiring all government employees be vaccinated against Covid-19, with no option of being regularly tested to opt out, according to a source familiar with the plans.

During a major speech meant to lay out a new approach to combating the coronavirus, the President will also sign an executive order directing the same standard be extended to employees of contractors who do business with the federal government. The Department of Defense, the Department of Veterans Affairs, Indian Health Service and National Institutes of Health will also complete their previously announced vaccination requirements, which the White House estimates covers 2.5 million workers.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/09/politics/joe-biden-covid-speech/index.html

The bolded is an even bigger deal - it means employees of Boeing, Lockheed, General Electric, Bechtel, FedEx, Space-X, oil companies, various utilities... I don't know if Amazon is a federal contractor, I assume it is.

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6 minutes ago, SpaceChampion said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't monoclonal antibodies produce by putting the same spike protein used in the vaccines into a test tube with white blood cells in order to produce the antibodies that are then cloned before injecting into patients?  So it's no different than just taking the vaccine, except for the fact that it doesn't train your immune system to fight the virus?  Sounds like adding more steps while skipping a few steps, and forcing you to do it again when you get infected again.

 

 

Not to mention far more expensive than a vaccine.  Far, far, FAR more expensive.

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38 minutes ago, Gorn said:

This is legitimately a huge deal:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/09/politics/joe-biden-covid-speech/index.html

The bolded is an even bigger deal - it means employees of Boeing, Lockheed, General Electric, Bechtel, FedEx, Space-X, oil companies, various utilities... I don't know if Amazon is a federal contractor, I assume it is.

Oh that's outstanding. That would also mean the idiot cave people that I work with will now have to get vaxxed.

Despite our work facilities staging a few weeklong mass vax events, I'm estimating well over 50% of these creatures I'm forced to have contact with, remain unvaccinated.

It will be interesting to see if any of them have the cojones to quit over it.

Fire them, fire them all and lock them out the gate imo.

Edited by DireWolfSpirit

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3 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't monoclonal antibodies produce by putting the same spike protein used in the vaccines into a test tube with white blood cells in order to produce the antibodies that are then cloned before injecting into patients?  So it's no different than just taking the vaccine, except for the fact that it doesn't train your immune system to fight the virus?  Sounds like adding more steps while skipping a few steps, and forcing you to do it again when you get infected again.

 

 

Yeah that would be a lovely way, the reality is somewhat less pleasant. Monoclonal antibodies are created by injecting a mouse (or other small mammal) with the antigen, waiting for an immune response, killing the animal and harvesting the spleen, then fusing the b-cells with myloma cells to immortalise them.

But the rest is broadly correct, though you're only focusing on the circulating antibody side of the immune response. Theres a variety of different subtypes of antibodies and you'll only be getting 1. Not to mention t-cell driven immunity (nk cells etc).

Edited by Impmk2

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7 minutes ago, Impmk2 said:

Yeah that would be a lovely way, the reality is somewhat less pleasant. Monoclonal antibodies are created by injecting a mouse (or other small mammal) with the antigen, waiting for an immune response, killing the animal and harvesting the spleen, then fusing the b-cells with myloma cells to immortalise them.

 

But the antigen is the spike protein, right?

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26 minutes ago, SpaceChampion said:

 

But the antigen is the spike protein, right?

For covid specific monoclonals yes, though I imagine they'd use a soluble portion of the spike protein receptor binding domain rather than full length.

Oh that's another difference - you're literally only getting lots of a single antibody.  During vaccination your body produces different antibodies to many of the bits (epitopes) of the spike. It's a big protein. So if the monoclonal doesn't bind well due to there being a mutation there (varient) you're out of luck. 

ETA: if you had a variety of antibodies it'd be a polyclonal. They don't use those for therapies afaik, too much variability. 

Edited by Impmk2

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5 hours ago, Zorral said:

Not to mention far more expensive than a vaccine.  Far, far, FAR more expensive.

Goes to show how anti-vaxx are complete morons with their "Big Pharma just sells vaccines to make money". A 2-doses vaccine isn't where the bulk of money is, they're making bank over drugs that sell at tens of thousands.

Amazing move by Biden, specially if private firms that do business with US administration have to be fully vaccinated as well.

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11 minutes ago, Clueless Northman said:

Goes to show how anti-vaxx are complete morons with their "Big Pharma just sells vaccines to make money". A 2-doses vaccine isn't where the bulk of money is, they're making bank over drugs that sell at tens of thousands.

Amazing move by Biden, specially if private firms that do business with US administration have to be fully vaccinated as well.

They could increases the cost of human approved ivermectin. I suspect there is a lot of profit there. Focus on the fact that severe side effects are only common if you use animal approved versions and start printing money.

I'm not suggesting that they do that because it has valid use cases but who knows in a country where people die because they can't afford insulin.

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7 hours ago, Gorn said:

This is legitimately a huge deal:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/09/politics/joe-biden-covid-speech/index.html

The bolded is an even bigger deal - it means employees of Boeing, Lockheed, General Electric, Bechtel, FedEx, Space-X, oil companies, various utilities... I don't know if Amazon is a federal contractor, I assume it is.

I would guess that it is only for parts of companies that physically interact with federal staff in their contractual arrangement with the govt. So it would only be a proportion of the employees in these companies that would be required to be vaccinated or find a new position within the company. Good. I think as an employer and purchaser of private services it is totally legit for the govt to have a no jab no play policy. Legit medical exemptions of course, I hope.

@Ser Scot A Ellison nice vaxxed vs unvaxxed graphics being produced by hospitals in your neck of the woods.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article254048788.html

Quote

NC hospitals begin publishing COVID patient numbers to make a point about vaccination

RALEIGH

Doctors and hospital leaders have been saying for weeks that the surge of COVID-19 patients this summer has been largely among the unvaccinated.

Now they’re beginning to share the numbers in ways they hope will inspire more people to get the COVID-19 vaccine.

 

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11 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I would guess that it is only for parts of companies that physically interact with federal staff in their contractual arrangement with the govt. So it would only be a proportion of the employees in these companies that would be required to be vaccinated or find a new position within the company. Good. I think as an employer and purchaser of private services it is totally legit for the govt to have a no jab no play policy. Legit medical exemptions of course, I hope.

@Ser Scot A Ellison nice vaxxed vs unvaxxed graphics being produced by hospitals in your neck of the woods.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article254048788.html

 

There are more people, even among the vaccine hesitant getting vaccinated.  What sucks is that it’s still too late.  My daughter fully vaccinated since mid May is Covid positive as of yesterday.  No symptoms and we reconfirmed with a second test but this is really frustrating to those of us trying to do this properly.

:|

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11 cases today. Numbers heading in the right direction, but only gradually, and ther are still one or two new locations of interest popping up, meaning recent cases have been out in the community (albeit only under lockdown conditions, so much lower risk of spread) while probably contagious. Interesting irony is that a vaccination centre is now a location of interest. An infected person trying to do the right thing, but unbeknownst to them (hopefully) they were already infected.

14,000 tests yesterday, which is more tests (from memory) than the last day that had 20 cases. So this is very positive, with a rising number of daily tests and case numbers going down. I still don't want to jinx it, but I am allowing myself to feel a real sense of optimism for the first time, really.

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In Alberta, right now:

15,997 active cases, 679 hospitalizations and 154 in the ICU.

Compared to values I posted in this thread on Monday:

13,495 active cases, 515 hospitalizations and 118 in the ICU.

They have six days worth of bribe-window vaccination numbers on the Alberta health website. I think we can confidently say the $100 bribe hasn't increased the poke-rate at all over the previous trend. However, it looks like the rate of first doses may have increased slightly compared to a month ago, but that trend started before the bribe was even announced.  I'm being careful with how I phrase all that because, if I'm charitable, its possible the rate could have declined this week without it. Back to school and all that. 

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Apparently antibody testing is showing that PCR testing of people to detect infection has picked up about 20-25% of infections in the USA. This translates to a fatality rate (IFR) of about 0.3% for the USA, which of course is a lot lower than the CFR of 1.62%. Estimate of seasonal 'flu IFR is about 0.1%. So, it is looking like the final assessment will put COVID-19 as about 3x more deadly than seasonal 'flu. By that estimation, then one could argue that it is reasonable to apply 3x the public health measures for COVID-19 than is practised for seasonal 'flu. Pretty much the typical approach to 'flu is [mostly] vulnerable people should get an annual vaccination, and if you get sick don't go to work / school / crowded spaces. 'flu measures should also now come with a mask recommendation during the the season.

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9 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Apparently antibody testing is showing that PCR testing of people to detect infection has picked up about 20-25% of infections in the USA. This translates to a fatality rate (IFR) of about 0.3% for the USA, which of course is a lot lower than the CFR of 1.62%. Estimate of seasonal 'flu IFR is about 0.1%. So, it is looking like the final assessment will put COVID-19 as about 3x more deadly than seasonal 'flu. By that estimation, then one could argue that it is reasonable to apply 3x the public health measures for COVID-19 than is practised for seasonal 'flu. Pretty much the typical approach to 'flu is [mostly] vulnerable people should get an annual vaccination, and if you get sick don't go to work / school / crowded spaces. 'flu measures should also now come with a mask recommendation during the the season.

Could you share your source?  I’ve seen estimates of ~20-25% of the US total population, but varying IFRs estimated that are higher than 0.3 (above 0.6), and I know the modeling around it isn’t straightforward, since it varies so widely state to state and across time, and you can’t use case deaths interchangeably with infection deaths.

Edited by VigoTheCarpathian
Clarity

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