Covid-19 #39: Shooting the Messenger

[Fragile Bird]

Sad, sad news regarding people getting shot or assaulted for asking people to wear masks or prove they’re vaccinated.

Humans suck at humanity. Not news, right?

[Fragile Bird]

I see J&J has been administering second shots two months after first shots and it brings their efficacy up to 94%, just like Pfizer and Moderna.

I guess it should have been a two-shot vaccine from the start.

[DireWolfSpirit]

Which Tyler- There's always the army - which wouldn't present any problems at all, I'm sure 

Hmmmm....can we use the army to shoot the non maskers?

Standing our ground rules should apply, we can't have double standards.

[Padraig]

28 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I see J&J has been administering second shots two months after first shots and it brings their efficacy up to 94%, just like Pfizer and Moderna.

I guess it should have been a two-shot vaccine from the start.

Weirdly, it announced different results for the US v the world.

Quote

That two-dose approach was 75% effective globally at preventing moderate to severe COVID-19, and 95% effective in the U.S. alone, the company reported — a difference likely due to which variants were circulating in different countries during the monthslong study.

J&J has a large presence in South Africa, which used to be struggling with Beta.  I'm assuming these results is a hangover of that.  But not sure.

https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/jj-booster-dose-covid-shot-prompts-strong-response-80142371

If it is just a Beta problem, then very good results, given Beta has been overwhelmed by Delta.

Interestingly J&J also says that if the second shot is given 6 months later, the response is even better.  Which is in line with AZ (IIRC).  I wonder did anyone ever test spreading the Pfizer/Moderna doses by 6 months.  They say a 3rd shot 6 months later has a very strong response but I wonder is that due to the gap and not the fact that it is a 3rd shot.

[DireWolfSpirit]

^^^^That's an excellent question on the delay vs 3rd and which is improving the stats.

[Fragile Bird]

Well, many of us in Canada got our 2nd shots up to 16 weeks later, so 4 months.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

 

2 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

Well, many of us in Canada got our 2nd shots up to 16 weeks later, so 4 months.

Yes, apparently stretching the timing of the second shot is better long term. I had mixed doses (AZ and Moderna) with almost 9 weeks in between.

-

Tyler Shandro just got sacked as Alberta Health Minister. 

 

[Zorral]

Well, apologies are due: I drew attention to a story of 3 Texas women assaulting a young restaurant hostess due to their vax cards being rejected.

NOW the story has changed.  And I, at least, cannot tell who is lying and who is not or even if everybody is lying and everybody's telling the truth.  

https://gothamist.com/food/texas-women-accused-assaulting-hostess-over-vaccine-mandate-say-they-were-smeared-carmines

 

[The Anti-Targ]

4 hours ago, Padraig said:

Weirdly, it announced different results for the US v the world.

J&J has a large presence in South Africa, which used to be struggling with Beta.  I'm assuming these results is a hangover of that.  But not sure.

https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/jj-booster-dose-covid-shot-prompts-strong-response-80142371

If it is just a Beta problem, then very good results, given Beta has been overwhelmed by Delta.

Interestingly J&J also says that if the second shot is given 6 months later, the response is even better.  Which is in line with AZ (IIRC).  I wonder did anyone ever test spreading the Pfizer/Moderna doses by 6 months.  They say a 3rd shot 6 months later has a very strong response but I wonder is that due to the gap and not the fact that it is a 3rd shot.

Probably mostly the third shot is my guess. But there are vaccines where the standard course is several months gap between first shot and second. Even years in the case of MMR. But there is good cause to recommend just a few weeks wait between first and second even if it is 100% the time gap that causes the significant immunity boost. While the pandemic rages on a ~50% effectiveness form the first dose is really not adequate to manage the disease, and while 75% is also not great it's better to get the the population up to 75% ASAP than to have people wandering around for 6 months at 50%. Though there is an argument that wider distribution of vaccine globally to get large numbers to the 50% provided by the first dose is better than concentrating the vaccine into fewer countries and getting those people to 75%.

In other news, we now have confirmed infection in 3 different gangs. The police and health dept are not willing "to talk about the extent of Covid-19 in Auckland’s criminal underworld." I guess the upside is that at least it's been detected in these groups and a plan can be potentially developed to address the unique challenges of managing the disease circulating in that kind of setting.

[Fragile Bird]

22 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Well, apologies are due: I drew attention to a story of 3 Texas women assaulting a young restaurant hostess due to their vax cards being rejected.

NOW the story has changed.  And I, at least, cannot tell who is lying and who is not or even if everybody is lying and everybody's telling the truth.  

https://gothamist.com/food/texas-women-accused-assaulting-hostess-over-vaccine-mandate-say-they-were-smeared-carmines

 

Try reading the comments on the NYT article. There are people who say they eat at Carmine’s and the restaurant has employees who are people of color, who say there is no way the hostess would use the “N” word, let alone against customers. The original women were vaccinated, showed proof and were seated. The men eventually showed proof, I gather at first they didn’t want to. Sounds like the younger ladies got very angry.  My guess someone at the restaurant assumed there was an issue with vaccinations because they’ve had issues with customers already, but they should have checked their facts first, no doubt.
 

You know what? If you are treated rudely, even offensively, by staff, you walk out, you don’t attack the restaurant employee. File a complaint with the appropriate authorities. 
 

I bet sooner or later someone will show up with a cell phone video.

[Padraig]

4 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

Well, many of us in Canada got our 2nd shots up to 16 weeks later, so 4 months.

I didn't know that (or forgotten).  I thought it was 12.  That might lead to some research then.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

29 deaths in Alberta in the last 24 hours. Some were double vaccinated with pre-existing conditions. Most were unvaccinated. 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

43 minutes ago, Padraig said:

I didn't know that (or forgotten).  I thought it was 12.  That might lead to some research then.

With us it also had to do with availability. When I got my AZ dose they had already announced shipments had stopped and we didn't know when we would be getting more. The Americans were sucking up every available dose, I think. The research into mixing vaccines was only just coming out then. 

[Clueless Northman]

7 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Which Tyler- There's always the army - which wouldn't present any problems at all, I'm sure 

Hmmmm....can we use the army to shoot the non maskers?

Standing our ground rules should apply, we can't have double standards.

For once, the military would be useful and would be used for its primary purpose: to protect the bulk of the people and society.

[Zorral]

2 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

Try reading the comments on the NYT article. There are people who say they eat at Carmine’s and the restaurant has employees who are people of color, who say there is no way the hostess would use the “N” word, let alone against customers. The original women were vaccinated, showed proof and were seated. The men eventually showed proof, I gather at first they didn’t want to. Sounds like the younger ladies got very angry.  My guess someone at the restaurant assumed there was an issue with vaccinations because they’ve had issues with customers already, but they should have checked their facts first, no doubt.
 

You know what? If you are treated rudely, even offensively, by staff, you walk out, you don’t attack the restaurant employee. File a complaint with the appropriate authorities. 
 

I bet sooner or later someone will show up with a cell phone video.

It's so horrible trying to work in the hospitality - travel business now.  It was always rough. but there were compensations.  Now, between always being under-staffed, having to police the antivaxxers and maskers, and dealing with ever larger jerkwaddie customer base -- how they keep going I don't know.  I see it all the time at our local, which is next door to our building.  The other night Partner, Pod Partner and I were having dinner together (outside) and one of the long, long, long time waitstaff had our table.  That it was taking such a long time to get services, etc., bothered us not at all, knowing how understaffed they are right now (one of the mainstays is in the hospital for a non-covid related health issue) as being social together was the real reason we were there anyway, more than eating.  The waitperson told us how much he appreciated having us coming back regularly as customers again.  "You guys are always just great and never any trouble and always understanding."  But then -- they are with us too -- we've been through hell together more than once, with 9/11 and Sandy, and now this -- where they have to put their lives on the line all the time.  I'm so grateful they are still here, with us, instead of some obnoxious outsider who cares nothing and knows less about the neighborhood and those of who LIVE here, as opposed to those coming in for quick and maximum bux.

How can people be so mean to people who work in the restaurants?  What do the mean people get out of it?

That's the great thing about our local's owners: they are There for their staff and do their best for them too. Proof is that all their pre-pandemic permanent staff are still with them.

 

[The Anti-Targ]

The only thing that offends me is the awful mashup of Aussie and Kiwi accents. Do better Spitting Image.

[Fragile Bird]

The teeth…

[Derfel Cadarn]

Wife (nurse) got appt for 3rd jag. I’ll probably hear in the coming weeks. (We’re in the UK).

[Ormond]

22 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

Sad, sad news regarding people getting shot or assaulted for asking people to wear masks or prove they’re vaccinated.

Humans suck at humanity. Not news, right?

You could reframe this the other way, you know. If humans in general were really this bad, incidents like this wouldn't be news because they would be happening everywhere every day.

99% of even anti-mask and anti-vaccination crazies will never assault anyone over this. Maybe we shouldn't be completely negative about humans in general just because it's not 100%?

[BigFatCoward]

52 minutes ago, Ormond said:

You could reframe this the other way, you know. If humans in general were really this bad, incidents like this wouldn't be news because they would be happening everywhere every day.

99% of even anti-mask and anti-vaccination crazies will never assault anyone over this. Maybe we shouldn't be completely negative about humans in general just because it's not 100%?

This is very easy to forget. I used to cover an area of 250,000 people. But it was the same tiny minority causing all the problems that I had to deal with. 

Not everyone is 'good' but most aren't 'bad'.