Covid-19 #39: Shooting the Messenger

[Week]

Lol, bud. Seriously. Pretend like you're an adult.

[A True Kaniggit]

5 minutes ago, lessthanluke said:

"Small risk" 

Correct. It is a small risk. I'm sorry you got sick for those weeks. That sucks. But that was against the odds. Look at the numbers, and you'd know what happened to you was very unlikely.

So quit trying to tell other people they don't have to take the vaccine even without a medically sound reason.

[Week]

Apropos of nothing ... 

(Certainly not limited to the UK ... Because, duh)

[BigFatCoward]

54 minutes ago, lessthanluke said:

99.99 percent of humans do. Its fairly normal to not want to be bankrupt and homeless.

 

 

 

To be fair it's also fairly normal not to want to seriously risk the health of yourself or others, but looking at the odds it appears you and your partner are prepared ro do that. 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

1 hour ago, lessthanluke said:

"Small risk" 

Yeahhhh.

I'm out of this thread, continue to pat each other on the back while wishing illness and death on others like the lovely people you are.

 

P.S I hope Zorral gets Covid (they've wished this on about 100 people so this is totally cool right?! Lols jokes)

Citing Alberta provincial statistics:

5,963,532 doses adminstered.

1,570 adverse events following immunization, ranging from the trivial to the severe.

1,570 reactions worth reporting out of 5,963,532 doses. means there is a 1 in 3,800 chance that the jab will result in an "adverse event".

Compare that to the 1 in 20 to 1 in 40 chance of being hospitalized* or the 1 in 50 to 1 in 100 chance of dying from Covid. Your personal experience notwithstanding, I can objectively say which scenario is "superior" to the other. 

*Have I mentioned that Alberta hospitals are full? That there's a likelihood Canadians will die because they can't get the treatment they have a right to as citizens?

p.s.

Respectfully, please understand that one reason there's so much frustration on this thread is because of what I've stated above. People are dying. Families are being destroyed. Granted, there are valid concerns about the vaccine. But it makes no sense to be more fearful of the vaccine than the virus it was designed to combat, which is orders of magnitude more damaging. 

[Padraig]

This is a very depressing article about the state of vaccination in Bulgaria.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/09/25/covid-vaccine-skepticism-bulgaria/

I know people get very frustrated about those that aren't vaccinated but I do think some of the attacks can get too personal.  The people in Bulgaria are victims.  They have been failed by their government and by the media (and those that finance the government/media).

When you are really struggling financially, you see risks differently from people without those challenges, and make decisions accordingly.  Being berated for making those decisions very rarely changes minds.  It just makes people more determined to hold their course.

But then, the system has been set up so that people end up with these tough decisions to make (i.e. the safety net is rarely there).  Nobody wants to be a victim but that's what the system creates.

[Zorral]

2 hours ago, lessthanluke said:

you can still spread it while vaccinated

That's bs.  Google.  Which has been discussed here with links and sourcing many times. But of course you can't be arsed to read anything that deals with facts that those who are unvaccinated are consuming all the medical resources and killing other people.  One does hope sincerely that you all are getting yourselves tested every day or two at the very least.  And at least wearing masks.  Are you?

You seem to think you're the only here who is danger of financial hardship due to Covid-19 and that's bs too.  Talk about not having sympathy understanding or compassion

 

 

[lessthanluke]

30 minutes ago, Zorral said:

That's bs.  Google.  Which has been discussed here with links and sourcing many times. But of course you can't be arsed to read anything that deals with facts that those who are unvaccinated are consuming all the medical resources and killing other people.  One does hope sincerely that you all are getting yourselves tested every day or two at the very least.  And at least wearing masks.  Are you?

You seem to think you're the only here who is danger of financial hardship due to Covid-19 and that's bs too.  Talk about not having sympathy understanding or compassion

 

 

Its not bullshit its a fact that vaccinated people can still spread it. Don't talk even more nonsense.

We are getting tested regularly, we have very little contact with other people in our day to day lives, we live on a mountain, we train alone in our own private unit, we wear masks, we work from home, I do all the shopping (because I'm vaccinated and therefore obviously immune to spreading it according to you) but yeah we're definitely more of a danger than a vaccinated person going to work in the general public every day. 

Talk about living in a dream world.

With regards to your last sentence that's just you projecting. I have plenty of sympathy for people in shitty situations, you're the one wishing death on people in every other post. 

[Xray the Enforcer]

[mod] ENOUGH [/mod]

[Xray the Enforcer]

[mod] Seriously. I will ban every last one of you until the end of the pandemic. [/mod]

[Xray the Enforcer]

[mod] And I'm going to keep posting so that NOBODY can claim that they didn't see my mod warning. [/mod]

[Xray the Enforcer]

[mod] Get a fucking grip. [/mod]

[Pebble thats Stubby]

My Cousin has cancer,  Her treatment has been delayed again because there are no Beds because of unvaccinated people taking up the beds. Her cancer is inoperable, the only thing that keeps my cousin alive is regular treatments.  Even without covid she had a limited amount of years due to the cancer.

I find it very hard to find any sympathy for the wilfully unvaccinated, as a group they are killing my cousin.

 

I can understand reluctance to get a vaccine especially if you have personally witnessed a bad reaction from one.  however statistically that is very unlikely to happen.  I really hope that your ( @lessthanluke ) girlfriend is able to find a spot in the calendar that allows her to take the vaccine without risking too much of her competitions.  I'd really want her to take it asap but I can at the very least empathise with why she has delayed.  I don't agree with the decision and find it hard to be polite let alone nice.  Those not vaccinated are filling up the beds and are killing my cousin as a result.

 

Yes vaccinated can still spread covid, but they don't spread it as much nor do they take up the beds in ICU anywhere near as much as the non-vaccinated.  Its not the Vaccinated that are stopping my cousin getting treatment to stay alive.

 

 

Edit  - Sorry X-ray  was allready writing this when you posted.  Please deleate if it can't stay.

[A True Kaniggit]

Damn you military training!

I follow lawful orders from higher authority. 
 

[Xray the Enforcer]

2 minutes ago, Pebble thats Stubby said:

Edit  - Sorry X-ray  was allready writing this when you posted.  Please deleate if it can't stay.

I'm very sorry about your cousin, Pebs. I think your post is a very good way to end this back and forth. 

[mod] I'm letting Pebble's comment stay, but I'm serious when I say that the aggressive (and aggressively personal) posting about vaccinations must stop. Thank you. [/mod]

[Clueless Northman]

54 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

On another note, Peebs is bugging me to get a third shot, and my dad, who is part of the Pfizer trials, has gotten a third shot and has also told me to get a third shot at 6 months post my second Moderna shot and implied to lie if necessary.

Moderna seems to offer longer resistance/immunity. From what I've seen, I don't think anyone who got 2 shots of Moderna needs a 3rd one after 6 months. After 8 to 10 months though, I wouldn't be surprised if the vulnerable people need it - and 1 year or beyond for the others. Of course, all this is a work in progress and we haven't as good data for as long as with Pfizer.

[DireWolfSpirit]

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

Addendum to my last post on outcomes (addressed to no one in particular):

Canadian national statistics:

As of 17-September-2021, 54,773,928 doses administered.

16,090 adverse events following immunization, 11,802 categorized as "non-serious" 4,288 categorized as "serious", 119 deaths*.

Probability of an adverse event: 0.029%, or 1 in 3450. Roughly in line with Alberta's number.

Probability of a "serious" adverse event**: 0.008%, or 1 in 12,500. This is roughly equivalent to the odds of an amateur golfer making a hole-in-one or an individual being killed in a mass shooting in the United States. 

Probability of Death: 0.00022% or 1 in 460,000.

The majority of adverse outcomes are linked to the first dose. 

*"Deaths"

74 of these deaths are unlikely linked to a COVID-19 vaccine, 69 deaths could not be assessed due to insufficient information, 42 deaths are still under investigation.

**"Serious Adverse Event" is defined as an event that results in any of the following:

death, is life-threatening (an event/reaction in which the patient was at real, rather than hypothetical, risk of death at the time of the event/reaction), requires in-patient hospitalization or prolongation of existing hospitalization, results in persistent or significant disability/incapacity, results in a congenital anomaly/birth defect.

-

Canadian Covid deaths: 27,620

 

[The Anti-Targ]

8 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

If 82M more doses of vaccine have been distributed than used in the US to date, I’d say a helluva a lot more than 15M have been wasted so far.

Possibly. What is meant by distributed though? If that means vaccine shipped from bulk supply to vaccine centres, then that isn't all wastage, it includes unused vaccine waiting to be used. Also how is wastage in the USA shaping up against other countries?

Quote

In the US, 470,630,875 doses have been distributed so far, with 82% or 388,567,109 of the doses used.

https://usafacts.org/visualizations/covid-vaccine-tracker-states/

There's your 82 million gap, and clearly that includes vaccine still good to use in the supply chain. The wastage nukmber is in there, but it appears there is poor record-keeping on doses wasted.

https://qz.com/2013918/some-countries-are-wasting-more-covid-19-vaccines-than-others/ Article from May

Quote

According to the World Health Organization (WHO)(pdf), 50% of [all] vaccines are wasted around the world. That number is highly variable across countries, healthcare settings, and types of vaccines. But since there is typically no shortage of vaccines, it’s often considered the cost of doing business.

In April, the French minister of health Olivier Veran (link in French) said that 25% of AstraZeneca, 20% of Moderna, and 7% of Pfizer vaccines currently go to waste in France. At that point, France had received about 5 million doses of AstraZeneca’s Covid-19 vaccine (French), which would mean that roughly 1.25 million doses were wasted.

Major wastage events often make the news, such as when Malawi burned about 20,000 doses of expired AstraZeneca vaccines even though the WHO said they could still be used. A Hong Kong official recently warned the government might have to throw away millions of unused Pfizer jabs because not enough people are taking them.

In the US, the wastage rate is low. According to the CDC, as of May 24, Covid-19 vaccine wastage nationally is approximately 0.44% of the more than 353 million doses that have been delivered to states—meaning roughly 1.55 million doses. That’s likely to be an underestimate, says Ashish Jha, dean of the Brown University School of Public Health. Jha tells Quartz that he expects the true wastage rate to be closer to 1%, while Tinglong Dai, a professor of operations management and business analytics at the Johns Hopkins Carey Business School, believes it could be as high as 5%.

What’s clear is that wastage is likely to go up over time, they say, as supply begins to outstrip demand in rich countries, while poor ones still struggle for access. Healthcare providers will be less careful with vials and people will stop showing up for extra doses at the end of the day. In the US, says Jha, “I absolutely expect wastage numbers to go up.”

5% wastage of the total distributed in the USA to date is 23M. Given the generally poor approach to avoiding vaccine waste for most vaccines 5% is not terrible, even 10% wastage isn't outrageous in the context of a country where there is sufficient vaccine, except for the fact we are dealing globally with a situation of demand exceeding supply in most countries so there need to be efforts to minimise waste and redistribute from where demand is low to where demand is high. However criticism of vaccine waste needs to be properly contextualised, simply saying >Xmillion doses have been wasted does not give us an indication of it being reasonable or unreasonable, or unavoidable vs avoidable. It's not possible to get to zero, so what's a reasonable number?

[RhaenysBee]

On 9/23/2021 at 6:03 PM, Zorral said:

It could well be. Colds seem to be hitting people here and in Europe very hard this fall, They Say, due to so many of us masking, washing and isolating/distancing for months.  Now that people aren't, they are getting colds and flu.

I don't know, of course, but I am hearing it anecdotally from many that we know.

 What I do know is how great it has been not having had either a cold or flu since October 2019!

Well whatever it was she feels fine and went to work today. I… just don’t get these things. I mean I do, because she felt ill for only one day and then gradually got better and better  , so it likely was only a mild chill. I would certainly have called in sick another day. But she’s an adult and it’s her decision and there’s nothing I can do. 

We seem to be steadily keeping the 500ish cases per day. Still not sure if this is due to very little testing or delta is really that slow. Sewage samples support that the increase of covid particles is slow. Also, covid doesn’t really make top news or headlines anymore, the one and only topic we are supposed to care about now is elections. Ours, Germany’s, anybody’s, just make it an election.