The Wisdom of Crowds by Joe Abercrombie [SPOILER THREAD]

[Quijote Light]

28 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

I didn’t get that. 
 

I just thought it was Bayaz using the tools he has available. Perhaps Sulfur mentioned her in one of his reports. 

Also, we get a POV from Hildi in which there’s nothing to indicate she’s anything but what she’s portrayed to be. 

[Zorral]

OK.  I'm not  going to swear what I thought was right, that's for sure.  But she being the great tender of Orso through so much thick and thin, sets one wondering why she suddenly appears there, of all places, right? 

[Maltaran]

9 minutes ago, Zorral said:

OK.  I'm not  going to swear what I thought was right, that's for sure.  But she being the great tender of Orso through so much thick and thin, sets one wondering why she suddenly appears there, of all places, right? 

She's looking for revenge against the people who killed Orso, so she's gone to Bayaz.

[Zorral]

5 minutes ago, Maltaran said:

She's looking for revenge against the people who killed Orso, so she's gone to Bayaz.

OK.  I can buy that.  That after an entire book w/o him, other than references to him being 'past' -- it was confusing to have him suddenly show up.

 

[Lord Patrek]

Do you guys think that Sulfur is dead? Or did he just get his ass handed to him and will be back after licking his wounds?

[Garlan the Gallant]

On 10/28/2021 at 5:39 AM, Gaston de Foix said:

Also my favorite one sentence character: Jaremias, Kanedias' assistant. 

Didn't he start the Dragon People? I would assume he was the first Right Hand, which means he's probably dead. 

 

On 10/28/2021 at 5:39 AM, Gaston de Foix said:

It is also possible that Yulwei and Tolomei are alive.

If Yulwei survived this whole time, that would be insane. What is there to even eat or drink? Something tells me he's long gone. 

 

On 10/28/2021 at 5:39 AM, Gaston de Foix said:

there just so-happens to be a long-in-the-tooth warrior wandering around possessed by the most bloody of spirits.

How old would he be at this point? Too old. 

 

On 10/28/2021 at 5:39 AM, Gaston de Foix said:

There are a number of loose ends/remnants knocking around

You are missing some. What about Leru or Karnault or the three unnamed Magi (though I think this is a nod to Tolkien). 

 

On 10/28/2021 at 5:39 AM, Gaston de Foix said:

(i) Bayaz allegedly killed a wounded Juvens; (ii) Bayaz definitely threw Kanedias off the Tower of the Maker. 

Although it was Bayaz that killed them, it was Juvens unwillingness to give up Bayaz to Kanedias (probably because he was pissed he didn't help with Glustrod), as well as his hard hand approach at banishing Bayaz and Kanedias unwillingness to share his secrets that kind of led to their deaths. So, in truth, they both did destroy themselves. Glustrod is obvious and he blew himself up. ...Maybe Bedesh being dead doesn't really mean Euz can come back. Maybe as long his spirit is alive, Euz can't return. Maybe Bedesh retreated into just being a spirit and, therefore, "destroyed himself."

On 10/28/2021 at 5:39 AM, Gaston de Foix said:

Yes, that would be the possible reason. 

I mean, I like this fan-fiction that we are dreaming up, but do we have any indication that this is actually the case?

 

On 10/28/2021 at 5:39 AM, Gaston de Foix said:

(i) Bayaz allegedly killed a wounded Juvens;

This always confused me. I have seen it said that some people think he wielded the Divider against Juvens and some people said he killed him when wounded. Honestly, the very first time I read the series I always assumed that the Divider can cut you off from magic and once Kanedias used it against Juvens, Juvens could no longer touch the Other Side. Bayaz slit his throat. I never assumed he was physically injured, or at least fatally. It made sense to me this way because he answers that he killed no one. Who is Juvens without his High Art? No one. That being said, this would seem like a fairly easy way to kill Euz, as well.

[Maltaran]

10 hours ago, Lord Patrek said:

Do you guys think that Sulfur is dead? Or did he just get his ass handed to him and will be back after licking his wounds?

I think Sulfur is dead and eaten

[SeanF]

On 10/29/2021 at 6:24 PM, Maltaran said:

She's looking for revenge against the people who killed Orso, so she's gone to Bayaz.

I agree.  She and Tunny had become very fond of Orso. I think there are plenty of people who will wish to avenge him.

[BigFatCoward]

17 hours ago, Garlan the Gallant said:

 

If Yulwei survived this whole time, that would be insane. What is there to even eat or drink? Something tells me he's long gone. 

 

'He goes where he pleases'

 

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

I agree.  She and Tunny had become very fond of Orso. I think there are plenty of people who will wish to avenge him.

Do you have any ideas on how Hildi found Bayez?  Or even knew to look for him?

[Maltaran]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

Do you have any ideas on how Hildi found Bayez?  Or even knew to look for him?

Maybe Bayaz found her - he would have known who she was and how she felt about Orso, because he would have made sure he knew about everyone close to Orso in case they were a danger to him or his plans. And we know Bayaz is good at finding people from how he sent Quai to find Logan in The Blade Itself.

[Zorral]

4 hours ago, Maltaran said:

Maybe Bayaz found her - he would have known who she was and how she felt about Orso, because he would have made sure he knew about everyone close to Orso in case they were a danger to him or his plans. And we know Bayaz is good at finding people from how he sent Quai to find Logan in The Blade Itself.

Thank you! 

[Corvinus85]

On 10/29/2021 at 4:53 PM, Lord Patrek said:

Do you guys think that Sulfur is dead? Or did he just get his ass handed to him and will be back after licking his wounds?

Well they ripped his head out, didn't they? He's dead.

[Lord Patrek]

That's what I thought too.

But Eaters are hard to kill and seem to find ways to cheat death and come back.

[Garlan the Gallant]

3 hours ago, Lord Patrek said:

That's what I thought too.

But Eaters are hard to kill and seem to find ways to cheat death and come back.

‘Tis but a flesh wound

[Maithanet]

I don't see how Zuri et al would leave any possibility that Sulfur was still alive.  I don't know if eaters eat other eaters, but they definitely would know how to kill one. 

[Maithanet]

Finished the book last night.  It was a good yarn, I was at the edge of my seat for some of it.

I actually liked how Bayaz got sidelined and (at least temporarily) deposed.  He was prepared to fight the old battles in the old ways against Khalul, but he was caught flatfooted by Glokta's multi-prong approach, including a true people's rebellion.  Some people were complaining that it seemed like Bayaz just let all this happen, but his success in LAOK shouldn't cloud our judgement that he always has all the information and tools he needs to win.  Bayaz nearly died several times in BtaH against...fairly unimpressive opposition.  IMO the only thing he could do is use V&B's foreign connections to get someone to declare war on the Union.  But I'm not sure V&B has any strong allies to do that at the moment and that's not the sort of thing he can arrange at the drop of a hat. 

Does Glokta know where Bayaz lives?  Bethod and Calder did (they both went there in the OT).  Bayaz actually seems fairly vulnerable right now - there are a lot of dangerous people who know that he's the puppetmaster behind it all, and would want to be rid of him.  Could Bayaz really stop three eaters and a few hundred of the Union's best men assaulting his walls? 

[SeanF]

4 hours ago, Maithanet said:

Finished the book last night.  It was a good yarn, I was at the edge of my seat for some of it.

I actually liked how Bayaz got sidelined and (at least temporarily) deposed.  He was prepared to fight the old battles in the old ways against Khalul, but he was caught flatfooted by Glokta's multi-prong approach, including a true people's rebellion.  Some people were complaining that it seemed like Bayaz just let all this happen, but his success in LAOK shouldn't cloud our judgement that he always has all the information and tools he needs to win.  Bayaz nearly died several times in BtaH against...fairly unimpressive opposition.  IMO the only thing he could do is use V&B's foreign connections to get someone to declare war on the Union.  But I'm not sure V&B has any strong allies to do that at the moment and that's not the sort of thing he can arrange at the drop of a hat. 

Does Glokta know where Bayaz lives?  Bethod and Calder did (they both went there in the OT).  Bayaz actually seems fairly vulnerable right now - there are a lot of dangerous people who know that he's the puppetmaster behind it all, and would want to be rid of him.  Could Bayaz really stop three eaters and a few hundred of the Union's best men assaulting his walls? 

Bayaz, cornered, would be terrifying, I suspect. Yes, they might overwhelm him, but they would take terrible casualties.

[BigFatCoward]

Where is the seed currently? 

[Maithanet]

16 hours ago, SeanF said:

Bayaz, cornered, would be terrifying, I suspect. Yes, they might overwhelm him, but they would take terrible casualties.

No doubt.  It would be incredibly risky for the men involved.  But even if several hundred people were killed, that would still be less than any of the wars that Bayaz is guaranteed to start.  Glotka (and to a lesser extent, Monza and Rikke) know this. 

16 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Where is the seed currently? 

The last it was seen, in the possession of Bayaz.