Aerea Targaryen / Euron Greyjoy

[Mugunthan Targaryen]

I say... Euron greyjoy never visited Valyria (or)  not even near the valyrian coast.  I think the reader (Rodrik Harlaw)  is right. After we know what happened to Aerea targaryen,  we can see that no one can  visit valyria and came back and alive. (Even Balerion the black dread came back with wounds) Still, I can't guess where he get that Dragonbinder. It may be fake like Joramun's horn but the red priest moqqoro says it has valyrian glyphs in it. ( This is my theory.  I don't know... maybe valyria beacame less dangerous after all these years.)....But If that dragonbinder is fake, I am going to really feel bad for my favorite character "The Iron Captain". Please share your thoughts.... 

[rotting sea cow]

13 minutes ago, Mugunthan Targaryen said:

I can't guess where he get that Dragonbinder.

from the warlocks he captured, maybe.

[Lord Varys]

1 minute ago, rotting sea cow said:

from the warlocks he captured, maybe.

Yes, the alternative scenario is that Dragonbinder is an artificact of the Undying Pyat Pree found among the ruins after Daenerys left Qarth. Something he realized he could use as a weapon against her and her dragon.

Ran has revealed that George was rather tight-lipped about the backstory of Qarth when they did TWoIaF, so there is a good chance that there plot-relevant details there he didn't want to reveal at this point.

The idea would be that either the ancient Qaathi/Qartheen clashed with the dragonlords at one time, capturing some of their more powerful magical artifacts or, more likely, that one of the Undying actually was a Valyrian dragonlord of old - exiled to Qarth after one of their civil wars or power struggles and he took Dragonbinder with him.

Something like that could also help explain why (1) the Undying were interested in Daenerys Targaryen, specifically, and (2) why and how the Undying knew/revealed so much about her destiny.

Sure, 'just magic' could also explain that, but it would work even better if one of the Undying - perhaps even the person who started that whole spell with the magical heart - was a Valyrian dragonlord.

That way Euron could also become a great danger to Daenerys because if he learned secrets about Valyrian magic from Pyat Pree we have no idea what he could do to her or her dragons.

The idea that Euron could gain such knowledge or such artifacts simply by visiting Valyria makes less sense. The place has been utterly destroyed, and whatever dwells there would be monstrous and well beyond anything he could hope to control.

[Lord Lannister]

5 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

from the warlocks he captured, maybe.

My thoughts have ran somewhere along these lines. Euron isn't exactly the most trustworthy individual and the Undying storyline never really had any payoff to the overall plot so far.

[hodortargaryen]

5 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

from the warlocks he captured, maybe.

I mostly agree with this as well. However, I can't square either option (the horn came from Valyria / the horn came from the warlocks) with how close the description of Mance's "fake horn of winter" is to the description of Dragonbinder. Are those two horns connected in some way? It seems like they have to be. Could this be a hint that Dragonbinder is fake? Or, could it mean that Mance's horn was actually another dragon-horn, but not Joramun's horn? Its runes do glow in the fire. I can't figure it out.

[Jaenara Belarys]

I think it's more that Euron captured the dragonhorn from Pyat or found one in Asshai or something. But even if he did, magic probably takes a long time to learn, beyond parlor tricks. 

11 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

The idea that Euron could gain such knowledge or such artifacts simply by visiting Valyria makes less sense. The place has been utterly destroyed, and whatever dwells there would be monstrous and well beyond anything he could hope to control.

So is the idea that Pyat can simply tell him what to do. I mean, it's not Harry Potter magic, where you just wave a wand and say funny words. With that said...do you guys think that Euron is Urrathon Night-Walker? Urrathon is a vaguely Ironborn name...and there's the King Badbrother, which Euron is. It would help explain how he learns such stuff. 

[hodortargaryen]

2 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

do you guys think that Euron is Urrathon Night-Walker? Urrathon is a vaguely Ironborn name...and there's the King Badbrother, which Euron is. It would help explain how he learns such stuff. 

Yes, I 100% subscribe to this theory. It makes sense for Euron to have left Qarth around the time the warlocks did, and that's he captured them and got the shade-of-the-evening cask.

[rotting sea cow]

12 hours ago, hodortargaryen said:

I mostly agree with this as well. However, I can't square either option (the horn came from Valyria / the horn came from the warlocks) with how close the description of Mance's "fake horn of winter" is to the description of Dragonbinder. Are those two horns connected in some way? It seems like they have to be. Could this be a hint that Dragonbinder is fake? Or, could it mean that Mance's horn was actually another dragon-horn, but not Joramun's horn? Its runes do glow in the fire. I can't figure it out.

yes, it's something to chew, it might well be that Dragonbinder doesn't work as advertised which is why Euron gave it to Victarion (imho, Euron has now other plans that don't include Daenerys and her dragons and he also needs to get rid of Vic).

If you want to look for the the Horn of Winter, you might need to pay more attention to the horn that Sam is carrying.

 

[rotting sea cow]

6 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

.do you guys think that Euron is Urrathon Night-Walker? Urrathon is a vaguely Ironborn name...and there's the King Badbrother, which Euron is. It would help explain how he learns such stuff. 

I do think that Urrathon Night-Walker may be Euron under disguise. So, he might also have a Glass Candle.

The main issue is then why Euron didn't attempt to approach Dany in Quarth, but a lot might just to boil down on authorial choices. I always found the plotting around Qarth quite clumsy in comparison to other parts of the story. At the same time Euron was just taking shape in our author mind.

[rotting sea cow]

18 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Yes, the alternative scenario is that Dragonbinder is an artificact of the Undying Pyat Pree found among the ruins after Daenerys left Qarth. Something he realized he could use as a weapon against her and her dragon.

Ran has revealed that George was rather tight-lipped about the backstory of Qarth when they did TWoIaF, so there is a good chance that there plot-relevant details there he didn't want to reveal at this point.

The idea would be that either the ancient Qaathi/Qartheen clashed with the dragonlords at one time, capturing some of their more powerful magical artifacts or, more likely, that one of the Undying actually was a Valyrian dragonlord of old - exiled to Qarth after one of their civil wars or power struggles and he took Dragonbinder with him.

Something like that could also help explain why (1) the Undying were interested in Daenerys Targaryen, specifically, and (2) why and how the Undying knew/revealed so much about her destiny.

Sure, 'just magic' could also explain that, but it would work even better if one of the Undying - perhaps even the person who started that whole spell with the magical heart - was a Valyrian dragonlord.

That way Euron could also become a great danger to Daenerys because if he learned secrets about Valyrian magic from Pyat Pree we have no idea what he could do to her or her dragons.

The idea that Euron could gain such knowledge or such artifacts simply by visiting Valyria makes less sense. The place has been utterly destroyed, and whatever dwells there would be monstrous and well beyond anything he could hope to control.

As I said above, I doubt that GRRM had everything in mind regarding Qarth and Euron when he wrote ACOK. Part of the plotting seems to be somewhat clumsy.

But, overall agree with you. My take is, as Xaro said, the Undying were not nearly as powerful as they used to be when we meet them, but plainly they realized that their power will increase if they capture Dany. It's also possible they do not understand fully why is happening and why certain things that weren't working for centuries are working now (much alike with the alchemists and wildfire). 

Regardless the origin of Dragonbinder, I think it's highly likely that Euron took it from the Warlocks. More uncertain is what it does and why Euron decided to give it to Victarion. Euron also took the Shade of the Evening and likely that Valyrian steel armor that he's wearing in "The Forsaken". Maybe a few treasures more. Euron has been also forcing the warlocks to perform spells for him, but something happened that he got angry with them.

It's highly likely that Euron has a Glass Candle with him, but whether he also took it from the warlocks or he had it before is less clear to me. The Urrathon Night Walker theory might suggest the later.

So, overall Euron is positioning himself as the most powerful magic actor. Not for the good of course and might be very dangerous for Dany in many ways. This is why I think that Euron will head to Oldtown sooner or later as the Citadel holds many treasures that might be very useful for Euron. Also, Sam is there to tell us what it's going on and he has a mysterious horn with him.

Another interesting thing is that Euron might also be that Corsair King who visited Astapor ahead of Dany. Why would Euron need to buy a 100 of Unsullied? My take is he did want to explore Valyria and only Unsullied of all the slaves would do the task. Euron as the Corsair King might also play a role in the battle of the Arbor straits. If you pay attention a big part of the Iron Fleet that went through the Northern part of Sotheryos is now missing in Victarion's fleet. They might well be returning to Westeros with a big fleet of pirates. Euron is also wearing a strange crown in The Forsaken, not the driftwood one of the Ironborn.

 

 

 

 

 

[Lord Varys]

4 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

As I said above, I doubt that GRRM had everything in mind regarding Qarth and Euron when he wrote ACOK. Part of the plotting seems to be somewhat clumsy.

I actually don't think so. Euron is already in the works during ACoK since Theon thinks about him and it is quite clear that Pyat Pree is going to go after Daenerys. There is also the whole weirwood and shade of the evening thing. There are subtle parallels there and it seems as if George is setting something up there already.

4 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

But, overall agree with you. My take is, as Xaro said, the Undying were not nearly as powerful as they used to be when we meet them, but plainly they realized that their power will increase if they capture Dany. It's also possible they do not understand fully why is happening and why certain things that weren't working for centuries are working now (much alike with the alchemists and wildfire). 

Magic got more powerful because of the dragons, of course, but the Undying were interested in Daenerys, not her dragons. Only Drogon accompanied her, after all, and he thwarted the plans of the Undying, meaning they either underestimated or foolishly ignored the dragon(s).

4 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

Regardless the origin of Dragonbinder, I think it's highly likely that Euron took it from the Warlocks. More uncertain is what it does and why Euron decided to give it to Victarion. Euron also took the Shade of the Evening and likely that Valyrian steel armor that he's wearing in "The Forsaken". Maybe a few treasures more. Euron has been also forcing the warlocks to perform spells for him, but something happened that he got angry with them.

The Valyrian armor also indicates that the Undying must have had some connections with the dragonlords, i.e. one of their own was an exiled dragonlord who brought the horn and the armor to Qarth. The idea that Valyrian armor and a horn like Dragonbinder is just lying around in the inferno that's Valyria right now is very unlikely, even less so that some pirate can just grab it. Realistically, artifacts like that would have been somewhere in the ruins of the topless towers of the dragonlords - and if any such ruins still existed, it would be very difficult to get there - not to mention to survive such a journey.

I'm pretty sure Euron was perfectly candid with Vic about the horn - it is supposed to control the dragons. Whether that's actually what it does is another matter.

4 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

It's highly likely that Euron has a Glass Candle with him, but whether he also took it from the warlocks or he had it before is less clear to me. The Urrathon Night Walker theory might suggest the later.

I don't think Euron was in Qarth back when Dany showed up there. Then he would have tried to hook up with her then and there. He would have chanced on Pyat Pree and his warlocks somewhere in the Summer Sea or, perhaps, even the Narrow Sea. Euron needs time to show up at Pyke in ASoS after hiring a Faceless Man to take out Balon.

4 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

So, overall Euron is positioning himself as the most powerful magic actor. Not for the good of course and might be very dangerous for Dany in many ways. This is why I think that Euron will head to Oldtown sooner or later as the Citadel holds many treasures that might be very useful for Euron. Also, Sam is there to tell us what it's going on and he has a mysterious horn with him.

So far Euron shows no interest in Oldtown. That might change, but I think he'll have no trouble getting there after the Redwynes are defeated. The Hightowers are likely going to receive as an honored guest then, giving him a tour of the Citadel if that's what he wants. At this point, Euron has more powerful magical artifacts than anyone in the Citadel. The maesters have glass candles and ancient books. Euron has Dragonbinder, Valyrian armor, and shade of the evening.

 

[hodortargaryen]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

I'm pretty sure Euron was perfectly candid with Vic about the horn - it is supposed to control the dragons. Whether that's actually what it does is another matter.

Euron might not even know if the horn works or not. How could he? He hasn't been able to test it out on actual dragons.

[Lord Varys]

3 hours ago, hodortargaryen said:

Euron might not even know if the horn works or not. How could he? He hasn't been able to test it out on actual dragons.

True enough, but Pyat Pree most likely told Euron whatever he believed the horn could do.

[hodortargaryen]

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

True enough, but Pyat Pree most likely told Euron whatever he believed the horn could do.

Definitely. And either one could have figured it out if either is able to read Valyrian glyphs.

[rotting sea cow]

18 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

So far Euron shows no interest in Oldtown.

That's not correct. He already tried.

Quote

"My apologies," the captain said when his inspection was complete. "It grieves me that honest men must suffer such discourtesy, but sooner that than ironmen in Oldtown. Only a fortnight ago some of those bloody bastards captured a Tyroshi merchantman in the straits. They killed her crew, donned their clothes, and used the dyes they found to color their whiskers half a hundred colors. Once inside the walls they meant to set the port ablaze and open a gate from within whilst we fought the fire. Might have worked, but they ran afoul of the Lady of the Tower, and her oarsmaster has a Tyroshi wife. When he saw all the green and purple beards he hailed them in the tongue of Tyrosh, and not one of them had the words to hail him back."

Sam was aghast. "They cannot mean to raid Oldtown."

AFFC - Samwell V

 

[Lord Varys]

3 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

That's not correct. He already tried.

AFFC - Samwell V

Yes, but that just seems to have been a way to pass the time and keep his Ironborn sweet. Euron has no interest in the Reach at all. He just conquered the Shields to further weaken the other Greyjoys (by naming crucial allies of theirs the new lords of the Shields and then abandoning them to their deaths), strengthen his own position as a great warrior king/strategist. Afterwards, he intended to push on to Slaver's Bay ... which he couldn't do because his stupid people were still not willing to follow him there. Which is why he sent Victarion.

Now he has to wait for news about Daenerys and Victarion and he has to deal with the Redwyne fleet (which he wouldn't have to if the entire Ironborn fleet had gone east as he intended). The Redwynes he can very likely defeat with magic and stuff, but trying to conquer Oldtown would very likely be a Pyrrhic victory. The Hightowers would fight back hard and the numbers are on their side. The Hightower is very difficult to take, and if savage Ironborn were to spoil the Starry Sept most/all the pious folk of Westeros might unite in a crusade against the Ironborn (especially in light of the sparrow movement and the restoration of the Faith Militant).

If Euron wanted Oldtown - or something in Oldtown - the war council were he suggested they go to Slaver's Bay would have discussed his plans to conquer Oldtown. We would also have heard in the Forsaken chapter that Euron wants to take Oldtown. But neither happened.

The only way Euron can continue to be a major player is if he shows his smiling eye again after he has crushed the Redwynes and taken the Arbor. He has to offer the Hightowers very favorable terms if they bend the knee, possibly even given them gifts (say, more lands, fewer taxes, etc.) if they acknowledge him as their new king. If he doesn't do that, he has no chance to ever win the Iron Throne ... which is something he can only do if he has allies on the mainland and if not everybody views him as a sorcerer demon-king.

[Mithras]

On 9/21/2021 at 4:52 PM, Lord Varys said:

Yes, the alternative scenario is that Dragonbinder is an artificact of the Undying Pyat Pree found among the ruins after Daenerys left Qarth. Something he realized he could use as a weapon against her and her dragon.

Ran has revealed that George was rather tight-lipped about the backstory of Qarth when they did TWoIaF, so there is a good chance that there plot-relevant details there he didn't want to reveal at this point.

The idea would be that either the ancient Qaathi/Qartheen clashed with the dragonlords at one time, capturing some of their more powerful magical artifacts or, more likely, that one of the Undying actually was a Valyrian dragonlord of old - exiled to Qarth after one of their civil wars or power struggles and he took Dragonbinder with him.

Something like that could also help explain why (1) the Undying were interested in Daenerys Targaryen, specifically, and (2) why and how the Undying knew/revealed so much about her destiny.

Sure, 'just magic' could also explain that, but it would work even better if one of the Undying - perhaps even the person who started that whole spell with the magical heart - was a Valyrian dragonlord.

That way Euron could also become a great danger to Daenerys because if he learned secrets about Valyrian magic from Pyat Pree we have no idea what he could do to her or her dragons.

The idea that Euron could gain such knowledge or such artifacts simply by visiting Valyria makes less sense. The place has been utterly destroyed, and whatever dwells there would be monstrous and well beyond anything he could hope to control.

You don't learn the secrets of Valyrian magic from a fraud, especially during a such a short time. Euron is not a magic user. Euron is not a greenseer. Euron is a fraud who will be put into his place by Sam and Sarella.

[rotting sea cow]

10 minutes ago, Mithras said:

You don't learn the secrets of Valyrian magic from a fraud, especially during a such a short time. Euron is not a magic user. Euron is not a greenseer. Euron is a fraud who will be put into his place by Sam and Sarella.

I see what you mean and certainly there is something of it too. Euron is toying with things he doesn't fully understand or control and thinks he has power over them. His fall will be hard. Not for nothing he is one of the lies that Dany will have to slay.

At the same, it's clear in the text that Euron is becoming a force by himself, a dangerous one. There are several hints of that. 

Quote

"Have you seen these others in your fires?" he asked, warily.

"Only their shadows," Moqorro said. "One most of all. A tall and twisted thing with one black eye and ten long arms, sailing on a sea of blood."

Tyrion VIII, ADWD

Quote

Then the towers by the sea, crumbling as the dark tide came sweeping over them, rising from the depths.

...

I saw towers by the sea, submerged beneath a black and bloody tide.

Melisandre, ADWD

 

[Lord Varys]

Euron isn't a fraud. He is the most dangerous guy out there at this point. And there is no indication he doesn't understand the magic he is playing with. Cersei might end up being fooled/led around by Qyburn ... but he is the guy doing the magic, he is the one controlling the monstrosity he created, not Cersei.

Euron is the sorcerer king. He drinks the shade of the evening, he works his magic, not the Qartheen warlocks he has captured, tortured, and broken.

That Euron lies about having been to Valyria isn't a sign that he is a fraud but rather a sign that he doesn't want to reveal that he took the magical artifacts he has from the Qartheen.

I don't think Euron will fall, either. Of course, he might be defeated in the end, but he is not going to overreach himself or do things he cannot control. If he were to end up burning the world he would enjoy doing that, it will not backfire on him because he doesn't really care about any of that. If the Others were to take over Westeros he would just jump on the Silence and sail away.

[chrisdaw]

Euron's horn is the cover of Winds, it's not fake, it does what it says it does and he's going to successfully steal Drogon from Dany with it.

Shiera Seastar is Quaithe is guiding him (stars guide sailors, that's the point of her name, Euron is the best of sailors and Shiera the brightest star in the sea) to test/prove/explore her theories of what can be done through magic. Her direction will be how he picked up his horn and

Spoiler

armour.

Don't know if she actually took him to Valyria though.