UK Politics - We Don’t Want to See Your Papers, Please

[Which Tyler]

Sorry, back to the lorries.

 

And does anyone remember this from last Christmas?

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/manston-airfield-border-truck-drivers_uk_5fe1ef67c5b66809cb2d9d2f
 

I'm suspect the drivers might (and their friends and colleagues), and I have a sneaking suspicion they won't be lining up to repeat the experience for no particular benefit.

[BigFatCoward]

1 minute ago, Spockydog said:

Well that's what they're asking for across the pond.

And I don't see how asking for £14.87 instead of £15 lends any kind of weight to the argument.

I just think if they showed 'why' 15 quid was the figure that was decide upon it would carry more weight. 

I fully accept this totally contradicts what I previously said about saying whatever you need to to get power. 

[Derfel Cadarn]

Is it not $15 they want in US?

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

6 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

It might be an arbitrary figure, but that's what they're asking for across the pond.

And I don't see how asking for £14.87 instead of £15 lends any kind of weight to the argument.

$15 is £10.99, so it’s 36% higher than what they’re asking for in the US. I’m not dismissing £15 outright, but I’d want to see some research into the effects of such a hike. McDonalds is a huge corporation and not comparable to small businesses.

I think most of the electorate would see this in the same light as Corbyn’s nationalisation of broadband idea, unless there’s some solid backing for it.

[Spockydog]

6 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

I just think if they showed 'why' 15 quid was the figure that was decide upon it would carry more weight. 

 

Mate, all we need are a couple of graphs showing how the cost of accommodation, food, fuel, and literally everything else that we buy has spiralled since Brexit.

The average rent in London is now over £1500 per month. That's £1500 before you've even bought a tin of beans or a pint of milk.

But sure, let's make sure we've costed this shit to the nth degree, so the Mail can't call us ideological fantasists.

 

[Spockydog]

10 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Is it not $15 they want in US?

Yup. And as much as it has become acceptable for Capitalism to charge us GBP60 for a computer game that can be bought in the States for USD60, then as far as I'm concerned, that principle can also be applied to minimum wage requirements. 

[BigFatCoward]

2 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Mate, all we need are a couple of graphs showing how the cost of accommodation, food, fuel, and literally everything else that we buy has spiralled since Brexit.

The average rent in London is now over £1500 per month. That's £1500 before you've even bought a tin of beans or a pint of milk.

But sure, let's make sure we've costed this shit to the nth degree, so the Mail can't call us ideological fantasists.

 

Well exactly, 31 grand doesn't cut it in London at all. 

Let's say it should be whatever figure + x% annual increase to cover spiraling inflation due to brexit, and really hit the tories over the head with it. 

[Spockydog]

6 minutes ago, Stannis Eats No Peaches said:

 McDonalds is a huge corporation and not comparable to small businesses.

Are you trying to say that McDonalds can't afford to pay fifteen bucks an hour?

[Heartofice]

Skimming over the silly ‘inflation due to Brexit’ comments, the issue of real estate prices and shockingly over expensive housing is systemic and is a problem in pretty much every major city in the world. Not a coincidence that in a world of zero interest rates people are throwing money into real estate. 
 

I think it’s one of the real issues that needs fixing above all others, but no government  has the will to actually do it. Simply building more homes won’t even make a dent in the long term damage that has been done by massively inflated prices. 
 

My hope is that people moving out of cities after Covid will improve the situation, but it’s only made more rural areas more expensive. 
 

 

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

4 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Are you trying to say that McDonalds can't afford to pay fifteen bucks an hour?

No, that’s the opposite of what I’m saying. Just because McDonald’s can, doesn’t mean that every business in the country can.

Also we’re talking about pounds here, not dollars.

[Spockydog]

Just now, Stannis Eats No Peaches said:

No, that’s the opposite of what I’m saying. Just because McDonald’s can, doesn’t mean that every business in the country can.

As I said, if you can't afford to pay people properly, perhaps you need a different business model. Or shouldn't be in business at all.

 

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Just now, Spockydog said:

As I said, if you can't afford to pay people properly, perhaps you need a different business model. Or shouldn't be in business at all.

 

Well we agree on that, we just don’t agree on what paying people properly is, I think. I don’t live in London, but I’m paid just under £15 per hour and I do just fine for my circumstances. We’re talking about the national minimum wage, not a recommended wage for London. I’m just saying that without having seen any research into its effects, it seems like an unnecessarily heavy blow for businesses coming out of the pandemic, and I think most voters will see it that way. I absolutely favour an increase, but it needs to seem sensible.

[mormont]

2 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

You think the trans community is better off under a tory government or Labour one? 

I think, as I said, that policies aside there is no form of bigotry worth tolerating for votes. If Labour intend to defend trans rights, they should in fact defend trans rights.

I'd note that as well as being a 'red meat' issue for parts of their own base, the Tories are well aware that this is a wedge issue that can cause division in the Labour ranks - not among the voters Starmer needs to win back, as I've said, but among the Parliamentary Labour party. Some Labour backbenchers and even frontbenchers have signed up to the bizarre TERF talking point that this is in some way about an assault on women's rights. To equivocate on that question would have encouraged that wing of the party to be more open about this and push harder for TERF-friendly policies, causing more internal strife.

For that reason among others, Starmer literally could not give any answer to that question that would be politically advantageous to the Labour party. So he did the right thing. Good on him.

On the £15 an hour minimum wage, I'd want to know more about that. Is this (as I assume) a five year goal? Increase by, say, £1 a year until we get to £15? That's a whole different kettle of fish than pushing it to £15 in one year, which probably would be impossible.

[BigFatCoward]

35 minutes ago, Stannis Eats No Peaches said:

I absolutely favour an increase, but it needs to seem sensible.

After covid, 15 quid on small businesses already struggling (fuel and petrol costs on top of other issues) seems unlikely to gain much traction.

But £10 if they win followed by increments up to £15 over the course of parliament seem more reasonable, and easier to sell. 

[Hereward]

43 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Are you trying to say that McDonalds can't afford to pay fifteen bucks an hour?

McDonalds doesn’t pay people in the vast majority of its “restaurants”. It’s a franchise. The people who run them may very well not be able to. I don’t know, and nor do you.

[Spockydog]

4 minutes ago, Hereward said:

McDonalds doesn’t pay people in the vast majority of its “restaurants”. It’s a franchise. The people who run them may very well not be able to. I don’t know, and nor do you.

What I do know is that McDonalds made about $4bn profit last year. That money came from somewhere.

And as I said, if you can't afford to pay people properly, perhaps don't start a business.

 

[Heartofice]

5 minutes ago, Hereward said:

McDonalds doesn’t pay people in the vast majority of its “restaurants”. It’s a franchise. The people who run them may very well not be able to. I don’t know, and nor do you.

See that is actually a good point. Most McDonald’s outlet owners are just franchise owners, they are running a small business. I know there is a bit of a waiting list to get McDonald’s franchise because they are one of the more profitable ones, but even then it’s working at the margins.

Im sure McDonald’s as a company makes money through sheer weight of numbers of people buying their franchise and paying them a cut 

[Spockydog]

5 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Im sure McDonald’s as a company makes money through sheer weight of numbers of people buying their franchise and paying them a cut 

Yes, $4bn a year. In profits.

That's a lot of pints of milk and tins of beans.

There are too many businesses 'working at the margins' in this country. That has to change.

[Fragile Bird]

4 minutes ago, Hereward said:

McDonalds doesn’t pay people in the vast majority of its “restaurants”. It’s a franchise. The people who run them may very well not be able to. I don’t know, and nor do you.

I wanted to come here just to say, surely there must be a ton of information on what a living wage is in the UK. $15 an hour is a number that has been used in the US (in NA) because of all the studies that have been done. If anything, I would think 15 pounds in the UK was too low.

As for Hereward’s post, in North America Macdonald’s franchise owners are among the wealthiest franchise owners in the fast food business, they make money hand over fist. There are, I assume, organizations in the UK that rank the average income by various franchises, it should be easy to look up.

Mcdonald’s itself makes so much money because of franchise fees. Lowering their fees would easily cover the cost of better wages. And by saying lowering the fees, I’m fairly certain it’s a minuscule amount overall.

[BigFatCoward]

I mean fuck macdonalds, but back of a fag packet maths tells me that to pay 15 quid an hour is going to cost about 250-500 grand a year per franchise. That's a lot of mcflurries.