The Wisdom of Crowds by Joe Abercrombie [SPOILER THREAD]

[Nicomo Cosca]

So I finally got around on reading The Wisdom of Crowds over the weekend and my overall feelings are mixed, but leaning towards positive. I just finished reading it half an hour ago, so this are basically my first impressions.

My main issue with this book are in regards to its pacing and worldbuilding. The pacing felt weird, especially part 2 of the book. I felt not much time was given for some things or moments to properly land, but at the same time I felt that not much was going on. I know it sounds contradictory, but I feel like nothing major happened over the bulk of the novel but at the same time we weren’t even dealing with the emotional or societal consequences from the events of the first few chapters and the ending of book 2. I feel like we were just transitioning from the twists and turns of the beggining to the emotional roller coaster that are the last 100 pages of the book, and that not much focus was given in making that middle portion compelling.

That brings me with the issue of worldbuilding and I just might aswell go through the Breakers/Burners here aswell. I found the Breakers/Burners to not be very compelling antagonists. They felt a bit cartoony and I didn’t feel threatend by them. I get the idea behind them, I just wish we could’ve found a way to make their cause more sympathetic or something. I didn’t feel conflicted about them the way I did with Orso, Leo, Savine or Vick, and I don’t entirelly fault the lack of compelling PoV characters on their side for that (I found Stour Nightfall and Black Calder to be compelling antagonists and neither of them are PoV). I think the fault here lies with the worldbuilding in not properly conveying how the massess are living and how Society itself is changing. We are constantly told about the struggles of the common man, but I didn’t feel it. I think this problem is carry over from the other two books though, but the problem became aparent in this book.

Once the Breakers/Burners were dealt with though, I found the book became way more compelling. I was constantly changing my mind in regards to the characters and I love how this story ended. I like that we spent the final section of this book on the conflict between Leo and Orso, and all the players and motivations that surrounded them. I found the trilogy was at its strongest when their conflict was at the forefront, maybe thats why I loved book 2 so much. The ending of this trilogy felt more melancholic for me than the first one. I was surprised by how happy I felt for Vick and her the decission to leave everything, heartbroken by Rikke and Orso, and chilled by Savine and Leo. The characters overall were excellent, I just wished they shinned more in the middle portions of this book.

Overall I would put it on par with ALH, and TTWP is the one I would call excelent in the trilogy. I wasn’t as invested on the middle portions of this book as I was in ALH, but this one has the benefit of having the catharsis of the last section of the story.

I’m now planning on reading this entire thread and see how other readers felt overall   

[Zorral]

The book arrived here over the weekend, but I haven't gotten to it yet.  

[TheRevanchist]

Finished the Widsom of Crowds, the last book of Abercrombie. Spoilers below:
 

I did not see Leo's betrayal coming. The fecker.

I also did not see Rikke's final betrayal coming, though from her PoV it totally made sense, considering that she was the owl eat the lamb.

Rikke's parts were very nicely done.

King Orso dying was not nice. Probably the most decent person in the entire trilogy.

Glokta was the MVP of the book. I started thinking that he is the real mastermind behind the uprising at around middle of the book. Pike definitely did not have the intellect for that.

RIP Sulfur. The moment he entered the room, I knew that Glokta was prepared for that.

Finally a massive defeat for Bayaz, with Rikke rejecting his help, and Glokta getting the Union outside of his grip. Still think that he has a couple of tricks left, and he looked completely unphased about it and was already preparing the new pawns.

No idea about the last vision in the book. I assume one of the demons (Euz or something) returning.

Overall, a pretty nice book. However, I was expecting this to be the final book in the saga, while instead it turns out to be the middle act and setting the scene for the next trilogy or so.

[Rhom]

1 hour ago, TheRevanchist said:

Finished the Widsom of Crowds, the last book of Abercrombie. Spoilers below:
 

 

  Hide contents

 

I did not see Leo's betrayal coming. The fecker.

I also did not see Rikke's final betrayal coming, though from her PoV it totally made sense, considering that she was the owl eat the lamb.

Rikke's parts were very nicely done.

King Orso dying was not nice. Probably the most decent person in the entire trilogy.

Glokta was the MVP of the book. I started thinking that he is the real mastermind behind the uprising at around middle of the book. Pike definitely did not have the intellect for that.

RIP Sulfur. The moment he entered the room, I knew that Glokta was prepared for that.

Finally a massive defeat for Bayaz, with Rikke rejecting his help, and Glokta getting the Union outside of his grip. Still think that he has a couple of tricks left, and he looked completely unphased about it and was already preparing the new pawns.

No idea about the last vision in the book. I assume one of the demons (Euz or something) returning.

 

Overall, a pretty nice book. However, I was expecting this to be the final book in the saga, while instead it turns out to be the middle act and setting the scene for the next trilogy or so.

 

Just FYI, this is a spoiler thread so you don’t have to use the hidden blocks.

[C.T. Phipps]

I admit, I hate Leo and his Savine so much I'm rooting for Bayaz to overthrow them.

[Garlan the Gallant]

Is 8 years a good estimate until we get the next book in the series?

[SeanF]

4 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I admit, I hate Leo and his Savine so much I'm rooting for Bayaz to overthrow them.

I was not expecting to become more sympathetic to Bayaz.  

[Rhom]

2 hours ago, Garlan the Gallant said:

Is 8 years a good estimate until we get the next book in the series?

Nah.  Abercrombie writes much faster than that.

Even if he detours with another series like he did with Half a King; I think it would still be around five ish years at worst.

[A True Kaniggit]

8 minutes ago, SeanF said:

I was not expecting to become more sympathetic to Bayaz.  

Don’t be then.

Though for him this is just a little hiccup. He’s dealt with civil strife before. He may lose control for a decade or so, but he’s confident that with his wealth, knowledge, and longevity he’ll be back on top soon enough.

He’s patiently starting his new weave. 

[A True Kaniggit]

Actually, if Jezal and Glotka were really serious about taking down Bayaz, Jezal should’ve just mentioned to Glotka about the time Bayaz went comatose for a couple weeks after he over exerted  himself using magic against few dozen brigands in the west.

At any time they could’ve ordered a few hundred soldiers to kill Bayaz using wave attacks.

But the story must go on. 

[C.T. Phipps]

3 hours ago, SeanF said:

I was not expecting to become more sympathetic to Bayaz.  

I always kept a limited amount of it. Bayaz is an awful monster but the thing is the Union without him is every bit as evil and vile on its own.

Bayaz overthrew the Union government in Book 1# because it had become a complete clusterfuck.

As pointed out, Glokta killed just as many people as Bayaz did in all of his horrible atrocities. Also, nothing has changed.

[BigFatCoward]

Still struggling to work out why Rikke handed over Orso. Leo betrayed Orso after he spared his life, why would Rikke expect him to be remotely honourable? She gained nothing by doing it. 

[mormont]

1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said:

Still struggling to work out why Rikke handed over Orso. Leo betrayed Orso after he spared his life, why would Rikke expect him to be remotely honourable? She gained nothing by doing it. 

What else was she going to do?

If she takes Orso back to the North, she's more or less declaring she backs Orso's claim over Harod's. She puts the North and the Union at odds, if not at war. She knows Leo, she knows how he'd react.

[BigFatCoward]

An unstable South is surely to the benefit of the North. I'm not saying pick a side, but sneaking Orso out and letting him cause havoc probably would have gained her more.

Or I'm sure Monza would have offered a tidy sum for him (though I doubt Rikke would necessarily know that). 

[Corvinus85]

48 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

An unstable South is surely to the benefit of the North. I'm not saying pick a side, but sneaking Orso out and letting him cause havoc probably would have gained her more.

Or I'm sure Monza would have offered a tidy sum for him (though I doubt Rikke would necessarily know that). 

Trade deals were being made between the North and the Union. So an unstable Union wouldn't have helped the North's economic prospects. That being said, I wonder if Rikke's final vision will make her regret her decision about not helping Orso.

[C.T. Phipps]

8 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Still struggling to work out why Rikke handed over Orso. Leo betrayed Orso after he spared his life, why would Rikke expect him to be remotely honourable? She gained nothing by doing it. 

Leo's attention was focused South not North. She had no way of knowing he was a puppet for Savine and is now trapped in the ironic Hell that he will have to live as a peaceful economic power.

[Ninefingers]

19 hours ago, Garlan the Gallant said:

Is 8 years a good estimate until we get the next book in the series?

2006 - The Blade Itself

2007 - Before they are Hanged

2008 - The Last Argument of Kings

2009 - Best Served Cold

2011 - The Heroes

2012 - Red Country

2014 - Half a King

2015 - Half the World

2015 - Half a War

2019 - A Little Hatred

2020 - The Trouble with Peace

2021 - The Wisdom of Crowds

 

The only significant breaks were when he chose to draft multiple volumes at once. I say 2-4 years for the next installment.  

[Rhom]

20 minutes ago, Ninefingers said:

2006 - The Blade Itself

2007 - Before they are Hanged

2008 - The Last Argument of Kings

2009 - Best Served Cold

2011 - The Heroes

2012 - Red Country

2014 - Half a King

2015 - Half the World

2015 - Half a War

2019 - A Little Hatred

2020 - The Trouble with Peace

2021 - The Wisdom of Crowds

 

The only significant breaks were when he chose to draft multiple volumes at once. I say 2-4 years for the next installment.  

Buuuuuut... the gap between Red Country and A Little Hatred is 7 years.  So while I agree that it won't be 8 years, I think its worth pointing out that it will be a longer gap for "the next installment" if he decides to go somewhere new or even back to Shattered Sea.

[Ninefingers]

Sure. If he decides to do something else all bets are off. That said, I'm comfortable with my prediction. 

Maybe we'll get lucky and the occasional poster will drop by and set me straight. 

[SeanF]

9 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Still struggling to work out why Rikke handed over Orso. Leo betrayed Orso after he spared his life, why would Rikke expect him to be remotely honourable? She gained nothing by doing it. 

The North has been bled white.  So has the Union, but it still has far greater resources.  Rikke needs peace with the Union, at least for a time, even if it’s a cold peace.  It was a pragmatic decision, but she will always hate herself for it.