Covid-19 #39: Shooting the Messenger

[Impmk2]

1 hour ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

They uncle of a friend nearly died because of TB after getting covid-19. He had some kind of dormant version which emerged in hospital after his immune system was busy with covid. He might have avoided the ICU without it but his unknown risk factor caused a month long stay.

That's just TB. Estimates are approx 25% of the global population have a latent TB infection (obviously a large portion of that is in lower income countries). In the vast majority of cases it never becomes active over the course of their life unless they become pretty seriously immunocompromised. It's just like a decently large portion of the population carry fun bugs like MRSA and Neisseria meningitidis on them. They're generally classed as an opportunistic pathogen.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

3 hours ago, Impmk2 said:

That's just TB. Estimates are approx 25% of the global population have a latent TB infection (obviously a large portion of that is in lower income countries). In the vast majority of cases it never becomes active over the course of their life unless they become pretty seriously immunocompromised. It's just like a decently large portion of the population carry fun bugs like MRSA and Neisseria meningitidis on them. They're generally classed as an opportunistic pathogen.

Exactly.  My great-grandmother was a nurse over a century ago and contracted TB.  The Spanish flu officially killed her, but it was really the combination of TB and the novel influenza.  TB is no joke.  We had TB tests every checkup growing up.  They don’t do it anymore, but I remember getting the skin test every time I went to the pediatrician.  Though we haven’t conquered it by any means, the amount of progress made against the scourge is really amazing (though the drug resistant varieties are of concern).  

[Luzifer's right hand]

55 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

Exactly.  My great-grandmother was a nurse over a century ago and contracted TB.  The Spanish flu officially killed her, but it was really the combination of TB and the novel influenza.  TB is no joke.  We had TB tests every checkup growing up.  They don’t do it anymore, but I remember getting the skin test every time I went to the pediatrician.  Though we haven’t conquered it by any means, the amount of progress made against the scourge is really amazing (though the drug resistant varieties are of concern).  

A TB vaccine was actually the first one I ever got as an infant. It is not recommended anymore though because of the low risk to get it nowadays. It was more common back in the day.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

United is up to 99.7% of their workforce being vaccinated. Mandates work! 

[Zorral]

We emailed a New Orleans friend because we hadn’t heard from him since early after Ida, when he was leaving for his family's home in Kentucky. We hadn't heard from him because he’s been down with covid.  He thinks he got it from his 80+ mom. ??? she not vaccinated then??? He got sick ‘then the vaccine kicked in.” Down, he says for 10 days.  Presumably he means by “the vaccine kicked in” that he didn’t get sicker and didn’t need hospitalization and got better. He's said nothing about his mother.   The email was very short.

Birth state remains purple for new covid infections.  They don’t mention this, you know, in the InForum, Their paper of record, though though They do cover the high rates of South Dakota and Minnesota. It wouldn’t be polite to mention one's own, I guess? 

The latest infection zip code dashboard zip for Manhattan has ours at 0.72% per 100,000.  No hospitalizations, no deaths. 78% or thereabouts vaccinated. Generally speaking Manhattan is still looking quite good (not so for Staten Island, sections of Brooklyn, Queens, and Long Island).  But holidays coming up!

[Luzifer's right hand]

32 minutes ago, Zorral said:

We emailed a New Orleans friend because we hadn’t heard from him since early after Ida, when he was leaving for his family's home in Kentucky. We hadn't heard from him because he’s been down with covid.  He thinks he got it from his 80+ mom. ??? she not vaccinated then??? He got sick ‘then the vaccine kicked in.” Down, he says for 10 days.  Presumably he means by “the vaccine kicked in” that he didn’t get sicker and didn’t need hospitalization and got better. He's said nothing about his mother.   The email was very short.

Birth state remains purple for new covid infections.  They don’t mention this, you know, in the InForum, Their paper of record, though though They do cover the high rates of South Dakota and Minnesota. It wouldn’t be polite to mention one's own, I guess? 

The latest infection zip code dashboard zip for Manhattan has ours at 0.72% per 100,000.  No hospitalizations, no deaths. 78% or thereabouts vaccinated. Generally speaking Manhattan is still looking quite good (not so for Staten Island, sections of Brooklyn, Queens, and Long Island).  But holidays coming up!

I know someone who was most likely infected by his 85 year old asymptomatic father who was double vaccinated when he tested positive. Only person he interacted with maskless. 

[Zorral]

10 minutes ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

I know someone who was most likely infected by his 85 year old asymptomatic father who was double vaccinated when he tested positive. Only person he interacted with maskless. 

Thank you for mentioning that!

One wonders about friend's mom though, as she -- and his family -- live in that purple part of Kentucky, which is extremely anti-vaccination and extremely anti-mask, etc.

However it happened, we're very happy that he was vaccinated, that it wasn't worse, and that we still have him and his friendship.

[Which Tyler]

Mentioned the trial in a previous Covid thread, vaccine for malaria has now been approved for use by WHO!

 

This is massive.

[Spockydog]

wrong thread

[Padraig]

2 hours ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

I know someone who was most likely infected by his 85 year old asymptomatic father who was double vaccinated when he tested positive. Only person he interacted with maskless. 

An 85 year old asymptomatic person?  Wow.  I'm assuming that was pretty much impossible before vaccination?  Although, i've never seen a graph showing how likely you are to be asymptomatic.

Other news, the EMA signed off on Pfizer boosters.  A light touch though, saying there is no reason not to.  But leaving the decisions on who should be boosted to individual countries.

https://www.politico.eu/article/complex-eu-leads-europe-to-diverge-from-us-on-coronavirus-vaccine-booster/

Lithuania takes a leaf from the US.  €100 if you get vaccinated and you are over 75.  Given Lithuania has done poorly so far when it comes to vaccination and it has the highest number of cases in the EU currently, I can see its logic.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/lithuanian-government-proposes-paying-over-75s-take-covid-jabs-2021-10-06/

The Nordic countries are moving away from Moderna for younger people.  I think Ontario did something like this recently.  Moderna may be better than Pfizer but it comes with a cost (although I'm sure they are only doing this because they have a very available alternative in Pfizer).   Moderna's proposed booster is half the normal size (but still bigger than Pfizers).

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/sweden-pauses-use-moderna-covid-vaccine-cites-rare-side-effects-2021-10-06/

[Filippa Eilhart]

my grandma was in a home last year with a large portion of residents having unsymptomatic covid. I don’t think it was all that uncommon. 

 

She did die some time later but it’s not thought to be due to covid.

[Zorral]

I wish the US would approve Moderna's boosters here.

[IheartIheartTesla]

19 hours ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

I have to say, my second most jarring lifetime experience was getting arrested….and then getting at TB test, in case I had to join GenPop and couldn’t bail myself out (which, as I had an amount that I could have committed attempted murder and gotten bail - I had that cash). I mean, A TB TEST, usually one only hears about TB in Russian gulags.

About 40% of Indians have latent TB (that's maybe 3-400 million people?) and many test positive on a skin test. The US does require a clear chest X-ray to immigrate though. Its been so long that I don't remember what my test result was.

I remember a news story from the 90s about US doctors being so unused to look at TB cases that they would consult with Indian doctors to get their opinions. This was of course during the infancy of the internet and now things are much easier to access.

[Which Tyler]

4 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

Mentioned the trial in a previous Covid thread, vaccine for malaria has now been approved for use by WHO!

 

This is massive.

Posted that during a live briefing by WHO - I've got linkies now:

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/who-experts-back-using-malaria-vaccine-african-children-2021-10-06/

 

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/oct/06/who-endorses-use-of-worlds-first-malaria-vaccine-in-africa

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/06/health/malaria-vaccine-who.html

 

This is the vaccine research that Bill Gates has been pouring money into - I wonder if there's a conspiracy to ge microchips / 5G / Human Magnetism into African children? Or is it just idiots with smartphones who need to be chipped?

[Padraig]

4 hours ago, Filippa Eilhart said:

my grandma was in a home last year with a large portion of residents having unsymptomatic covid. I don’t think it was all that uncommon. 

Huh.  I didn't know.   Thanks.  Weird that I didn't see that mentioned before.

1 hour ago, Which Tyler said:

This is the vaccine research that Bill Gates has been pouring money into

Glad he did that over flying to space!

4 hours ago, Zorral said:

I wish the US would approve Moderna's boosters here.

The FDA is meeting on it next week IIRC.  So not too long!

[Whitestripe]

To boost or not to boost?  I've got the Pfizer chip and because of my job (I work in person at a college) I am eligible. Note the CDC says "may" but not "should" get a booster. My campus is 99% vaccinated  (there are a few religious and medical exceptions). I DO host public events. Attendees are supposed to be vaccinated, but the college is not requiring proof, just asking that people be honest about vaccination status. Masks are required at all events and indoors on campus at all times.  So, yay or nay on the booster?  

[Elder Sister]

2 hours ago, Whitestripe said:

To boost or not to boost?  I've got the Pfizer chip and because of my job (I work in person at a college) I am eligible. Note the CDC says "may" but not "should" get a booster. My campus is 99% vaccinated  (there are a few religious and medical exceptions). I DO host public events. Attendees are supposed to be vaccinated, but the college is not requiring proof, just asking that people be honest about vaccination status. Masks are required at all events and indoors on campus at all times.  So, yay or nay on the booster?  

My first thought to your post is, "Why not get a booster?"  

I plan on getting it either this week or next week.  I have immunity issues and asthma, and it seems like the sensible thing to do, especially living in a place where the vaccine rate is still under 45%.

 

[Padraig]

 

3 hours ago, Whitestripe said:

To boost or not to boost?  I've got the Pfizer chip and because of my job (I work in person at a college) I am eligible. Note the CDC says "may" but not "should" get a booster. My campus is 99% vaccinated  (there are a few religious and medical exceptions). I DO host public events. Attendees are supposed to be vaccinated, but the college is not requiring proof, just asking that people be honest about vaccination status. Masks are required at all events and indoors on campus at all times.  So, yay or nay on the booster?  

As it happens, there is an article in the New England Journal of Medicine on booster effectiveness today based on results from Israel.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2114255

Quote

At least 12 days after the booster dose, the rate of confirmed infection was lower in the booster group than in the nonbooster group by a factor of 11.3 (95% confidence interval [CI], 10.4 to 12.3); the rate of severe illness was lower by a factor of 19.5 (95% CI, 12.9 to 29.5).

In other words, the chance of a severe illness is almost 20 times less if you get boosted.  I'm a little surprised at how positive that data is, given the troubles Israel had in controlling the Delta wave.  Even today, its fatality rate is rather high (over 2 months after it started boosting).  But that is presumably due to its relatively low total vaccination rate (64%) than an issue with boosters.

I'm curious about whether that level of improvement is consistent across age groups but either way, very good results.

There are even studies now showing that you can get the flu vaccine and a COVID booster at the same time.

https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/trial-shows-sanofi-s-fluzone-and-moderna-s-covid-19-shot-perform-same-when-given-same-doctor

So boosters seem to work.  The biggest reason to defer getting one is that most people haven't had their first dose (we are at 46% for 1st doses worldwide apparently).  OTOH, declining a booster may just lead to a wasted vaccine.  It certainly doesn't mean that a dose goes elsewhere (although, it could.  I'm not sure has anyone looked at that.  Doses definitely get wasted though).

The other factors are then about your personal risk factors and the risk factors of those around you.

[Jaxom 1974]

Aarrrggghhhhh...get the call at 230ish this afternoon to go get my daughter as she's been identified as a close contact with someone who's tested positive...of course, we're supposed to be with family all weekend on a getaway and I've been looking forward to it for a couple months, based on what I've gone through at work (see the career thread for references if interested...). So we take her right away for a PCR test in the hopes of seeing if we can get a 24 hour turnaround in getting results...

I take her home and head back to work, it's now closer to 4pm. As I'm driving back, I get the email stating that my son is also needing to quarantine because of a close contact...FML.

 

[Fragile Bird]

Geez, I hope they’re both negative.