The Many Saints of Newark (Sopranos spoilers)

[Nictarion]

One other thing; didn’t Janice say it was Uncle Junior and his gf that were in the car with Johnny and Livia when he shot her hair? I think it’s in Soprano Home Movies where she tells the story while they’re all drinking and playing board games. 

[Mark Antony]

5 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

One other thing; didn’t Janice say it was Uncle Junior and his gf that were in the car with Johnny and Livia when he shot her hair? I think it’s in Soprano Home Movies where she tells the story while they’re all drinking and playing board games. 

You’re right. You could also explain it away by Janice misremembering or something but eh just seems like an inconsistency 

[RumHam]

2 hours ago, Nictarion said:

One other thing; didn’t Janice say it was Uncle Junior and his gf that were in the car with Johnny and Livia when he shot her hair? I think it’s in Soprano Home Movies where she tells the story while they’re all drinking and playing board games. 

Are we sure it wasn't just that they heard the story from Junior? My memory is shit. 

I still think that scene was really weird. Maybe just because I always imagined it with the other guy who played Johhny, who was more....warm? than Bernthal's portrayal. The way it's depicted in the movie makes it seem way worse than the story. Especially cause her hair isn't that tall so you could easily read the scene as him trying to blow her head off and missing because the car bounced on a pot hole.

And then the "don't look at me like that" like it's the kinda thing that happened all the time between them? 

[RumHam]

I've read so many terrible takes on this movie from people who wanted it to be something else. It sure has it's problems but they are minor, in my opinion. (The narration, Silvio, the pinky swear ending, the stupid baby Christopher scene)

I'm curious what you guys think about the "Uncle Sal isn't real" theory. I never would have gotten there on my own. I thought the baseball thing was bullshit, and Sal just left while Dickie was caught up in his own story. I don't think you can go to a prison, ask to visit someone who doesn't exist and then just sit in the visiting room. Plus I don't think a figment of one's imagination would want Jazz albums and then complain about the other albums he brought. 

[Nictarion]

I assumed he was real. Chase seems to have a thing with twins (Patsy/Spoons & Tony B’s sons). 

And yeah, I’m pretty surprised with just how negative the reactions have been. It certainly has issues, but I wasn’t really expecting College, Pine Barrens, Whitecaps, Long Term Parking, etc type quality either. Was it really that much worse than some of the “weaker” episodes like Chasing It or A Hit Is a Hit? 

I’m seeing a lot of “don’t even waste your time” type comments, and I completely disagree with that. It’s certainly worth watching, imo. There was enough good stuff in there.

I think a lot of people thought it was going to be entirely about young Tony. 

The ending really resonated with me though, I have to say. The fact that Tony was desperately trying to help Livia (and that Dickie had the medication on him when he was killed) was just really heartbreaking. 

[RumHam]

Yeah I like the ending up until the "that's the guy I went to hell for" and the music kicks in.

Another thing I keep forgetting to mention, Dickie didn't do any heroin in the movie, did he? Doesn't Chris at one point say something like "lets face it, my father, your hero the great dickie moltasanti wasn't much more than a junkie?" 

[Nictarion]

19 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Another thing I keep forgetting to mention, Dickie didn't do any heroin in the movie, did he? Doesn't Chris at one point say something like "lets face it, my father, your hero the great dickie moltasanti wasn't much more than a junkie?" 

I was wondering if that came from Livia spreading rumors that Dickie was doing drugs? She makes a nasty comment during the funeral about the pills. 

[Relic]

I don't understand the negative comments about this movie. I thought it was very solid. Nothing ground breaking, sure, but a very well done 2 hour story set in the Sopranos universe. Would definitely welcome more, and would like to see Gandolfini play that role a couple more times. 

[Relic]

On 10/2/2021 at 8:21 PM, Mark Antony said:

bur Silvio and Pussy are still too much older than Tony imo. Timeline got fucked up

i dunno, they are at least 6 or 7 years older than Tony in season 1. 

[Zorral]

Nothing seemed to hang together, even half-way through, so bored, and, as a person does when this happens, quit.

[Nictarion]

I’m listening to the Talking Sopranos podcast for Many Saints, and Michael Gandolfini just mentioned he’s in Ari Aster’s next movie. He’s already worked with two of my favorites from tv (David Simon & David Chase), and now also one of my current favorite film directors. 

[Mark Antony]

On 10/4/2021 at 4:24 AM, Relic said:

i dunno, they are at least 6 or 7 years older than Tony in season 1. 

Yeah Vincent Pastore is actually 15 years older than Gandolfoni. Pussy worked for Junior as well in the show during a flashback so him being older is actually fine. It’s mainly just Silvio that felt like he was only a couple years older not in his 20s when Tony was 8-10 years old. Anyway typing it out makes me feel like it is super nit picky 

[RumHam]

I'm gonna re-watch this today, I keep thinking about it. Two things I've read but not confirmed: The baseball team is real and at the funeral, and Jilly Ruffalo is credited at being in the movie, possibly as the shooter. 

[Nictarion]

36 minutes ago, RumHam said:

I'm gonna re-watch this today, I keep thinking about it. Two things I've read but not confirmed: The baseball team is real and at the funeral, and Jilly Ruffalo is credited at being in the movie, possibly as the shooter. 

Apparently David Chase also briefly appeared in one of the funeral scenes as Ercole DiMeo (the boss before Jackie) which I completely missed. 

[DMC]

Finally just watched this after rewatching the series first.  Have to say I'm deeply disappointed.  It just seemed disjointed trying to inorganically fit in fan service-y shit - like the Johnny/Livia car scene.  And yeah, in Soprano Home Movies Janice says she heard the story from Junior's goomar and the two of them were purportedly in the car.  I don't really care about that inconsistency - plenty of explanations for that.  What I don't like is how much older Sil is than Tony, as mentioned.  Pussy, yes, was always portrayed as significantly older than Tony. 

But I always got the impression that Sil and Tony grew up together, instead of at least ten years between them based on the first half of the movie.  I mean, I'm aware Steve Van Zandt actually is about ten years older than Gandolfini, but my headcanon always had the two as close in age - especially after, as mentioned, the 3rd season scene where Ralphie tells Jackie Jr. about the card game and how he, Tony, Sil, and Jackie Sr. had their own little crew growing up.  That doesn't really make sense based on the age difference portrayed. 

And to finish my whining about Sil, I liked how he was the one at the end who tried to reconcile Dickie with Tony, but why the fuck does Sil have such an interest in Tony at that point?  I think the only time they interact in the movie is when Sil tells him to go away a few minutes earlier.

Anyway, it's too bad Chase didn't include a Targaryen family in the original series.  That way he could've gone full Oedipus complex instead of Dickie just fucking his stepmother after killing his father.  It was a little much, and I can't say I ever got drawn into caring too much about Dickie. 

Farmiga was great as Liv, but the entire time I was wondering why she wasn't in it more.  Even more so with Johnnie.  I was looking forward to him actually getting some characterization as I always found the portrayal as very hackneyed in the series' flashback scenes - and Bernthal seemed like great casting - but he's barely in the damn movie.

To wrap up my whining, what I really hated was the reason Dickie Moltisanti got dead.  I mean, it was pretty obvious Junior was going to do it after the scene where he fell and Dickie laughed, but I was waiting for the other shoe to drop.  It's a rehash of the first season where Junior is personally offended by the cunnilingus but also is then given an actual reason, even justification, to hit Tony.  Here...no actual reason.  Apparently the 70s version of the DiMeo family just let their own people kill each other over laughing.

Other than Farmiga, Ray Liotta was a highlight, especially as Landfill 2.  I thought the girl who played teenage Janice also strikingly seemed like a young Janice, which was cool.

[RumHam]

16 hours ago, DMC said:

And to finish my whining about Sil, I liked how he was the one at the end who tried to reconcile Dickie with Tony, but why the fuck does Sil have such an interest in Tony at that point?  I think the only time they interact in the movie is when Sil tells him to go away a few minutes earlier.

I didn't think about that, but yeah it's pretty weird. It's not like the ice cream truck caper was some brilliant plan. Johnny Boy doesn't seem like the type to be constantly talking about how smart his son is. 

Interview with the guy who played Dickie:

https://www.vulture.com/2021/10/many-saints-alessandro-nivola-on-dickie-moltisanti.html

Quote

Did David Chase give you any marching orders as far as who Dickie was or how to play him?

No, nothing like that. The fact that Dickie was never seen on The Sopranos gave me total freedom to invent the character. The only thing David really said to me about Dickie was “Don’t believe anything that anyone said about him in the series because they’re all liars,” which gave me even more liberty to feel that I didn’t have to fashion myself into something that already existed or had already been defined.

Quote

 

That’s interesting. Do you think Uncle Sally, the character Dickie visits in prison, is real?

Either way, he’s the voice of Dickie’s conscience — Dickie grappling with himself. And at the end of the film, Dickie breaks down and makes the decision to see Tony and tell him to run away. But he gets killed before he gets the chance to get that message across to Tony. I think he wanted to say it to him throughout his life and could never figure out how to say it.

 

I figured Dickie was breaking down and just letting Tony back into his life. So Junior really doomed him to a life of crime and misery. 

I'm curious to see the deleted scenes of this movie. I think it could have used a bit more motivation from Junior. Like they were arguing over territory and the boss sided with Dickie, or Junior was suspicious about Dickie's somewhat ridiculous cover story for his dad's death and they got into a brief confrontation. 

[DMC]

4 hours ago, RumHam said:

I figured Dickie was breaking down and just letting Tony back into his life. So Junior really doomed him to a life of crime and misery. 

Yeah that was my impression as well, I don't know how the viewer is supposed to gather that Dickie was resolved to tell Tony to run away.  Definitely be interested to see if deleted scenes helped explain that and gave Junior a more believable reason.

[Ser Drewy]

Really interesting article on the film

I think I agree with Michael Koresky's points a fair bit. 

@DMC You've raised a lot of the things that bugged me. I felt a lot of the narratives lacked development - Johnny Boy and Junior in particular, and it really struck me as odd how little context or even cause the hit on Dickie was given. It's intended to be a misfire - the Sopranos was pretty famous for that - but here it feels undercooked and poorly developed. Why did Junior get a hit on Dickie? The series was full of people - Junior, John Sack, Paulie - who wanted violence over petty stuff and got told 'no'. Here... who/why was it allowed?

But there's also Harold, the Newark Riots, Dickie's family... all of it felt like the bones of interesting material that wasn't given enough meat.

[DMC]

13 minutes ago, Ser Drewy said:

But there's also Harold, the Newark Riots, Dickie's family... all of it felt like the bones of interesting material that wasn't given enough meat.

Agreed.  I think a lot of the issues derive from the classic problem of trying to pack way too much into two hours.

[Relic]

32 minutes ago, Ser Drewy said:

Really interesting article on the film

I think I agree with Michael Koresky's points a fair bit. 

@DMC You've raised a lot of the things that bugged me. I felt a lot of the narratives lacked development - Johnny Boy and Junior in particular, and it really struck me as odd how little context or even cause the hit on Dickie was given. It's intended to be a misfire - the Sopranos was pretty famous for that - but here it feels undercooked and poorly developed. Why did Junior get a hit on Dickie? The series was full of people - Junior, John Sack, Paulie - who wanted violence over petty stuff and got told 'no'. Here... who/why was it allowed?

But there's also Harold, the Newark Riots, Dickie's family... all of it felt like the bones of interesting material that wasn't given enough meat.

Huh, the article was written by two people. Very interesting, even if I disagree with most of the opinions expressed within.