US Politics: Don't Manchin the war...

[Centrist Simon Steele]

13 hours ago, ants said:

Well, if you believe Democrats won't hold the Senate for the next ten years anyway, then I agree ditching those you don't like from the middle won't cost you as much. Whining about states having two Senators each seems pretty pointless.

It also seems strange though that if you think this is the only time Dems will hold all three houses for the next ten years, that you wouldn't prioritise getting a deal done now, rather than standing on all or nothing. Since there will be no re-run in your view, so what you can get now is all you can get. I would have thought prioritising getting the maximum you can (e.g. by trading off the top line number for prioritisation of the spending on your priorities) would be the focus.

I don't think that's the progressive Dem's stance either. I do think its Simons and the @The Great Unwashed's views! 

What you want to do is go back a couple of pages and watch the Ro Khanna clip I posted of him in on Anderson Cooper (I believe). The clip is about 2 days old now, but he said, "We've already negotiated--significantly--down to 3.5 trillion." 

[Centrist Simon Steele]

35 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

Who even knows what it'll take it get Sinema on board.  Sounds like she's just not into it.  Guessing she's getting some cushy private sector job in the future.

Compromise until we can actually quantify the human suffering.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

The perfect is the enemy of the good:

https://www.npr.org/2021/10/02/1042686970/dot-furloughs-house-infrastructure-bill-transportation?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term=nprnews&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&fbclid=IwAR2I9WIQOdvjNJ5fBJzn88xpBOUwddmF5-mgF1jz2B_egkYMavymyy1MDz4

[A Horse Named Stranger]

So that's Manchin's fuck you to his entire party, President, Senate majority leader, house leadership.

Personally, if I were a left leaning house member, I'd made a ton of changes/amendments to the bipartisan infrastructure bill and send it back to the senate.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Centrist Simon Steele said:

What you want to do is go back a couple of pages and watch the Ro Khanna clip I posted of him in on Anderson Cooper (I believe). The clip is about 2 days old now, but he said, "We've already negotiated--significantly--down to 3.5 trillion." 

Lol. Clearly that's not negotiating with the people you actually need to convince. It's stunning how people cannot understand the very basics of this.

3 hours ago, larrytheimp said:

Who even knows what it'll take it get Sinema on board.  Sounds like she's just not into it.  Guessing she's getting some cushy private sector job in the future.

Why do you think I started discussing what real cuts would look like back in mid August? If you know what to look for, all of this should have been obvious.

[Larry of the Lawn]

4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Lol. Clearly that's not negotiating with the people you actually need to convince. It's stunning how people cannot understand the very basics of this.

Why do you think I started discussing what real cuts would look like back in mid August? If you know what to look for, all of this should have been obvious.

That's a really good point- if not for your guidance I doubt anyone would have thought to consider what was actually going to be in the bill.  You're a national treasure.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 minute ago, larrytheimp said:

That's a really good point- if not for your guidance I doubt anyone would have thought to consider what was actually going to be in the bill.  You're a national treasure.

More like a legend in my own mind, but I did tell you guys how this was going to play out. So maybe actually listen to me next time you want to negotiate something. 

[Larry of the Lawn]

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

More like a legend in my own mind, but I did tell you guys how this was going to play out. So maybe actually listen to me next time you want to negotiate something. 

No

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

No

Okay then, so let Schumer, Biden and Pelosi do it. They've done a good job, right? 

[DMC]

23 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I did tell you guys how this was going to play out.

No, you didn't.  Just the opposite.  Not to mention you haven't even understood the progressives' position the entire time.

[A True Kaniggit]

17 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Okay then, so let Schumer, Biden and Pelosi do it. They've done a good job, right? 

Perhaps? They’re the ones on the ground currently.

If this had a zero percentage chance of succeeding in the first place, then no one was ever going to do a “good job”. 
 

But it’s not over yet. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

4 minutes ago, DMC said:

No, you didn't.  Just the opposite.  Not to mention you haven't even understood the progressives' position the entire time.

You mean this?

Check the date.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

6 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Perhaps? They’re the ones on the ground currently.

If this had a zero percentage chance of succeeding in the first place, then no one was ever going to do a “good job”. 
 

But it’s not over yet. 

Schumer clearly has failed to be a good mediator in the Senate. Biden has only taken action in the last few weeks. Pelosi, I feel for her, she's been the one who has had to do all the dirty work so far. 

[DMC]

3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

You mean this?

Yes, thanks for proving my point.  You still don't understand that's a negotiating position.  And apparently you forgot all your apocalyptic talk about the breaking of the Democrats if the progressives insisted on delaying the BIF vote and demanding the two bills be passed together.  Instead, they succeeded and Joe Biden agreed with them.

[A True Kaniggit]

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

Schumer clearly has failed to be a good mediator in the Senate. Biden has only taken action in the last few weeks. Pelosi, I feel for her, she's been the one who has had to do all the dirty work so far. 

But how would you make a deal with Sinema?

All I see on the news is she won’t tell anyone what she wants and is currently making dad jokes. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Just now, DMC said:

Yes, thanks for proving my point.  You still don't understand that's a negotiating position.  

LOL!

It's not a negotiating point anymore. At all, and it was always a terrible one to begin with, just like I walked you through in August. It's a rallying call to the base for $$$. How do you not get this? To continue to say "accept the full package or else" when everyone has already said that's not going to happen is just lunacy. 

Quote

And apparently you forgot all your apocalyptic talk about the breaking of the Democrats if the progressives insisted on delaying the BIF vote and demanding the two bills be passed together.  Instead, they succeeded and Joe Biden agreed with them.

No, you are inserting "delay" when I said "kill." That's why you looked ridiculous before. The House moderates have been okay with delaying things, hence why it's not killing the bill. This is pretty simple.  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

5 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

But how would you make a deal with Sinema?

All I see on the news is she won’t tell anyone what she wants and is currently making dad jokes. 

I would have never dealt with her. It was always Manchin who you needed to lock up quickly, as I said in August. The point of the hypothetical I presented, and which many of you now kind of look silly to have disagreed with, was how to get things tied up quickly rather than let shit fester.  She likely doesn't break away if he is kept in line. I said back then ignore the cost of the bill and highlight what it does and how it can be passed. This is politics 101. 

[A True Kaniggit]

1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

I would have never dealt with her. It was always Manchin who you needed to lock up quickly, as I said in August. The point of the hypothetical I presented, and which many of you now kind of look silly to have disagreed with, was how to get things tied up quickly rather than let shit fester.  She likely doesn't break away if he is kept in line. I said back then ignore the cost of the bill and highlight what it does and how it can be passed. This is politics 101. 

So……. Your plan is you didn’t have a plan?

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

How do you not get this?

How do you not get it when I've quoted Jayapal specifically explaining it?

2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

No, you are inserting "delay" when I said "kill."

Nope, I specifically said the deadline was entirely arbitrary and maintaining leverage by demanding the two bills be passed together was perfectly reasonable.  Moreover, do you think Manchin would have even released that document with Schumer on Thursday if the progressives hadn't held the line?  He was dragging his feet and insisting on a "pause" beforehand.

And LOL at the moderates being always being "ok" with delaying the bill.  Another thing you don't understand.

[Larry of the Lawn]

3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I would have never dealt with her. It was always Manchin who you needed to lock up quickly, as I said in August. The point of the hypothetical I presented, and which many of you now kind of look silly to have disagreed with, was how to get things tied up quickly rather than let shit fester.  She likely doesn't break away if he is kept in line. I said back then ignore the cost of the bill and highlight what it does and how it can be passed. This is politics 101. 

What evidence of this could you possibly have?