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Canadian Politics : Getting the right jab


maarsen
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Trudeau has acted swiftly to enact the vacc mandate for all federal public servants, employees of federally-regulated industry and air/rail/sea passengers. I don't think this will shift the dial massively on the 4m or so unvacced adults in Canada, but even putting a dent on this figure would help and is worth a try IMO. 

From an administrative perspective, it is a bit poor that no digital, national vacc passport has been built yet. Looks like we will be waiting a while for that. 

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You'd have thought that, at over 90% vacc rates, NB would've been as well placed as anywhere to deal with COVID this Fall. But sadly, nope, they are having their worst outbreak since the beginning of the pandemic and circuit-breaker restrictions are in effect. Things are also looking dicey in NT, which has the highest case count per capita in all of the US and Canada, except for Alaska. 

On the brighter side, cases are well below what was expected in the fourth wave everywhere east of the Prairies. And it does look like AB and SK may have turned the corner on their avoidable surges. 

Anyway...happy Thanksgiving all! I continue to enjoy my conversion to pumpkin pie. 

Edited by Paxter
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Lots of news about venues opening up but still with no rhyme or reason to decisions. Also the story of teachers threatened with suspension for wearing N95 masks rather than regular surgical masks in York Region is a mind boggling display of  bureaucratic stupidity. Doug Ford can relax as Ontario has a new paragon of stupidity. 

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1 hour ago, maarsen said:

Lots of news about venues opening up but still with no rhyme or reason to decisions. Also the story of teachers threatened with suspension for wearing N95 masks rather than regular surgical masks in York Region is a mind boggling display of  bureaucratic stupidity. Doug Ford can relax as Ontario has a new paragon of stupidity. 

At least everyone has to be vacced now, so I am personally OK with upping capacity on sports and concerts. If there is any evidence that they become super-spreader events (e.g. due to a new variant or waning immunity) then restrictions can be re-imposed. 

Night clubs and bars etc are still under capacity restrictions, as well as gyms. Will be interesting to see what they do in those settings, which are less amenable to mask wearing. 

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Just now, Paxter said:

At least everyone has to be vacced now, so I am personally OK with upping capacity on sports and concerts. If there is any evidence that they become super-spreader events (e.g. due to a new variant or waning immunity) then restrictions can be re-imposed. 

Night clubs and bars etc are still under capacity restrictions, as well as gyms. Will be interesting to see what they do in those settings, which are less amenable to mask wearing. 

I look at my vaccination certificate and it is so easy to fake that I don't have high hopes. I would have waited til a reasonably difficult to fake certificate was available.

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2 hours ago, maarsen said:

I look at my vaccination certificate and it is so easy to fake that I don't have high hopes. I would have waited til a reasonably difficult to fake certificate was available.

That's true. The actual vacc cert is supposed to be coming soon...

So far the resumption of sports events doesn't seem to have had much of an effect on the ON caseload. I went to some well-attended Blue Jays games and there was no real change in COVID cases in the weeks after. 

ETA: And the US border is finally opening to Canadians after 20 or so months. Kind of a weird one that they didn't open sooner, given that the air border was never closed at any stage during the pandemic. 

Edited by Paxter
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You know why the US-Canada border is opening in November?

Florida would be royally pissed off to lose out on the estimated $6.5 B Canadian tourists spend in Florida during the winter for another year. I doubt that it will hit that number this year, people will still be nervous, but many people will head south.

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15 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

You know why the US-Canada border is opening in November?

Florida would be royally pissed off to lose out on the estimated $6.5 B Canadian tourists spend in Florida during the winter for another year. I doubt that it will hit that number this year, people will still be nervous, but many people will head south.

Haha that's a very skeptical (but potentially accurate!) view point!

Funnily enough it has been DeSantis saying that the borders need to be more closed under Biden's watch.

The other thing I've read is that some WH staffers and diplomats didn't want to open the two land borders until the trans-Atlantic routes had opened up (which they now have). Opening the land borders while keeping Europeans out wouldn't have gone down well in Brussels and London.

I have also read that there was zero appetite to open the Mexican and Canadian borders separately, and they were always more cautious about re-opening to Mexico. 

Edited by Paxter
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Quebec is investigating hundreds of fake Ontario vaccination certificates according to CTV news. You can buy them online for $500 and as a pdf, there is no way to determine if they are fake. 

QR code ones are being released today bu paper ones will still be accepted in Ontario. I suppose Quebec will not accept anything other than QR code ones from Ontario now. 

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My work is about to wade through the mire of people claiming religious and medical exemptions for vaccinations. I don’t envy that task from an HR perspective.

It looks like Canada has pretty much maxed out at 90% of eligible people getting vaccinated. Even AB is at 85% now, which isn’t so bad. We really need 5-11s to be eligible in order to boost overall immunity and hopefully stop the next surge in cases. So far, the vaccines have stunted the so-called fourth wave very nicely in Ontario.

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1 hour ago, Paxter said:

My work is about to wade through the mire of people claiming religious and medical exemptions for vaccinations. I don’t envy that task from an HR perspective.

It looks like Canada has pretty much maxed out at 90% of eligible people getting vaccinated. Even AB is at 85% now, which isn’t so bad. We really need 5-11s to be eligible in order to boost overall immunity and hopefully stop the next surge in cases. So far, the vaccines have stunted the so-called fourth wave very nicely in Ontario.

From what I understand, it is not easy to get a legit medical exemption. The list of reasons is very small. Some people at my wife's work have tried and all failed. They all were placed on unpaid leave.

The religious angle is bogus, how many people are actually part of a religion that bans vaccines? THese are few and far between.

https://health.gov.on.ca/en/pro/programs/publichealth/coronavirus/docs/vaccine/medical_exemptions_to_vaccination.pdf

My work has decided they don't care and won't be requiring it.

Edited by Lord of Oop North
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1 minute ago, Lord of Oop North said:

From what I understand, it is not easy to get a legit medical exemption. The list of reasons is very small. Some people at my wife's work have tried and all failed. They all were placed on unpaid leave.

https://health.gov.on.ca/en/pro/programs/publichealth/coronavirus/docs/vaccine/medical_exemptions_to_vaccination.pdf

My work has decided they don't care and won't be requiring it.

What about the religious exemption? I know at least one person at my work seeking it (on dubious grounds). I hope employers play hard ball. 

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3 minutes ago, Paxter said:

What about the religious exemption? I know at least one person at my work seeking it (on dubious grounds). I hope employers play hard ball. 

Probably difficult, but it will depend on your employer. 

How many people are actually part of a religion that bans vaccines? THese are few and far between

Smaller businesses I can see rolling over, but for larger companies, the law is on their side.

https://www.osler.com/en/resources/regulations/2021/exemptions-from-mandatory-covid-19-vaccination-policies-key-considerations-for-hospitals-and-health

Quote

Most requests for human rights-based exemptions from mandatory vaccination will be based on creed. Under the Code, creed can include religious beliefs and non-religious belief systems that resemble religion. Among other things, an individual’s claimed creed must have a connection to an organization or community that professes a shared system of belief. To support an exemption based on creed, an individual must provide objective evidence that their claimed creed/religion prohibits vaccination against COVID-19. Many religious leaders and authorities have publicly and repeatedly urged vaccination against COVID-19. Additionally, personal preference or philosophical objection to vaccination will not support an exemption. In its September 22, 2021 Policy Statement, the Ontario Human Rights Commission stated that “while the Code prohibits discrimination based on creed, personal preferences or singular beliefs do not amount to a creed for the purposes of the Code.”

 

http://www.ohrc.on.ca/en/news_centre/ohrc-policy-statement-covid-19-vaccine-mandates-and-proof-vaccine-certificates

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I attended a visit to our doctor with my brother and we asked him about health exemptions. (We told him about my brother’s anti-vaxxer wife). So far the doctors in his group have rejected all requests made to them. He said there are only two grounds, as far as he’s concerned, you had a serious reaction to the first dose, or you are allergic to an ingredient in the vaccine (and he named the ingredient but I didn’t catch it) and the ingredient involved is used in OTC meds like Tylenol, so if he asks if they take Tylenol and they say yes, sorry guys.

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13 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I attended a visit to our doctor with my brother and we asked him about health exemptions. (We told him about my brother’s anti-vaxxer wife). So far the doctors in his group have rejected all requests made to them. He said there are only two grounds, as far as he’s concerned, you had a serious reaction to the first dose, or you are allergic to an ingredient in the vaccine (and he named the ingredient but I didn’t catch it) and the ingredient involved is used in OTC meds like Tylenol, so if he asks if they take Tylenol and they say yes, sorry guys.

I'd say it'd be the Polyethylene Glycol, which is the main suspect for reactions to the RNA vaccines, and a quick google informs me is indeed in Tylenol. 

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11 hours ago, Lord of Oop North said:

Most requests for human rights-based exemptions from mandatory vaccination will be based on creed. Under the Code, creed can include religious beliefs and non-religious belief systems that resemble religion. Among other things, an individual’s claimed creed must have a connection to an organization or community that professes a shared system of belief. To support an exemption based on creed, an individual must provide objective evidence that their claimed creed/religion prohibits vaccination against COVID-19. Many religious leaders and authorities have publicly and repeatedly urged vaccination against COVID-19. Additionally, personal preference or philosophical objection to vaccination will not support an exemption. In its September 22, 2021 Policy Statement, the Ontario Human Rights Commission stated that “while the Code prohibits discrimination based on creed, personal preferences or singular beliefs do not amount to a creed for the purposes of the Code.”

Interesting. So at least in Canada anti-vaxxers couldn't claim to be part of a protected religious movement in order to get out of a vaccination obligation. In the US, they probably could, I assume, as they also acknowledge blatant money-making schemes of tele-evangelists and even grant them tax exemption there. So what is stopping the anti-vaxxers at the moment to declare themselves a protected religion? Would they have to give up their original religion first if that didn't support an anti-vaccine stance?

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4 hours ago, Prue said:

Interesting. So at least in Canada anti-vaxxers couldn't claim to be part of a protected religious movement in order to get out of a vaccination obligation. In the US, they probably could, I assume, as they also acknowledge blatant money-making schemes of tele-evangelists and even grant them tax exemption there. So what is stopping the anti-vaxxers at the moment to declare themselves a protected religion? Would they have to give up their original religion first if that didn't support an anti-vaccine stance?

THey have to prove to the Commission that they are a real religious organization.

Below link is in context of organizations that can discriminate legally (I.e. Churches giving hiring preferences to religious individuals)

But the point is that the law is very different in Canada vs the United States on this matter, where I believe the employer would usually need to first assume it is a sincerely held religious belief.

http://www.ohrc.on.ca/en/policy-preventing-discrimination-based-creed/8-defences-and-exceptions

Quote

Just because an organization sees itself as religious does not mean that it will necessarily be found to be a religious organization.[234] Assessing whether an organization is religious may require an objective examination of the organization’s history, purpose, founding principles and by-laws.[235]

Receiving public funds or providing social services to the public does not preclude an organization from qualifying as a religious organization under this Code defence.[236]

 

Edited by Lord of Oop North
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This is an oh fuck moment.

I had heard about a shooting out in Scarborough the other day. A shooting in Scarborough, well, whatever.

It’s been so mild my dahlias are still blooming, so I went out out and cut eight or ten mixed colours and walked over to my best friend’s house to give her, while I drink her coffee. I said, wasn’t that stabbing in the UK just terrible, and my friend says yes, and what’s worse, it’s drowning out the news about my very good friend Craig being shot and killed in a parking lot.

I want to say I’ve never known anyone who’s had a friend murdered, but I probably do if I think about it, over a 50 year period. But no one that’s been gunned down in a parking lot.

They went to watch the game at a bar (Leafs, I assume) and after the game there was an argument in the parking lot and the fucker pulled out a gun. My friend worked with him at the hospital she was an executive of, worked with his mother, knew his wife. Her favourite memory is being stinking drunk at a staff Christmas party and the two of them singing Paradise by the Dashboard Lights together. His best friend was with him and tried to perform CPR. She’s been getting call after call from people she hasn’t heard from since retiring, stunned by the shooting.

What a fucking thing to happen. What a fucking awful thing to happen.

 

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