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A Horse Named Stranger

US Politics: Maniac Manchin

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5 minutes ago, DMC said:

No, I didn't.  Please stop lying.  I said that 48 Senators should not compromise so much just to appease Manchin and Sinema - obviously emphasizing the disproportionality of giving them more than minor concessions.  That you misunderstood that is your own problem.

Nah, in one post you literally said that because 48/50 senators supported it the other two should just accept it without change. Reading a number of your old posts you bounced between accepting a tiny compromise and saying that Manchin and Sinema should just accept the deal while saying progressives shouldn't have to give anything. You did however say they shouldn't even accept a 5% cut in the bill, which in effect is saying give me basically the full deal or get nothing. A strategy that is very likely going to backfire unless something significant changes.

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:lmao:It is the case.  You are living in some pathetic reality if you haven't realized the deal the entire time was both bills would be passed simultaneously.  If Sinema and Manchin want a "pause" on the reconciliation bill, then it is entirely unequivocally fair for the progressives to ask for a "pause" on the infrastructure bill.

"The deal"

There are now a number of deals and they contradict one another. I'm fine with the House taking a pause too to give the Senate more time, but that is Pelosi breaking one of her deals, and it doesn't help that progressives are loudly saying they'll tank the bill if they don't get exactly what they want, which is the full $3.5T number. To place the blame on one side is just showing bias. 

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Okay....

 

Regarding the reconciliation bill - any realistic chance that if a big enough slab of pork were waved in front of them, that a Republican Senator or three might possibly vote for this?  Talking serious pork, not trivial stuff.

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1 minute ago, ThinkerX said:

Okay....

Regarding the reconciliation bill - any realistic chance that if a big enough slab of pork were waved in front of them, that a Republican Senator or three might possibly vote for this?  Talking serious pork, not trivial stuff.

I doubt it. I think that Republicans are less concerned with constituent services than they are with being Righter Than Thou. If Donald Trump should make a fuss about a defector, not all the pork in the universe will blunt the Trumpanzees' hatred.

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1 minute ago, ThinkerX said:

Regarding the reconciliation bill - any realistic chance that if a big enough slab of pork were waved in front of them, that a Republican Senator or three might possibly vote for this?  Talking serious pork, not trivial stuff.

The problem with taking it to a Collins or Murkowski isn't that they'd balk at just about the same spending Manchin is purportedly insisting on - they probably would be all for that.  The problem is they can't support virtually any of the tax hikes on the wealthy that pay for it.

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2 minutes ago, ThinkerX said:

Okay....

 

Regarding the reconciliation bill - any realistic chance that if a big enough slab of pork were waved in front of them, that a Republican Senator or three might possibly vote for this?  Talking serious pork, not trivial stuff.

Realistically, there is kind of absurd amounts of pork in this deal. Especially for some of the Republican states - the amount of money going to changing to clean energy should be able to absolutely transform a number of states' economies for a generation or more. 

That doesn't matter any more, because a senator's getting re-elected has very little to do with their state's success in getting money or their being able to do so. It is a nationalized, partisan race. That's not perfect, mind you - see Joe Manchin - but the days of a senator doing awesome by a state and getting re-elected over and over because of that are gone. 

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5 minutes ago, Kaligator said:

That doesn't matter any more, because a senator's getting re-elected has very little to do with their state's success in getting money or their being able to do so. It is a nationalized, partisan race. That's not perfect, mind you - see Joe Manchin - but the days of a senator doing awesome by a state and getting re-elected over and over because of that are gone. 

Pretty much, yeah.  Mayhew called it "credit claiming" as one of the three prongs of reelection.  Now it's just the other two - position taking and advertising.  That's not to say distributive politics is completely irrelevant or there isn't still pork, but you can't expect to just buy a key vote like that anymore.

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1 hour ago, Kaligator said:

Once again, @DMC and @Tywin et al. - can you please take this to DMs?

But it's the third day! If this doesn't happen every third day then something something dark side or whatever...

Edited by Jaxom 1974

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1 minute ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

But it's the third day! If this doesn't harken every third day then something something dark side or whatever...

Thank you!  I was beginning to consider this back-and-forth the template of an epistolary for our times, but Karl wants to them to take it to DMs.  Hey Karl, wanna buy me a Hulu subscription?

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9 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

We can't even do bribery right anymore.  :(

I'm not sure the old pork system could solve some of today's issues. "Bringing home the bacon" doesn't get you reelected anymore these days. Everything seems to be about creating a fight now, real or imaged.

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4 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

But it's the third day! If this doesn't happen every third day then something something dark side or whatever...

Blue Harvest?

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17 minutes ago, DMC said:

Blue Harvest?

I don’t think that was a Family Guy Joke. Just a regular Star Wars Joke. Correct me if I’m wrong @Jaxom 1974

Poor Family Guy. Adult Swim will miss you. 

Edited by A True Kaniggit

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6 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

I don’t think that was a Family Guy Joke. Just a regular Star Wars Joke.

I mean, "blue harvest" could be either.

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9 minutes ago, DMC said:

I mean, "blue harvest" could be either.

I learned something new.

"Blue Harvest was a fake working title used to hide the 1982 production of Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi,
 

Neeeeeerrrrrrd!:P

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22 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

I don’t think that was a Family Guy Joke. Just a regular Star Wars Joke. Correct me if I’m wrong @Jaxom 1974

Poor Family Guy. Adult Swim will miss you. 

Blue Harvest was the New Hope parody

Something Something Dark Side was the Empire parody...it was born out of, I believe, a Robot Chicken joke...

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1 minute ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Blue Harvest was the New Hope parody

Something Something Dark Side was the Empire parody...it was born out of, I believe, a Robot Chicken joke...

Consider me corrected.

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On Booker's power of persuasion, it's pretty clear Scott played him hard. He's still saying it was a good faith negotiation despite admitting Scott never really agreed with him on anything and while Booker is taking the highroad, Scott is saying Booker just wanted to defund the police despite that not being in the deal at all.

Democrats need to learn Republicans are not here to act in good faith anymore. Just see McConnell saying we have to raise the debt ceiling, but Republicans are going to vote to do so.... 

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