ljkeane Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 17 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said: Seems harsh on India having to forfeit and draw the series. Huh, yeah, I didn’t realise that was potentially on the cards. I think it kind of depends, if there’s been cases amongst the Indian players then it does seem harsh. There are some reports that all their players have passed their pcr tests though and they’re not fielding a team by choice. It’s understandable that players might be concerned about potentially having to isolate and being stuck in the UK just when they’re about to go home but I think if you do make that choice you are forfeiting the game. ETA: Actually they’re not going home, most of them are going to the UAE for the IPL so scratch that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 I’m sure the impending IPL and the fact that the BCCI had requested that this Test not be held before the series even started have nothing whatsoever to do with this decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soylent Brown Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 For various reasons I didn't end up with a ticket for today, but I have a whole bunch of friends who are now on an all-dayer in Manchester, attempting to drink their disappointment away. Given how the fourth test ended, perhaps the exact same thing would have happened if the cricket had gone ahead too, mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxter Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 59 minutes ago, Hereward said: I’m sure the impending IPL and the fact that the BCCI had requested that this Test not be held before the series even started have nothing whatsoever to do with this decision. Fair call. It’s also kind of convenient that India are up in the series… But I still think we have to be grateful that we got through most of this series and three other tests this summer. South Africa, for example, has seen a lot more home matches cancelled, with England being on the other side of the equation then. Plus England might end up trying the same thing with the Ashes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 I thought it would be 2-2 given that we forfeited the match? I think this is the natural consequence of running sporting events during COVID, this isn't the first match cancelled because of that and won't be the last. I feel bad for the fans given that it happened so late, hopefully they will be refunded. 4 hours ago, ljkeane said: There are some reports that all their players have passed their pcr tests though If one's had close contact with people that are positive, being negative on your PCR on one day wouldn't really mean much. With covid, you can be negative on one day, and positive the next. Or negative for 2 days and then positive on the third. I'm not entirely sure what their specific covid protocols are, but we've had issues like this throughout the pandemic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 7 minutes ago, Raja said: If one's had close contact with people that are positive, being negative on your PCR on one day wouldn't really mean much. With covid, you can be negative on one day, and positive the next. Or negative for 2 days and then positive on the third. I'm not entirely sure what their specific covid protocols are, but we've had issues like this throughout the pandemic. Sure but the general policy most sports seem to be following since players have started getting vaccinated is that a negative PCR test means vaccinated players are available to play. It's obviously not perfect but if there was a different protocol in place for this series it's a little odd that it's being called off at the last minute. They'd obviously already know about any close contacts before then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 9 minutes ago, ljkeane said: Sure but the general policy most sports seem to be following since players have started getting vaccinated is that a negative PCR test means vaccinated players are available to play. It's obviously not perfect but if there was a different protocol in place for this series it's a little odd that it's being called off at the last minute. They'd obviously already know about any close contacts before then. Yeah, I think there are a lot of assumptions above regarding vaccination status, contacts & what the protocols ( And I suppose we kind have to given that this stuff isn't really put out into the papers). Happy to read regarding the protocols that the ECB/ BCCI have been following if you have links. Like I said before, I think this is part of running sporting events during covid, I do agree though that they're not super clear as to why exactly it's called off, but I also realize that they there's an element of confidentiality one needs to maintain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Raja said: Yeah, I think there are a lot of assumptions above regarding vaccination status, contacts & what the protocols. Happy to read regarding the protocols that the ECB/ BCCI have been following if you have links. I think given the ECB were expecting the test to go ahead as of this morning it's not an unreasonable assumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 The official decision seems to be that India haven’t forfeited, despite the ECB being of the view that they had, hence the fanciful talk of rescheduling at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 17 minutes ago, ljkeane said: I think given the ECB were expecting the test to go ahead as of this morning it's not an unreasonable assumption. Regarding what their policies are regarding vaccination? And who is vaccinated amongst the team etc? I disagree. As Paxter said, regarding the england matches being cancelled against south africa, with those being cancelled to protect the mental wellbeing of the English players ( which is totally fair), I don't think it's unreasonable to cancel a game given the circumstances and part of trying to play a series in a country where the incidence & prevalence of COVID is rather high. And really, I think we're a bit naive if we think covid isn't going to affect a lot of these matches, they will with the football too with the Premier league ( for example, arsenal wanted the game against Brentford to be postponed given that we had an outbreak) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxter Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 Yeah this is all a bit shitty, but I'm still pretty happy we got this many tests in this summer. Dinesh Khartik had an interesting take on it in the Indian Express that is worth a read. Seems like the Indian team has pretty much hit rock bottom mentally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Raja said: Regarding what their policies are regarding vaccination? And who is vaccinated amongst the team etc? I disagree. If it had been clear cut under whatever covid protocols had been agreed for the series then it would have been clear who was or wasn't available on Wednesday night after close contacts with the Indian staff member who tested positive were established. That's not to say the Indian players didn't have some reasonable concerns but I'm pretty dubious that this is just following the covid protocols for the series straight down the line if the ECB are making shock announcements about the test being called off a couple of hours before it's supposed to start. That's assuming there weren't any new last minute positive tests obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 12 minutes ago, Paxter said: Yeah this is all a bit shitty, but I'm still pretty happy we got this many tests in this summer. Dinesh Khartik had an interesting take on it in the Indian Express that is worth a read. Seems like the Indian team has pretty much hit rock bottom mentally. Yeah, there is no surprise that his piece talks about the effects of being in a bubble for so long, which is exactly the same thing that Ashley Giles said in South Africa when that series was called off. I think we in general have expectations that cricketers ( and footballers) should just get on with it and suck it up because they're compensated well. At the end of the day, this is just another test series and there will be plenty more of them to come - and we've had 4 excellent tests so far! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosi Mynn Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 On 9/6/2021 at 6:59 PM, Tywin et al. said: , that's still kind of meaningless to me. I don't know the differences between the different formats. Shit, I can't even figure out what the fielders are doing most of the time. But without context it would be like me explaining basketball to someone without pointing out how different the NBA is from the college game, how both are different from the international game, and how all three having nothing in common with 3v3. For example, I watched the highlights of an India-Pakistan match and it was like small ball baseball. I watched a different one between Australia and NZ and it was like a homerun derby. @Consigliere, to be fair, if Test is the super long format, I've heard it best described as taking a three game series in baseball and treating it as one match. These might help: TV Tropes: Cricket: Useful Notes TV Tropes: Cricket: Rules Depends how much time you have! But they are informative, accurate, entertaining and written by an American (which explains Rules - cricket has Laws). Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxter Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 Just a few points as the dust settles on the ruins of the fifth test: On the English side (fans especially) there is a lot of anger/frustration, which I think is largely due to the timing of the decision (hours before start of play) rather than the decision itself. I get it, but England and its players and fans have been in similar situations during COVID and probably should have some empathy. On the Indian side I think this was a team decision largely based on player and family welfare, both physical and mental. The IPL and leading the series miiiiiiight have been factors too. But I feel like a bit of a douchebag for suggesting it. They have been on tour since June, which is kind of crazy in the modern era of cricket. A lot has been written about the result: forfeited vs. cancelled/postponed etc. Implications for WTC, insurance, betting. I don't really have a strong view but I guess the ICC will ultimately decide this. It is interesting that the original statement said forfeiture; I wonder what happened in the interim to change that (call from the BCCI to ECB?) Why was Ravi Shashtri out in public spruiking his book anyway!? ETA: There is a side story and a warning here to Cricket Australia. If a huge event like a test between England and India can be cancelled due to COVID, well so can an Ashes test. CA have their work cut out to make sure they can guarantee a comfortable tour for the English players who actually want to be there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosi Mynn Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 13 hours ago, Paxter said: Just a few points as the dust settles on the ruins of the fifth test: On the English side (fans especially) there is a lot of anger/frustration, which I think is largely due to the timing of the decision (hours before start of play) rather than the decision itself. I get it, but England and its players and fans have been in similar situations during COVID and probably should have some empathy. Has England been in a similar situation? I remember a couple of players breaching bubbles (so to speak). We've been lucky to play at home a lot during the pandemic, and so can easily call up extra players/backroom staff if needed, but I don't recall matches being cancelled because of England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 13 hours ago, Paxter said: but England and its players and fans have been in similar situations during COVID and probably should have some empathy. Empathy is hard to muster, clearly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxter Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 9 hours ago, Mosi Mynn said: Has England been in a similar situation? I remember a couple of players breaching bubbles (so to speak). We've been lucky to play at home a lot during the pandemic, and so can easily call up extra players/backroom staff if needed, but I don't recall matches being cancelled because of England. I'll let Wisden answer that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 9 hours ago, Raja said: Empathy is hard to muster, clearly! I’d have more empathy if their mental exhaustion led them to go home to their families rather than to yet another bubble in Dubai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosi Mynn Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 6 minutes ago, Paxter said: I'll let Wisden answer that! That's ... a bit of a stretch! The players' physical and mental welfare should definitely be the most important thing. But the last minute-ness of this decision and the fact that the BBCI were grumbling about this Test existing before the series started are unique to this situation. And I guess we'll never know what would have happened if the IPL was due to start mid-October instead of mid-September ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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