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The winds of winter predictions


Daenerysthegreat

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10 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

And stop taking his words literally. Neither is a he a liar who likes to deceive the readers nor is he a person who will give definite estimates on what will be what in the next book

There is a middle ground between saying his words are infallible and engraved in stone, and saying his words are worthless and should be given no weight at all.  It is not all or nothing.  That is my humble position.

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On 10/25/2021 at 2:59 AM, Mister Smikes said:

I would call these maybe semi-confirmed.  That "visiting with" necessarily implies "POV chapter" is maybe not an unreasonable inference, but it is not 100% to me.  I think with Cersei he may have actually referenced a "Cersei chapter" IIRC, which is a bit clearer, though it would be even clearer if he said he had actually finished it.

Ok, semi-confirmed. All right, then we'll use this term.

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Maybe you posted the wrong link?  The only thing this has is a "visiting Oldtown" reference, which does not to my mind confirm any Sam chapter, and there is no reference to Melisandre at all.

Maybe you're thinking of this:

Back in Westeros | Not a Blog (georgerrmartin.com)

Anyhow, if you're referring to what I think, "spending the days in Westeros with my pals Mel and Sam and Vic and Ty" is too ambiguous for me.  Is not Ty the actual name of one of his writing assistants?  Maybe Sam is helping him with a Mel chapter, and Ty his helping him with a Vic chapter.  And does "spending time" necessarily mean "writing a POV chapter for"?   And maybe Sam met Mel in Mel's POV, or in Sam's POV; or Sam (or Fake Sam) showed up in Meereen in Vic's POV, or maybe Tyrion flew his dragon to Oldtown, picked up Sam or Fake Sam, and flew him to the Wall to see Mel, etc., etc.

It looks like I used the wrong link, thanks for the comment. For the rest of your quote:
- If by Ty was meant the assistant Ty Franck, he would not be mentioned in the same paragraph with characters in Westeros such as Melisandre, Victarion, Samwell and Arya, because he has nothing to do with Westeros anymore (unlike Daniel Abraham who still works with George for, among other things, the graphic novel adaptations of the books).
- It has been customary for George since writing A Dance with Dragons to refer to the chapters he has worked on by their POV, if an ASOIAF character's name or nickname is mentioned.  There has never been a situation where George used the name of a non-POV character for that purpose. There is no such situation as "today I visited Shitmouth or Patchface in Westeros" or anything like that.

I would still say, these characters are semi-confirmed.

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Your "source 1" is his July 24, 2014 interview with Le Nouvel Observatuer, where he says "There are unicorns in my next book ..."   His next book, at this point, was TWOIAF, which came out 3 months later, and did indeed discuss unicorns to some extent.  One thing we learned is that they are not only on Skagos.  The "and probably sex near unicorns" part is just a joking reference to the fact that he does not feel bound by Rowling's rules about unicorns.

Your "source 2" is a 4/30/19 interview in The Guardian.  It does not mention WINDS at all.  It does not promise unicorns will "appear".  It merely promises an "interesting take" on unicorns, in future "books".  Besides WINDS there is also DREAM OF SPRING, FIRE & BLOOD 2, and DUNK & EGG.   It is a good guess that Asha and/or Rickon and/or Davos will return from Skagos some day, and will tell Sansa (or whoever) all about GRRM's "interesting take" on unicorns.  They might even bring a unicorn or two with them, and we will see them when (for instance) Sansa sees them.  Or maybe Danaerys will ride a unicorn some day.   Three mounts will she ride, after all, and she's already done the horse and the dragon.  Note also that we have already glimpsed a unicorn through a wolf-dream, and we did not need a Davos-POV for it.

Good point about World of Ice and Fire. I forgot about that book for a while, probably because I never bought or read it. I'm also not fully informed to what extent George worked on that book, I thought the vast majority was done by Elio and Garcia.

I can remove Davos from the list of "characters from whom there are clear indications that they will get a POV", but regardless of sources, I would personally be surprised if Davos' storyline in Skagos happened completely off-page.
 

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Like I said, this could be a one-off prologue.  He wasn't originally planning to do it, but when DANCE ended where it did, tradition gives him an opportunity to throw in a random POV as long as he dies.

A one-off prologue for Jon Connington seems unrealistic to me with the current state of the books. In the books, there has obviously been a lot of focus on Jon's greyscale that will certainly play a role in the story. George R. R. Martin is not the person who would have the character die in such a short period of time in a totally unrelated way, without any hints or foreshadowing. "Subverting expectations" without any build up is not George's modus operandi.


Eddard's and Catelyn's deaths were also unexpected, yet it was susceptible because of the distinctly melancholy atmosphere that hung in the chapters just before their deaths. It was also clear from the first chapter that Quentyn was going to fail, based on the constant sense of doom in the chapters.


Also, Jon Connington is the only POV with a personal connection to Aegon and that is of some importance. I assume that Aegon still has an important function in the plot and that his storyline is linked to Daenerys'. There's no reason why George would otherwise introduce another throne pretender so late in the book series.


I see no reason why Jon Connington would die before Aegon: his story arc is almost entirely linked to Aegon's.
 

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Might not happen til A DREAM OF SPRING.  Or Meera will tell the story to Sansa (or whoever).

Bran is one of the main characters of the book series and pretty much the first character from Westeros that George invented. If we can believe that Bran will also end up in some position of power at the end of the book series (more or less like in the TV series), then I still think that there will be a fair amount of time devoted to the character in The Winds of Winter to prepare for that.


Moreover, the general consensus is that magic will play a larger role after A Dance with Dragons. That's obvious after the many foreshadowing with Euron, Glass Candles, the Others, etc. There is no reason why Bran, the character connected with most of the magical elements, will be just about non-existent in the book.


Hodor's death will be important to Bran's story arc because it will happen as a result of Bran's own actions (he tangled in Hodor during various situations and in the long run that would have consequences). It's a moment that would be best shown through Bran's POV because it would put Bran's inner struggles front and center. After all, George places enormous importance on writing about "the human heart in conflict with itself," and Hodor's death is ideal for applying that. It's not something that will happen off-screen and be told by Meera to Sansa or something.

 
If there's one possible reason TWOW won't have a Bran POV, is if, like FeastDance, the book were to have a POV split on a geographical level. I don't see any other possibility. But George has indicated on several occasions that he is not in favor of a split of TWOW.

 

 

 

 

In my previous post I said:


“I don't see any necessity for a large amount of POVs from FeastDance not to appear in TWOW. It is perfectly feasible for George to have more than 13 POVs in a book. I don't see a problem that can only be solved by reducing the number of POVs in TWOW to 13. There are probably more efficient and less drastic solutions than that.”


I stand by that opinion. Based on how you would handle it, such as killing off previous POV characters in their first chapter in the book or making entire storylines off-page (at the expense of the character arc of certain POV characters)... Your way is far from ideal and would create more complications in the writing and end result than if the vast majority of POV characters from FeastDance just returned in TWOW.


One of the biggest reasons for removing the 5 year gap between A Storm of Swords and A Dance with Dragons, was also because Dance at the time was bogged down with exposition to explain what happened during that entire period. That's not desirable.


If we only had 13 POVs in TWOW the exact same problem would arise: the story would be bogged down with exposition to explain what happens in other characters' off-page storylines. TWOW would in that case be no better than if all POVs were retained (except for the individuals who dislike most POV characters).

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10 hours ago, $erPounce said:

Ok, semi-confirmed. All right, then we'll use this term.

Fair.  Is it also fair to say that his statements in various contexts about 13 POVs or 16 POVS also have some weight as evidence, against which these semi-confirmations can be weighed and considered as well?

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It looks like I used the wrong link, thanks for the comment. For the rest of your quote:
- If by Ty was meant the assistant Ty Franck, he would not be mentioned in the same paragraph with characters in Westeros such as Melisandre, Victarion, Samwell and Arya, because he has nothing to do with Westeros anymore (unlike Daniel Abraham who still works with George for, among other things, the graphic novel adaptations of the books).
- It has been customary for George since writing A Dance with Dragons to refer to the chapters he has worked on by their POV, if an ASOIAF character's name or nickname is mentioned.  There has never been a situation where George used the name of a non-POV character for that purpose. There is no such situation as "today I visited Shitmouth or Patchface in Westeros" or anything like that.

I would still say, these characters are semi-confirmed.

I will admit that when I first read this line it went over my head.  He's never called Tyrion "Ty" before, AFAIK, and I knew Ty had been an assistant.  And in the same post he was taking about hiring 3 new assistants.  So now he has 4?  But it would be a bit much, to be sure, if his 4 assistants just happened to be called Mel and Sam and Vic and Ty.

Moving on to the assumption he is talking only about characters, which I guess is almost certainly the case:

Note that Mel and Sam and Vic and Ty are described as being in "Westeros" in contrast to the girl with no name who is still in "Braavos".  Does he really mean this, or is "Westeros" just shorthand for what the fans call "Planetos"?  If the former, could it be that all 4 are at the Wall (or wherever), and the entire chapter is being told from Tyrion's POV?  

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I can remove Davos from the list of "characters from whom there are clear indications that they will get a POV", but regardless of sources, I would personally be surprised if Davos' storyline in Skagos happened completely off-page.

Thanks for being so reasonable.  Now I feel I should be reasonable and make concessions too.  But damn!  I'm just too argumentative!  Oh well, I'll do what I can.

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A one-off prologue for Jon Connington seems unrealistic to me with the current state of the books. In the books, there has obviously been a lot of focus on Jon's greyscale that will certainly play a role in the story. George R. R. Martin is not the person who would have the character die in such a short period of time in a totally unrelated way, without any hints or foreshadowing. "Subverting expectations" without any build up is not George's modus operandi.

Eddard's and Catelyn's deaths were also unexpected, yet it was susceptible because of the distinctly melancholy atmosphere that hung in the chapters just before their deaths. It was also clear from the first chapter that Quentyn was going to fail, based on the constant sense of doom in the chapters.

Also, Jon Connington is the only POV with a personal connection to Aegon and that is of some importance. I assume that Aegon still has an important function in the plot and that his storyline is linked to Daenerys'. There's no reason why George would otherwise introduce another throne pretender so late in the book series.

I see no reason why Jon Connington would die before Aegon: his story arc is almost entirely linked to Aegon's.

My suggestion, though, was not that the prologue chapter would be a JonCon chapter.  My suggestion was that it would be a traditional prologue chapter featuring any poor slob, not previously featured as a POV character. 

Thereafter, it is perfectly plausible that JonCon and Young Griff will continue as characters indefinitely, in Arianne's POV.  And if JonCon ends up eventually dying in someone else's POV, that is no different than happened with to poor Ned, as well as Arys Oakheart.

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Bran is one of the main characters of the book series and pretty much the first character from Westeros that George invented. If we can believe that Bran will also end up in some position of power at the end of the book series (more or less like in the TV series), then I still think that there will be a fair amount of time devoted to the character in The Winds of Winter to prepare for that.

Moreover, the general consensus is that magic will play a larger role after A Dance with Dragons. That's obvious after the many foreshadowing with Euron, Glass Candles, the Others, etc. There is no reason why Bran, the character connected with most of the magical elements, will be just about non-existent in the book.

I never suggested he would be non-existent.  He is now poised to appear in the POVs of other characters, as he may already have done with Theon.  He may even be approaching, or have surpassed, the point where he cannot actually have a POV because he knows too much.

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Hodor's death will be important to Bran's story arc because it will happen as a result of Bran's own actions (he tangled in Hodor during various situations and in the long run that would have consequences). It's a moment that would be best shown through Bran's POV because it would put Bran's inner struggles front and center. After all, George places enormous importance on writing about "the human heart in conflict with itself," and Hodor's death is ideal for applying that. It's not something that will happen off-screen and be told by Meera to Sansa or something.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  These sort of artistic arguments go beyond  the point where we can claim chapters are "confirmed".   But I can imagine all sorts of artistic possibilities, and GRRM, no doubt, can imagine artistic possibilities that have not occurred to either of us.

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If there's one possible reason TWOW won't have a Bran POV, is if, like FeastDance, the book were to have a POV split on a geographical level. I don't see any other possibility. But George has indicated on several occasions that he is not in favor of a split of TWOW.

My assumption is that his 13 POV reference was to WINDS and his 16 POV reference was to the rest of the series, and was not intended in the context of a split.  And again, with a margin of error.  But again, 18+ POVs for me is a bridge too far.  I have seemingly whittled you down to 17+ POVs, so maybe that's just a little closer to where we could agree to disagree.

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In my previous post I said:
“I don't see any necessity for a large amount of POVs from FeastDance not to appear in TWOW. It is perfectly feasible for George to have more than 13 POVs in a book. I don't see a problem that can only be solved by reducing the number of POVs in TWOW to 13. There are probably more efficient and less drastic solutions than that.”
I stand by that opinion.

GRRM has bitten off more than he can chew and there may be no artistically ideal solution to the problems he now faces.  However, nothing I have said was intended to imply a drastic change of course.  I believe he always intended to focus on the Main 6, I believe all the extra POVs were introduced for limited and temporary purposes, and I believe he always intended to bring the threads of the story together where he could once again focus on the Main 6.  I believe he has, to some extent, been working on these goals, in ways not necessarily obvious to readers, throughout FEAST and DANCE.

I think all the secondary POVs exist to set up surprises for the main POVs.  He takes them far enough to give us clues.  Then, when we have enough clues, he drops them, and we must wait for the surprises.

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Based on how you would handle it, such as killing off previous POV characters in their first chapter in the book

I never suggested any such thing. 

Brienne's POV has already ended.  Whatever happened after we screamed her word, me missed it.  From now on, in the Vale, or KL, or Winterfell, others will have to guess the identity of whatever mystery warriors appear.

Jaime's POV has maybe already ended as well.  Whatever happened after Brienne lured him away for his day's ride, we have missed it.  When he shows up in KL, or wherever, we will see him through the eyes of others, and have to guess whether he is alive or undead.

Samwell's POV has maybe already ended.  When he returns North, claiming to have secrets that will help them fight the White Walkers, Sansa or Arya or Theon or Davos or whoever will not know whether this is really Sam, or Fake Sam the Faceless Man.   

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or making entire storylines off-page

Storylines can go off-POV without going off page.  Sandor is a fairly vivid character, without once ever having received a POV chapter.

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If we only had 13 POVs in TWOW the exact same problem would arise: the story would be bogged down with exposition to explain what happens in other characters' off-page storylines. TWOW would in that case be no better than if all POVs were retained (except for the individuals who dislike most POV characters).

If the storylines are really coming together, and GRRM says they are, then we are going to have the Main 6 react to the news anyhow.   And maybe GRRM wants the Main 6 to be surprised by the news, and the reader along with them.   And if it doesn't effect the Main 6, maybe we don't need to hear so much about it.  Something's got to give.  You can't have breathtaking breathtaking scope, and intimate intimate focus at the same time. 

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I am very skeptical that GRRM has limited himself to only 13 POVs for WOW.  From what I remember of the interview, he was commenting on the fact that his number of POVs had mushroomed.  He said something to the effect that at the beginning of the book he has around 13POVs, but by the end he has less than that.  (Nothing about the middle).  He comments that is way more than the 7 he had in AGOT (actually he had 8).  This is hardly a clear and precise statement, and I did not get the impression that he was in any way limiting himself to only 13 POVs for the entire book.  Winnowing them down to a dozen or so shouldn't be a problem.  Consolidation of story lines and deaths should be able to do the trick.

As mentioned above, the big problem with only 13 POVs is that it leaves gaping holes in the story, and renders many important elements effectively incoherent, either leaving them untold, or requiring after-the-fact exposition, neither of which I blieve GRRM is inclined to do.  Until I get more definitive information (or anything truly determinative, period), I am going to assume a full slate of POVs.  It is doable, so long as you have at least 80 or so chapters to work with.

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On 10/27/2021 at 5:28 AM, Nevets said:

I am very skeptical that GRRM has limited himself to only 13 POVs for WOW.  From what I remember of the interview, he was commenting on the fact that his number of POVs had mushroomed.  He said something to the effect that at the beginning of the book he has around 13POVs, but by the end he has less than that.  (Nothing about the middle).  He comments that is way more than the 7 he had in AGOT (actually he had 8).  This is hardly a clear and precise statement, and I did not get the impression that he was in any way limiting himself to only 13 POVs for the entire book.  Winnowing them down to a dozen or so shouldn't be a problem.  Consolidation of story lines and deaths should be able to do the trick.

As mentioned above, the big problem with only 13 POVs is that it leaves gaping holes in the story, and renders many important elements effectively incoherent, either leaving them untold, or requiring after-the-fact exposition, neither of which I blieve GRRM is inclined to do.  Until I get more definitive information (or anything truly determinative, period), I am going to assume a full slate of POVs.  It is doable, so long as you have at least 80 or so chapters to work with.

I think you are right.

That said I wish George Martin would use after-the-fact exposition more and save us these second, third and fourth-tier POVs. That's because doing his exposition through creating POVs just for this purpose is even more cumbersome than after-the-fact exposition and slows the story down. Also are holes in the story really all that bad? Why do we need to know everything? I think the story would go a lot more smoothly if he had the courage to leave gaps here and there. It's not like we know everything there is to know about the real world either after all.

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16 hours ago, Amris said:

I think you are right.

That said I wish George Martin would use after-the-fact exposition more and save us these second, third and fourth-tier POVs. That's because doing his exposition through creating POVs just for this purpose is even more cumbersome than after-the-fact exposition and slows the story down. Also are holes in the story really all that bad? Why do we need to know everything? I think the story would go a lot more smoothly if he had the courage to leave gaps here and there. It's not like we know everything there is to know about the real world either after all.

I don't think there are any tier of pov. All pov are important in their own way. None are supporting characters. Just because a pov isn't introduced in the first book doesn't mean they are supporting characters. 

I wish Mr Martin would scrap the third person limited way of narration and give us third person omniscient. That would be better. 

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I feel that the or one of the lords of Skagos will have taken Rickon under his wing and began to raise him as his son by the time Davos finds Rickon, and that Rickon also will have a skinchanging master to help him train and fully control and developp his abilities. 

There might also be several weirwood trees allowing Bloodraven to keep an eye on Skagos and on Rickon.

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19 hours ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

I feel that the or one of the lords of Skagos will have taken Rickon under his wing and began to raise him as his son by the time Davos finds Rickon, and that Rickon also will have a skinchanging master to help him train and fully control and developp his abilities. 

There might also be several weirwood trees allowing Bloodraven to keep an eye on Skagos and on Rickon.

I like this. This is certainly possible. 

16 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

So what’s the latest. Is George even writing the book anymore?

The book is almost complete I think

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  • 3 weeks later...

My, my, my has this thread been thoroughly entertaining

On 11/1/2021 at 5:58 AM, Amris said:

think you are right.

That said I wish George Martin would use after-the-fact exposition more and save us these second, third and fourth-tier POVs. That's because doing his exposition through creating POVs just for this purpose is even more cumbersome than after-the-fact exposition and slows the story down. Also are holes in the story really all that bad? Why do we need to know everything? I think the story would go a lot more smoothly if he had the courage to leave gaps here and there. It's not like we know everything there is to know about the real world either after all.

I disagree. Too much after-the-fact exposition will cause us to end up with a long Wikipedia summary article than a chapter of literature. Too much offscreen action would piss people off. Imagine if we only got the Red Wedding or the Walk of Shame or Dany hatching offscreen.

And yes. Holes in the story are really that bad.

Don't believe me...watch the TV show. Particularly the final episode where we literally went from one cutscene to another cutscene.

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  • 5 months later...

A theory I had about Jaime and Catelyn is that Catelyn will make Jaime do a serious favor for her and the brotherhood in exchange for freeing Brienne and the other hostages. Knowing about the spy the brotherhood had in Jaime’s camp, they’ll make him get the hostages out of the Twins (and maybe kill some Freys along the way) since Jaime told the Freys that the hostages have to be sent to the Iron Throne in King’s Landing.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/13/2022 at 4:15 PM, SeanBeanedMeUp said:

I hope we get some info about House Dayne. The house's words have not been revealed because GRRM said it would spoil too much of the story so I am really intrigued as what George has in mind for that house.

I think that whatever House Dayne is up to is going to be directly tied to Jon Snow and his true identity along with the mystery of what happened between Ashara, Ned, and the Kingsguard.

And I think that it's all going to unfold concurrently in an Areo chapter and a Bran chapter

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On 5/23/2022 at 7:44 AM, BlackLightning said:

I think that whatever House Dayne is up to is going to be directly tied to Jon Snow and his true identity along with the mystery of what happened between Ashara, Ned, and the Kingsguard.

And I think that it's all going to unfold concurrently in an Areo chapter and a Bran chapter

I really wonder which Dayne character will be there to help fight with Jon Snow. Edric was supposed to be one but GRRM planned for a five year gap where Edric got old enough to weidl Dawn but after realizing that wasn't going to work I think he's honestly struggling to come up with a good replacement storyline.

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1 minute ago, SeanBeanedMeUp said:

I really wonder which Dayne character will be there to help fight with Jon Snow. Edric was supposed to be one but GRRM planned for a five year gap where Edric got old enough to weidl Dawn but after realizing that wasn't going to work I think he's honestly struggling to come up with a good replacement storyline.

I think Ser Gerold was an aged-up Edric Dayne replacement. I don't know if he still is but given how the Darkstar was randomly given such a big role in a soon-to-be big Dornish storylines....that's what I think.

GRRM has seemed to resigned himself to his fate. He said something along the lines of "if a twelve year old is going to end up saving the world, then so be it."

So, we might actually see Edric and Jon fighting side-by-side. Edric will just be 12

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On 10/26/2021 at 10:19 PM, Mister Smikes said:

Fair.  Is it also fair to say that his statements in various contexts about 13 POVs or 16 POVS also have some weight as evidence, against which these semi-confirmations can be weighed and considered as well?

I will admit that when I first read this line it went over my head.  He's never called Tyrion "Ty" before, AFAIK, and I knew Ty had been an assistant.  And in the same post he was taking about hiring 3 new assistants.  So now he has 4?  But it would be a bit much, to be sure, if his 4 assistants just happened to be called Mel and Sam and Vic and Ty.

Moving on to the assumption he is talking only about characters, which I guess is almost certainly the case:

Note that Mel and Sam and Vic and Ty are described as being in "Westeros" in contrast to the girl with no name who is still in "Braavos".  Does he really mean this, or is "Westeros" just shorthand for what the fans call "Planetos"?  If the former, could it be that all 4 are at the Wall (or wherever), and the entire chapter is being told from Tyrion's POV?  

Thanks for being so reasonable.  Now I feel I should be reasonable and make concessions too.  But damn!  I'm just too argumentative!  Oh well, I'll do what I can.

My suggestion, though, was not that the prologue chapter would be a JonCon chapter.  My suggestion was that it would be a traditional prologue chapter featuring any poor slob, not previously featured as a POV character. 

Thereafter, it is perfectly plausible that JonCon and Young Griff will continue as characters indefinitely, in Arianne's POV.  And if JonCon ends up eventually dying in someone else's POV, that is no different than happened with to poor Ned, as well as Arys Oakheart.

I never suggested he would be non-existent.  He is now poised to appear in the POVs of other characters, as he may already have done with Theon.  He may even be approaching, or have surpassed, the point where he cannot actually have a POV because he knows too much.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  These sort of artistic arguments go beyond  the point where we can claim chapters are "confirmed".   But I can imagine all sorts of artistic possibilities, and GRRM, no doubt, can imagine artistic possibilities that have not occurred to either of us.

My assumption is that his 13 POV reference was to WINDS and his 16 POV reference was to the rest of the series, and was not intended in the context of a split.  And again, with a margin of error.  But again, 18+ POVs for me is a bridge too far.  I have seemingly whittled you down to 17+ POVs, so maybe that's just a little closer to where we could agree to disagree.

GRRM has bitten off more than he can chew and there may be no artistically ideal solution to the problems he now faces.  However, nothing I have said was intended to imply a drastic change of course.  I believe he always intended to focus on the Main 6, I believe all the extra POVs were introduced for limited and temporary purposes, and I believe he always intended to bring the threads of the story together where he could once again focus on the Main 6.  I believe he has, to some extent, been working on these goals, in ways not necessarily obvious to readers, throughout FEAST and DANCE.

I think all the secondary POVs exist to set up surprises for the main POVs.  He takes them far enough to give us clues.  Then, when we have enough clues, he drops them, and we must wait for the surprises.

I never suggested any such thing. 

Brienne's POV has already ended.  Whatever happened after we screamed her word, me missed it.  From now on, in the Vale, or KL, or Winterfell, others will have to guess the identity of whatever mystery warriors appear.

Jaime's POV has maybe already ended as well.  Whatever happened after Brienne lured him away for his day's ride, we have missed it.  When he shows up in KL, or wherever, we will see him through the eyes of others, and have to guess whether he is alive or undead.

Samwell's POV has maybe already ended.  When he returns North, claiming to have secrets that will help them fight the White Walkers, Sansa or Arya or Theon or Davos or whoever will not know whether this is really Sam, or Fake Sam the Faceless Man.   

Storylines can go off-POV without going off page.  Sandor is a fairly vivid character, without once ever having received a POV chapter.

If the storylines are really coming together, and GRRM says they are, then we are going to have the Main 6 react to the news anyhow.   And maybe GRRM wants the Main 6 to be surprised by the news, and the reader along with them.   And if it doesn't effect the Main 6, maybe we don't need to hear so much about it.  Something's got to give.  You can't have breathtaking breathtaking scope, and intimate intimate focus at the same time. 

ser pounce is obviously more correct, mister smikes not so much. it seems clear 13 will end up being 5-7 POVs short.  whether it was a well-thought out intention that will have to be revised, or a premature and off-the-cuff guesstimate, it's not enough

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 5/25/2022 at 2:03 PM, BlackLightning said:

I think Ser Gerold was an aged-up Edric Dayne replacement. I don't know if he still is but given how the Darkstar was randomly given such a big role in a soon-to-be big Dornish storylines....that's what I think.

GRRM has seemed to resigned himself to his fate. He said something along the lines of "if a twelve year old is going to end up saving the world, then so be it."

So, we might actually see Edric and Jon fighting side-by-side. Edric will just be 12

It'd be funny if the douchebag guy is the one who helps save the world lol.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 5/23/2022 at 10:44 AM, BlackLightning said:

I think that whatever House Dayne is up to is going to be directly tied to Jon Snow and his true identity along with the mystery of what happened between Ashara, Ned, and the Kingsguard.

And I think that it's all going to unfold concurrently in an Areo chapter and a Bran chapter

I hope Areo’s final chapter is him fighting Gerold.  And Dayne is wielding Dawn.  So we’d  get a pov perspective of a badass like Hotah succumbing to the greatness of Dawn.  That would be a helluva introduction for the legendary sword.

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