Dune Spoiler Thread

[Scott_N]

8 hours ago, Ran said:

That's what I've heard. And by most accounts, a great TV show, especially if one liked The Leftovers. Now that I'm done with The Witcher and The Expanse, it's next on my list to catch up on.

The show is great. Outstanding even.

It's very much an adaptation, though, so some significant changes from the source material but, to my mind, it's done exceedingly well.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

2 hours ago, Scott_N said:

The show is great. Outstanding even.

It's very much an adaptation, though, so some significant changes from the source material but, to my mind, it's done exceedingly well.

Just watched the first episode.  Very significant changes.

[Calibandar]

Having seen it twice, I am not quite sure yet how high I rate it compared to his previous films.

On its own, I really, really like it. But there is so much story left to go and that impacts it, I think thats what makes me put it slightly below Blade Runner 2049 and Arrival, which are brilliant films. That said a second Dune film that hits the mark could be his most impressive work, potential is there.

[Bael's Bastard]

I like this version of Dune for what it is. If they pull off the second just as well we will at least have a Dune that isn't embarrassing. But this version reminds me of statements by or reports of George saying that some had pitched films focusing on Jon and/or Dany and cutting out/down much of the rest. Paul is the main character of the first two books, but it's an ensemble cast, and the supporting characters were not given their necessary time, and couldn't have been in this format. A 10-13 episode series remains the only way to adapt Dune and do the important characters and concepts justice.

[Bael's Bastard]

I love movies, but it is kind of absurd to prefer characters in an epic series to go through their entire journeys in 2-3 hours. Technology has changed and it's no longer necessary to gut a story for lack of time.

[Clueless Northman]

On 1/14/2022 at 6:32 PM, Ran said:

Deadline has posted the screenplay, for anyone interested.

I did wonder one thing, so looked at the duel scene and Jamis is not described as screaming anything. Probably something Babs Olusanmokun came up with himself, given his martial arts background.

Oh nice!
About the screaming and thumping, it might be some ritualistic move before the duel, or Jamis' signature when fighting? After all, Paul makes some symbolic (for the Landsraad / Empire worlds probably) salute before engaging the fight.

[SpaceChampion]

On 12/17/2021 at 1:43 PM, Werthead said:

I suspect if we seen another Heinlein adapted, it'll be a more faithful version of Starship Troopers long before they get to Moon. A lot of Heinlein hasn't aged well and his central scientific ideas are less groundbreaking than Clarke or Asimov, though he has much greater facility with actual characters.

There is actually a Japanese adaptation of The Door Into Summer on Netflix.  I started watching it recently but was confused it wasn't Tunnel In The Sky, so turned it off before realizing my mistake.  But apparently it's a very faithful adaptation.

 

[Heartofice]

7 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:

I like this version of Dune for what it is. If they pull off the second just as well we will at least have a Dune that isn't embarrassing. But this version reminds me of statements by or reports of George saying that some had pitched films focusing on Jon and/or Dany and cutting out/down much of the rest. Paul is the main character of the first two books, but it's an ensemble cast, and the supporting characters were not given their necessary time, and couldn't have been in this format. A 10-13 episode series remains the only way to adapt Dune and do the important characters and concepts justice.

I've just re-read Dune and I've got mixed feelings on this now. After coming out of the movie I felt like the only way to do the book justice was with a longer mini series. That was mainly because I felt like the movie kind of struggled to encapsulate a lot of the ideas of the book or create that moment of tension and emotion when they kill of Leto etc, it felt a little rushed.

But at the same time, the book does feel like it fits neatly with a split, one half before Paul finds the Fremen and one half with a small time jump taking us to the end of the book. So two films does make logical sense (one film is madness).

Trying to get across the concepts and the wider story is always going to be a struggle, but can be hinted out. I'm not sure actually that there is a huge number of important supporting characters that need to fleshed out. I know people have their favourites, but I think the first movie used its time wisely when it comes to who it concentrated on (there are some weaknesses when it comes to actual characterisation and relationships, but not due to time)

I'm optimistic that a second movie will get the balance right, and will help to make the first movie feel a lot more complete. I'm interested to see how they will handle Paul's change over that time, his fear of his own Jihad and what he is unleashing.

[Bael's Bastard]

Many important characters and scenes were gutted and could have used the expansion afforded by a season. The weight of Dune as a season (or two) might have had a chance of equaling the weight of GOT seasons 1 and 3. As it is, even as someone very invested in the characters and story and is a big fan of Isaac and his casting, the death of Leto had almost no impact. Never mind characters like Yueh, Gurney, and Liet. It actually could have benefitted from an expansion of the story to include things that must have occurred but were not witnessed (like Duncan's time among the Fremen). I like it for what it was able to accomplish, but I have no question it does not live up to what it could be with a series.

[Heartofice]

18 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said:

Many important characters and scenes were gutted and could have used the expansion afforded by a season. The weight of Dune as a season (or two) might have had a chance of equaling the weight of GOT seasons 1 and 3. As it is, even as someone very invested in the characters and story and is a big fan of Isaac and his casting, the death of Leto had almost no impact. Never mind characters like Yueh, Gurney, and Liet. It actually could have benefitted from an expansion of the story to include things that must have occurred but were not witnessed (like Duncan's time among the Fremen). I like it for what it was able to accomplish, but I have no question it does not live up to what it could be with a series.

I’m not sure which characters have been gutted really. Duncan’s time with the fremen is only really ever talked about rather than shown in the books, I think the movie managed to show who Gurney is in a few scenes, what else would there need to be? Liet is maybe the one miss and would have preferred more expansion there.

I don’t think Dune has a ton of interesting side characters actually. 

 

[Kalbear]

Gurney, Thufir and Yueh were all given significantly less time, though probably Thufir was the big one - essentially all his plotline in the book was removed, including his dueling with Jessica and his teaching of Paul. 

[Werthead]

Yeah, Thufir and Yueh were gutted. Thufir you can kind of survive (he's really minor in the books) but not Yueh. It's the one clear area where Lynch was superior, making sure he characterised Yueh and set up his nuanced characterisation (Jessica discounts him as a traitor because of both his conditioning and his absolute hatred of the Harkonnens because of the death of his wife), not to mention casting Dean Stockwell in the role who absolutely played the shit out of it.

[ithanos]

Re-watched this again on the small screen and it holds up as probably the best film of 2021 for me. First saw it at a cinema and I was totally enthralled during the first hour and a half. Completely immersed in what Villeneuve was presenting. I don't think an introduction to the Dune universe could've been done better. Had not warmed to Timothee Chalamet in the trailers but he was a revelation as Paul. However, somewhere in the middle I needed to sit back for a second and ended up taking time to look around the cinema. This happened a couple more times before the end of the film and it took me a while to figure out what was pulling me out and I realised I was doing it whenever there was a scene in slow motion. The slow mo scenes in the first half didn't drain me but through the second half it became a bit too much, that's probably the biggest gripe I had with this first installment of a good adaptation.

On 12/18/2021 at 5:43 AM, Werthead said:

Yeah, Rendezvous with Rama is about the sheer mind-boggling size and spectacle of Rama itself. The book is thin on characterisation. The sequels do a lot better in that regard, but also turn into weird incest soap operas at times.

Lord of Light is way too gonzoid insane and I suspect Hollywood will regard it with suspicion about being possibly offensive to Indians (I don't know what Indian SF fans make of it).

Pretty sanguine to read about the prospect of a Rendezvous with Rama adaptation. I agree there is little characterisation in Clarke's work but the sheer imagining of Rama in all its scale & majesty more than makes up for it IMHO. We missed our chance when 'Oumuamua came and left but I'm hopeful Villeneuve can tease something just as tantalising and a bit more meat to the bones. As for Oumuamua? well, some things are done in threes.

With regard to Lord of Light, I'll be selfish and say I'd rather it never gets adapted as it has already been adapted in the cinema of my imagination. But if it does, then I can picture it being made by someone from the sub-continent (not you M.Night, sit this one out) and filmed in Central/South India, or even Sri Lanka where Hinduism has a strong presence but Buddhism is dominant.  

 

 

 

 

[DireWolfSpirit]

After reading this, I'm back at my original impression. The movie should've been (a lot) longer.

Hopefully pt 2 is at least 3+ hours or more like a proper movie for this much material needs.

 

Eta: Saying a movie is too long is like saying a piece of chocolate cake is too big.

[RumHam]

 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

This had me up-to but not-including the end. 

“Elmo must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
Elmo will face his fear.
Elmo will permit it to pass over him and through him.
And when it has gone past Elmo will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only Elmo will remain.”

-Elmo

[Zorral]

"Denis Villeneuve Updates On Dune Part Two; Promises ‘Much More Harkonnen Stuff’ – Exclusive"

https://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/denis-villeneuve-updates-dune-part-two-harkonnen-exclusive/

Quote

. . .  the filmmaker offered an update on the much-anticipated second film. “We are supposed to shoot by the end of the summer,” he says. “I will say it is mostly designed.  . . .

 

[Clueless Northman]

Much more Harkonnen means Feyd-Rautha, doesn't it?

[Zorral]

That's what the article which was linked stated.

[Zorral]

Dune, Part Two.

https://deadline.com/2022/03/dune-part-two-austin-butler-feyd-rautha-1234975465/