NFL 2021 Week 2: Is that Jeopardy! gig still available?

[KingintheNorth4]

If you want your children to be filled with hope and optimism, then don't raise them to be Chicago Bears fans. 

[Rhom]

Really liked what I just saw on that first drive from SF.

[Mexal]

Bengals! Chase! Burrow! Not Sewell! 
 

That’s the message.

[Rhom]

Welp.  Crap.

At what point am I supposed to start considering that maybe Kyle Shanahan isn’t a good coach?

[Rhom]

17 hours ago, Babblebauble said:

His power was broken that night in Tampa. 

This is why I railed against everyone who was dubbing him "Future Hall of Famer Patrick Mahomes" or "the best QB since Aaron Rodgers" after one season.  I've said it many times, if Jimmy G hits just one more pass  then Mahomes is now a two time Super Bowl loser and the questions begin to circle him "Can he win the big game?"  The formula for the modern NFL has seemed to be to build a solid team and then strike gold with a good young QB on a cheap contract.  However, the Seahawks and now the Chiefs are showing that the window for that is a very narrow one.  I honestly believe that Mahomes future is more Russell Wilson than Aaron Rodgers... and that's okay!  That's still a great career with potentially a HoF ending, but its not the GOAT discussion that I kept hearing every time I turned on ESPN Radio.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

17 minutes ago, Rhom said:

This is why I railed against everyone who was dubbing him "Future Hall of Famer Patrick Mahomes" or "the best QB since Aaron Rodgers" after one season.  I've said it many times, if Jimmy G hits just one more pass  then Mahomes is now a two time Super Bowl loser and the questions begin to circle him "Can he win the big game?"  The formula for the modern NFL has seemed to be to build a solid team and then strike gold with a good young QB on a cheap contract.  However, the Seahawks and now the Chiefs are showing that the window for that is a very narrow one.  I honestly believe that Mahomes future is more Russell Wilson than Aaron Rodgers... and that's okay!  That's still a great career with potentially a HoF ending, but its not the GOAT discussion that I kept hearing every time I turned on ESPN Radio.

What's the difference there exactly?

Anyways, it does highlight that in the strictest sense the MVP each year is probably the best QB on a rookie contract. 

[Rhom]

I sat up thinking on my Shanny the Younger question longer than I should have last night.  I want to believe he's good.  But at some point, the old Parcells adage starts to ring true:  "You are what your record says you are."

6-10  (1-10 prior to bringing in Jimmy G and finishing 5-0)
4-12 (Jimmy G gets injured for the season in the second game)
13-3
6-10  (The entire team gets decimated by injury)
2-4 to start the year

So I want to believe that the one year that the team was mostly healthy is who Shanahan is... but the records are piling up and they don't look good.

[Rhom]

6 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

What's the difference there exactly?

Anyways, it does highlight that in the strictest sense the MVP each year is probably the best QB on a rookie contract. 

Rodgers is the guy who keeps winning even though the team hasn't used a first round pick on offense since the George W Bush administration.

Wilson isn't that.  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Rhom said:

Rodgers is the guy who keeps winning even though the team hasn't used a first round pick on offense since the George W Bush administration.

Wilson isn't that.  

Idk about that. The Seahawks have been consistent winners with Wilson and both teams are perennial preseason contenders because of their QBs (neither team has consistently fielded a great roster around their HoF QBs). The big difference is the West has been a lot better overall than the North.  

[Rhom]

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

Idk about that. The Seahawks have been consistent winners with Wilson and both teams are perennial preseason contenders because of their QBs (neither team has consistently fielded a great roster around their HoF QBs). The big difference is the West has been a lot better overall than the North.  

Listen, I have an irrational dislike of Wilson.  Don't ruin my narrative.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Rhom said:

Listen, I have an irrational dislike of Wilson.  Don't ruin my narrative.

The Niners signing of Sherman must have been a traumatic event for you.

[Rhom]

9 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

The Niners signing of Sherman must have been a traumatic event for you.

You have no idea.

Somewhere, Michael Crabtree wept real tears that day.

[Maithanet]

5 hours ago, Rhom said:

This is why I railed against everyone who was dubbing him "Future Hall of Famer Patrick Mahomes" or "the best QB since Aaron Rodgers" after one season.  I've said it many times, if Jimmy G hits just one more pass  then Mahomes is now a two time Super Bowl loser and the questions begin to circle him "Can he win the big game?"  The formula for the modern NFL has seemed to be to build a solid team and then strike gold with a good young QB on a cheap contract.  However, the Seahawks and now the Chiefs are showing that the window for that is a very narrow one.  I honestly believe that Mahomes future is more Russell Wilson than Aaron Rodgers... and that's okay!  That's still a great career with potentially a HoF ending, but its not the GOAT discussion that I kept hearing every time I turned on ESPN Radio.

I don't know what is going on with Mahomes, but it seems very odd that you think people were too quick to say he was amazing after his first three seasons as a starter.  Going into this year his record as a starter in the regular season was 38-8.  No quarterback had ever done that.  No quarterback had ever even come particularly close.  Wilson and Brady are two guys who both won a Super Bowl in their first 3 years as a starter, and they both lost 12 regular season games in their first three seasons, and did so with MUCH better defenses than KC had. 

Sometimes a young qb could have one great season and then settle into merely being pretty good (or worse) - that is definitely a thing.  There simply is no precedent for a quarterback being great for their first 3 years and then being anything less than great for the rest of their career.  Is it possible he won't continue to be quite as good as his first 3 seasons?  Quite possible, but that is an almost impossibly high bar.  Because entering this season, a 13-3 record with 35 tds and 8 picks would all be below his 3 season average, and that is, quite frankly, stunning. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

4 hours ago, Maithanet said:

Sometimes a young qb could have one great season and then settle into merely being pretty good (or worse) - that is definitely a thing.  There simply is no precedent for a quarterback being great for their first 3 years and then being anything less than great for the rest of their career.  Is it possible he won't continue to be quite as good as his first 3 seasons?  Quite possible, but that is an almost impossibly high bar.  Because entering this season, a 13-3 record with 35 tds and 8 picks would all be below his 3 season average, and that is, quite frankly, stunning. 

Isn't Marino the obvious comp here? He had over 40TDs in his second and fourth seasons, but after that he only eclipsed 30 TDs once and his numbers really did drop off from his hot start. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

 

[Wilbur]

2 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Isn't Marino the obvious comp here? He had over 40TDs in his second and fourth seasons, but after that he only eclipsed 30 TDs once and his numbers really did drop off from his hot start. 

Has the Chiefs' roster deteriorated significantly from a talent perspective?  That is what happened to Marino, who spent the last ten years of his career with moderately bad defenses and some bad years from running backs.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Wilbur said:

Has the Chiefs' roster deteriorated significantly from a talent perspective?  That is what happened to Marino, who spent the last ten years of his career with moderately bad defenses and some bad years from running backs.

The Chiefs' defense is a disaster. They're so bad they make teams on average look like some all-time teams. And the offense isn't the insane beast we've seen the last three seasons. They're turning the ball over at around twice the rate they have the last three seasons. The bottom falling out absolutely looks like what happened to Marino after his quick peak. 

[aceluby]

12 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

The Chiefs' defense is a disaster. They're so bad they make teams on average look like some all-time teams. And the offense isn't the insane beast we've seen the last three seasons. They're turning the ball over at around twice the rate they have the last three seasons. The bottom falling out absolutely looks like what happened to Marino after his quick peak.

What are you even talking about?  When Marino went off in his second season, what he did was absolutely unheard of.  He threw 16 more TDs than the next closest.  It'd be like throwing 70 TDs in today's game.  When you say he wasn't good because he didn't eclipse 30 TDs, well that's because in the 80s and early 90s you might see one guy do that.  In 1989, for instance, nobody in the league eclipsed 30 TDs.  Most years of his career you might have one or two guys do it.  Dan Marino was consistently for 15 years one of the top QBs in the league.  There was no bottom falling out, he just had two of the most amazing years of quarterbacking ever (at the time) early in his career followed by over a decade of great to exceptional quarterback play. 
 

ETA: And I don't even like the guy.  I've always been team Elway, but come on....
 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

24 minutes ago, aceluby said:

What are you even talking about?  When Marino went off in his second season, what he did was absolutely unheard of.  He threw 16 more TDs than the next closest.  It'd be like throwing 70 TDs in today's game.  When you say he wasn't good because he didn't eclipse 30 TDs, well that's because in the 80s and early 90s you might see one guy do that.  In 1989, for instance, nobody in the league eclipsed 30 TDs.  Most years of his career you might have one or two guys do it.  Dan Marino was consistently for 15 years one of the top QBs in the league.  There was no bottom falling out, he just had two of the most amazing years of quarterbacking ever (at the time) early in his career followed by over a decade of great to exceptional quarterback play. 
 

ETA: And I don't even like the guy.  I've always been team Elway, but come on....
 

I didn’t mean to say he wasn’t good after that, just that he ceased being clearly the best QB in the NFL. After his fourth season he never again led the league in TDs again and only twice threw for the most yards. I used that as a comparison for Mahomes because it’s quite possible going forward he’s seen as one of the best QBs rather than in a league of his own, much like Marino was for the first few years of his career but not for the entirety of it.

 

And Marino’s acting chops puts him over Elway.

[aceluby]

7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I didn’t mean to say he wasn’t good after that, just that he ceased being clearly the best QB in the NFL. After his fourth season he never again led the league in TDs again and only twice threw for the most yards. I used that as a comparison for Mahomes because it’s quite possible going forward he’s seen as one of the best QBs rather than in a league of his own, much like Marino was for the first few years of his career but not for the entirety of it.

So by "bottom falling out" you meant "was consistently a top 5 QB for over a decade, but was never clearly #1"?  Seems like an odd choice of words for that, but ok...