Did Varys originally want Tyrion dead?

[The Bard of Banefort]

In Jaime's first AFFC chapter, we learn that Jaime forced Varys to help him free Tyrion after he lost his trial by combat:

Quote

He had waited in the eunuch's chambers that night, when at last he had decided not to let his little brother die. As he waited, he had sharpened his dagger with one hand, taking a queer comfort from the scrape-scrape-scrape of steel on stone. At the sound of footsteps he stood beside the door. Varys entered in a wash of powder and lavender. Jaime stepped out behind him, kicked him in the back of the knee, knelt on his chest, and shoved the knife up under his soft white chin, forcing his head up. "Why, Lord Varys," he'd said pleasantly, "fancy meeting you here."

"Ser Jaime?" Varys panted. "You frightened me."

"I meant to." When he twisted the dagger, a trickle of blood ran down the blade. "I was thinking you might help me pluck my brother from his cell before Ser Ilyn lops his head off. It is an ugly head, I grant you, but he only has the one."

"Yes . . . well . . . if you would . . . remove the blade . . . yes, gently, as it please my lord, gently, oh, I'm pricked . . ." The eunuch touched his neck and gaped at the blood on his fingers. "I have always abhorred the sight of my own blood."

"You'll have more to abhor shortly, unless you help me."

Varys struggled to a sitting position. "Your brother . . . if the Imp should vanish unaccountably from his cell, q-questions would be asked. I would f-fear for my life . . ."

"Your life is mine. I do not care what secrets you know. If Tyrion dies, you will not long outlive him, I promise you."

"Ah." The eunuch sucked the blood off his fingers. "You ask a dreadful thing . . . to loose the Imp who slew our lovely king. Or is it that you believe him innocent?"

"Innocent or guilty," Jaime had said, like the fool he was, "a Lannister pays his debts." The words had come so easy.

Judging by his protestations, Varys originally had no intention of saving Tyrion's life. Jaime's intervention forced him to change his plans and rope Tyrion into the fAegon conspiracy.

Do you think Varys wanted Tyrion dead (rather than it just being a matter of happenstance)? How would Tyrion's death have furthered Varys' goals?

[Mighthearmeroar]

We have no indication that Varys tried to save Tyrion on his own, right? We have no clear proof that Varys wanted him dead, either. Yes, he testified at the trial, but what choice did he have? Varys wanted to be in King's Landing and on the council for as long as possible, paving the way for fAegon. He well knew he would be suspected if Tyrion were to escape.

 

Quote

“Tyrion.” If he was afraid, Tywin Lannister gave no hint of it. “Who released you from
your cell?”
“I’d love to tell you, but I swore a holy oath.”
“The eunuch,” his father decided. “I’ll have his head for this. Is that my crossbow? Put it
down.”

But when push came to shove and Jamie forced his hand, Varys went into hiding and made good use of Tyrion in exile. I do think Varys wanted Tywin dead though, him helping Tyrion find his way to the Hand's chambers shows this.

[Willam Stark]

I don't think he wanted Tyrion dead, he just didn't care about his fate until Jaime forced his hand. It's Littlefinger and Olenna who used him as a decoy to hide their assassination, Cersei had organized his trial and did everything she could to lead him to death penalty. Varys had no other choices but follow her lead to keep his head and place at the Small Council. He changed his plan after all this and made good use of him as @Mighthearmeroar stated.

[Moiraine Sedai]

11 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

In Jaime's first AFFC chapter, we learn that Jaime forced Varys to help him free Tyrion after he lost his trial by combat:

Judging by his protestations, Varys originally had no intention of saving Tyrion's life. Jaime's intervention forced him to change his plans and rope Tyrion into the fAegon conspiracy.

Do you think Varys wanted Tyrion dead (rather than it just being a matter of happenstance)? How would Tyrion's death have furthered Varys' goals?

It wasn't time for Tyrion to die. Varys had a use for him. But if he should ever return to the Lannister camp, yeah, Varys would want him dead.  His job is to cause problems for Cersei.

[Lord Varys]

Nope, the entire scenario looks as if Varys fooled Jaime into 'forcing him to free Tyrion'. He wasn't surprised by Jaime in his cell. He knew he was there and allowed himself to be surprised.

There is no chance that Varys was truly surprised by Jaime, nor is it realistic Jaime actually overpowered or threatened Varys. Varys may be a eunuch, but he is no effeminate weakling. He was born a slave and rose to the Small Council after a long career as a thief, extortionist, and, quite possibly, murderer. The idea that a guy who survived on the streets of Myr and Pentos was truly overpowered by a one-handed cripple who can no longer fight properly - much less dress himself or not make a fool of himself at table - is pretty ridiculous.

Even if we were to assume that Jaime actually did surprise Varys - Varys most definitely would have been able to disarm and overpower Jaime in return - either then and there, or later while he was pretending to free Tyrion. Jaime and Tyrion both could have gotten the crossbow-and-dagger treatment Kevan later got from Varys and the little birds.

Varys also had ample time and opportunity to inform Tywin and/or Cersei about Jaime's betrayal if he didn't want to free Tyrion. Not to mention that he could have just murdered Jaime and gotten rid of his corpse. If he had left some clues implicating another faction, nobody would have even suspected Varys of being involved.

Finally, if Varys hadn't wanted to use Tyrion he could have just killed him after he had gotten him on the ship. Jaime had no means to ensure that Varys would keep his word.

Considering Tyrion's relative usefulness for Aegon's cause - dragonlore, political acumen, knowledge about his family - we can be reasonably sure that Varys would have freed Tyrion of his own even if Jaime hadn't 'forced his hand'.

[The Bard of Banefort]

3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Nope, the entire scenario looks as if Varys fooled Jaime into 'forcing him to free Tyrion'. He wasn't surprised by Jaime in his cell. He knew he was there and allowed himself to be surprised.

There is no chance that Varys was truly surprised by Jaime, nor is it realistic Jaime actually overpowered or threatened Varys. Varys may be a eunuch, but he is no effeminate weakling. He was born a slave and rose to the Small Council after a long career as a thief, extortionist, and, quite possibly, murderer. The idea that a guy who survived on the streets of Myr and Pentos was truly overpowered by a one-handed cripple who can no longer fight properly - much less dress himself or not make a fool of himself at table - is pretty ridiculous.

Even if we were to assume that Jaime actually did surprise Varys - Varys most definitely would have been able to disarm and overpower Jaime in return - either then and there, or later while he was pretending to free Tyrion. Jaime and Tyrion both could have gotten the crossbow-and-dagger treatment Kevan later got from Varys and the little birds.

Varys also had ample time and opportunity to inform Tywin and/or Cersei about Jaime's betrayal if he didn't want to free Tyrion. Not to mention that he could have just murdered Jaime and gotten rid of his corpse. If he had left some clues implicating another faction, nobody would have even suspected Varys of being involved.

Finally, if Varys hadn't wanted to use Tyrion he could have just killed him after he had gotten him on the ship. Jaime had no means to ensure that Varys would keep his word.

Considering Tyrion's relative usefulness for Aegon's cause - dragonlore, political acumen, knowledge about his family - we can be reasonably sure that Varys would have freed Tyrion of his own even if Jaime hadn't 'forced his hand'.

I don’t think Varys had any hopes of overpowering Jaime; from what I gather, he got by on his wits rather than his brawn. I do agree that him taking Tyrion away rather than killing him indicates that Varys found him more valuable as as ally. This was after he killed Tywin though. Up until then, he may have worried that Tyrion would still feel too much loyalty to his family to help the Targaryens.  I also wonder if Varys thought that removing Tyrion would weaken the Lannisters politically (and as we know, it did).

Of course, Varys will probably regret not killing Tyrion eventually. He convinced Aegon to invade Westeros without Daenerys, and is now probably going to aid Dany in her inevitable war against Aegon. And whether he wants to admit it or not, Tyrion still loves Jaime. 

[Ivan Tsarevich]

One might also wonder how much longer Varys could afford to let Tywin live at that point. War in the south looks pretty much done (Robb dead, Joff dead, Balon alive) and he would stabilize things further, strengthening the alliance with the Tyrells, sending Cersei away, trying to get Jaime out of the KG and and facing the Sparrows. I think Tywin is much harder for Varys to influence than Aerys or Tyrion, and the things he would proceed to do would be harmful to the eventual Targaryen invasion. What more can Varys hope after Oberyn is dead? Is the unsure position on the council actually worth more than creating a power vacuum and doing away with Tywin now?

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

I think Varys is full of shit.  We don't see it all, especially the conversation with Jamie but I really think that Varys deliberately engineered the whole thing, from Tyrion's release to Tywin's assassination. The way he talks to Tyrion about the number of rungs just seems too manipulative to be accidental.  I don't know, there's not a lot of specific textual evidence that  can be latched onto that I could find, it's just the overall 'feel' of the whole Varys and Tyrion in the walls scene that seemed to me that Tyrion was being fed just enough that he would see the opportunity to zip the old man on his way out the back. If Vary didn't  plan the whole thing, it couldn't have worked out better for his Faegon agenda if he did.

[Lord Varys]

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I don’t think Varys had any hopes of overpowering Jaime; from what I gather, he got by on his wits rather than his brawn.

The way Jaime recalls it is that Varys walked into his cell whistling a tune - that is Varys announcing that he is coming, Varys playing a role, Varys signalling Jaime he can get ready to attack him now. The real Varys doesn't whistle and he isn't pushed around by cripples.

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I do agree that him taking Tyrion away rather than killing him indicates that Varys found him more valuable as as ally. This was after he killed Tywin though. Up until then, he may have worried that Tyrion would still feel too much loyalty to his family to help the Targaryens.  I also wonder if Varys thought that removing Tyrion would weaken the Lannisters politically (and as we know, it did).

If Varys had not wanted Tyrion he would not have been forced to continue the mummer's farce. He could have killed both Jaime and Tyrion down in the dungeons and then he could have personally killed Tywin and whoever else he wanted dead.

I'm sure, Varys telling Tyrion how to get to Tywin was a final test - his way to break away Tyrion from his family for good (he didn't know in advance that Jaime would also tell him the Tysha story). If he hadn't done that he may have not send him to Illyrio. Or he may have sent him to Illyrio with different directions, ensuring Illyrio would give Tyrion less independence when interacting with Aegon and Connington.

But then - Varys would obviously have murdered Tywin himself framing Tyrion for it even if Tyrion hadn't done it. Who would have believed Tyrion wasn't the murderer if Varys had done it? Nobody.

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Of course, Varys will probably regret not killing Tyrion eventually. He convinced Aegon to invade Westeros without Daenerys, and is now probably going to aid Dany in her inevitable war against Aegon. And whether he wants to admit it or not, Tyrion still loves Jaime. 

Perhaps, but I don't think Tyrion will play a crucial role in causing a war between Dany and Aegon. He played a crucial role in triggering Aegon's invasion, but that was the smart thing to do at that point.

1 hour ago, TsarGrey said:

One might also wonder how much longer Varys could afford to let Tywin live at that point. War in the south looks pretty much done (Robb dead, Joff dead, Balon alive) and he would stabilize things further, strengthening the alliance with the Tyrells, sending Cersei away, trying to get Jaime out of the KG and and facing the Sparrows. I think Tywin is much harder for Varys to influence than Aerys or Tyrion, and the things he would proceed to do would be harmful to the eventual Targaryen invasion. What more can Varys hope after Oberyn is dead? Is the unsure position on the council actually worth more than creating a power vacuum and doing away with Tywin now?

If Tyrion hadn't murdered Tywin, Varys would have done it himself. We see that with the Kevan and Pycelle now. And he would have framed Tyrion.

1 hour ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

I think Varys is full of shit.  We don't see it all, especially the conversation with Jamie but I really think that Varys deliberately engineered the whole thing, from Tyrion's release to Tywin's assassination. The way he talks to Tyrion about the number of rungs just seems too manipulative to be accidental.  I don't know, there's not a lot of specific textual evidence that  can be latched onto that I could find, it's just the overall 'feel' of the whole Varys and Tyrion in the walls scene that seemed to me that Tyrion was being fed just enough that he would see the opportunity to zip the old man on his way out the back. If Vary didn't  plan the whole thing, it couldn't have worked out better for his Faegon agenda if he did.

Of course, the entire thing was arranged. Varys wanted Tyrion to see Shae in Tywin's bed, and he wanted Tyrion to murder Tywin.

[Canon Claude]

10 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

 

Perhaps, but I don't think Tyrion will play a crucial role in causing a war between Dany and Aegon. He played a crucial role in triggering Aegon's invasion, but that was the smart thing to do at that point.

 

Howso? I’m curious what you mean by “the smart thing to do”. We still don’t know if Tyrion was giving that advice in good faith.

[Lord Varys]

1 hour ago, Canon Claude said:

Howso? I’m curious what you mean by “the smart thing to do”. We still don’t know if Tyrion was giving that advice in good faith.

We know Tyrion didn't give the advice in good faith. He wanted to fuck with Varys/Illyrio's plan for Aegon and use him as a weapon to hurt Jaime and Cersei.

But it was still the smart thing to do when they learned that Daenerys wasn't coming west. Going to Meereen would have meant they showed up while Dany was gone to the Dothraki Sea/presumed dead, which means they would have been caught up in whatever goes on there for months. Outcome uncertain, especially if Aegon were to go to Slaver's Bay Quentyn style (i.e. incognito and with only a few companions). But even with the entire Golden Company there things could have gotten ugly pretty fast.

Meanwhile, somebody would consolidate things in Westeros, preparing the continent to repel a Targaryen invasion.

[Canon Claude]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

We know Tyrion didn't give the advice in good faith. He wanted to fuck with Varys/Illyrio's plan for Aegon and use him as a weapon to hurt Jaime and Cersei.

But it was still the smart thing to do when they learned that Daenerys wasn't coming west. Going to Meereen would have meant they showed up while Dany was gone to the Dothraki Sea/presumed dead, which means they would have been caught up in whatever goes on there for months. Outcome uncertain, especially if Aegon were to go to Slaver's Bay Quentyn style (i.e. incognito and with only a few companions). But even with the entire Golden Company there things could have gotten ugly pretty fast.

Meanwhile, somebody would consolidate things in Westeros, preparing the continent to repel a Targaryen invasion.

Well, then it was a fluke. Tyrion would have had no way to know what Daenerys was going through at the time, surely? 

[Hugorfonics]

3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Varys doesn't whistle and he isn't pushed around by cripples.

Varys doesn't whistle but he is pushed around by cripples.

 

At the sound of footsteps he stood beside the door. Varys entered in a wash of powder and lavender. Jaime stepped out behind him, kicked him in the back of the knee, knelt on his chest, and shoved the knife up under his soft white chin, forcing his head up

 

There's no indication that Jaime didn't get the drop on him 

[FictionIsntReal]

Do we know of Varys ever taking on someone in hand-to-hand combat who is tougher than one-handed Jaime?

10 hours ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

If Vary didn't  plan the whole thing, it couldn't have worked out better for his Faegon agenda if he did.

That's the Watsonian explanation. The Doyleist is that GRRM is writing the series and plans things out in a way no individual character can, putting his thumb on the scale in ways no character would predict in advance.

[Lord Varys]

14 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

Well, then it was a fluke. Tyrion would have had no way to know what Daenerys was going through at the time, surely? 

As I said, Tyrion didn't have Aegon's best interests at heart when he fed him his idea on the Rhoyne ... but when the decision was made at the war council with the Golden Company it was the right decision. And I don't think Tyrion is going to push Dany to go to war with Aegon. He spent time with Aegon, Connington and their companions. If things start to escalate between them I guess Tyrion will rather try to keep the peace, act as an envoy trying to come to an understanding rather than doing his best to ensure there will be war.

Tyrion as a leader of Dany's party has a vested interest that they get to the Iron Throne with less violence rather than more violence. Especially if they have other enemies in Westeros aside from Aegon.

14 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Varys doesn't whistle but he is pushed around by cripples.

At the sound of footsteps he stood beside the door. Varys entered in a wash of powder and lavender. Jaime stepped out behind him, kicked him in the back of the knee, knelt on his chest, and shoved the knife up under his soft white chin, forcing his head up

There's no indication that Jaime didn't get the drop on him 

The point is that it seems clear to me that Varys gave Jaime a show here. He knew Jaime was hiding in his cell and he allowed him to overpower him and 'force him' to free Tyrion. Jaime is a moron who never realizes when he is led around by the nose.

8 hours ago, FictionIsntReal said:

Do we know of Varys ever taking on someone in hand-to-hand combat who is tougher than one-handed Jaime?

We can expect that he did that, since Varys survived on the streets, rose to the position of prince of thieves in Myr and later in Pentos rose again from the gutters with the help of Illyrio.

And toughness doesn't really fit into this. Jaime is a clumsy cripple in ASoS - he still is in AFfC - while Varys grew up on the streets. He wouldn't be intimidated by him. And he would know how to fight back. Varys plays the role of the effeminate eunuch - but that's a role. The real Varys is a ruthless, brutal guy.

Even if we assume that, for some reason, Varys was suprised and overpowered by Jaime, then this still doesn't explain why Varys did what Jaime wanted when he could have immediately murdered Jaime after the latter lowered his dagger. We learned how ruthlessly and easily Varys and his little birds murder folks, so getting rid of Jaime would have been very easy.

[Hugorfonics]

10 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

The point is that it seems clear to me that Varys gave Jaime a show here. He knew Jaime was hiding in his cell and he allowed him to overpower him and 'force him' to free Tyrion. Jaime is a moron who never realizes when he is led around by the nose.

Why does Varys need Jaime to free Tyrion?

10 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

And toughness doesn't really fit into this. Jaime is a clumsy cripple in ASoS - he still is in AFfC - while Varys grew up on the streets. He wouldn't be intimidated by him. And he would know how to fight back. Varys plays the role of the effeminate eunuch - but that's a role. The real Varys is a ruthless, brutal guy.

Ok Varys grew up in the streets, Jaime grew up in fucking kingslayer land! He's the greatest warrior since Symon Stareyes, another cripple. Yes Jamies a cripple, but he's still knightly trained and his kicking legs and knife hand work fine. 

13 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Even if we assume that, for some reason, Varys was suprised and overpowered by Jaime, then this still doesn't explain why Varys did what Jaime wanted when he could have immediately murdered Jaime after the latter lowered his dagger. We learned how ruthlessly and easily Varys and his little birds murder folks, so getting rid of Jaime would have been very easy.

Why murder Jaime? Look, either way the world shifts and Varys has to hide, if he doesn't free Tyrion but kills Jaime instead he's still just a spider in the wall. 

Perhaps Jaime didn't literally force Varys' hand,  but he pretty much did. 

[Lord Varys]

11 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Why does Varys need Jaime to free Tyrion?

He doesn't need him, but it is convenient if Jaime Lannister is the one behind the freeing of Tyrion, even more so if his escape also includes the murder of Tywin Lannister.

It is quite obvious that Varys will eventually reveal to Cersei that Jaime freed Tyrion, thus completely severing the bond between the twins. Varys has the Kingslayer by the balls after 'he forced him' to do this.

11 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Ok Varys grew up in the streets, Jaime grew up in fucking kingslayer land! He's the greatest warrior since Symon Stareyes, another cripple. Yes Jamies a cripple, but he's still knightly trained and his kicking legs and knife hand work fine. 

No, it isn't. At least not before he has started to train again. Which he didn't when he 'surprised Varys'.

11 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Why murder Jaime? Look, either way the world shifts and Varys has to hide, if he doesn't free Tyrion but kills Jaime instead he's still just a spider in the wall. 

Because if Varys was truly forced then he didn't want to save Tyrion, didn't want to do Jaime's bidding. And if that were the case - which it isn't - then Varys could have done quite a few things (murder among them) to resolve the Jaime problem. He could also have informed Tywin and Cersei what Jaime wanted him to do, etc.

I mean, imagine for a moment you are Varys and Jaime shows up and tries to force you to do something that will put you in a very bad position with the other folks in charge. What do you do? You can either rat out Jaime to Tywin and Cersei, you can kill him and depose of his body, or you can do his bidding but then you have to hide.

And we do know that Varys has no problems hiding beneath the Red Keep. He was not forced in that position. He chose to do that because he wanted to.

[Hugorfonics]

2 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

He doesn't need him, but it is convenient if Jaime Lannister is the one behind the freeing of Tyrion

Convenient for Aegon and Jon C? Who cares who frees him.

3 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

It is quite obvious that Varys will eventually reveal to Cersei that Jaime freed Tyrion, thus completely severing the bond between the twins

She won't believe him, plus they hate each other these days anyways. 

I don't see Varys talking to Cersei about anything and living through it

5 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

No, it isn't. At least not before he has started to train again. Which he didn't when he 'surprised Varys'.

Its not a fair fight, its hiding with a dagger, Arya style pretty much. Its not about strength, its timing and technique which Ser Jaime surely has

7 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Because if Varys was truly forced then he didn't want to save Tyrion, didn't want to do Jaime's bidding.

I think Varys wanted to save Tyrion, just not enough to do anything about it.

9 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

He could also have informed Tywin and Cersei what Jaime wanted him to do, etc.

Jaime would deny it and Varys would be dead by morning.

10 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

And we do know that Varys has no problems hiding beneath the Red Keep. He was not forced in that position. He chose to do that because he wanted to.

It was his fall back situation. For the past 20 years the Spider has been lying and scheming to the scariest and most powerful people in the nation, he's always had a back up plan

[Lord Varys]

42 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Convenient for Aegon and Jon C? Who cares who frees him.

It is convenient because Varys can use Jaime's involvement for his own ends.

42 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

She won't believe him, plus they hate each other these days anyways. 

Nope, they don't. Cersei still wants Jaime to defend her and she is concerned that he disappeared in the Riverlands. Also, I didn't mean to imply Varys tells Cersei in conversation what Jaime did - rather, that he passes on this information to her backed up by actual evidence.

42 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Its not a fair fight, its hiding with a dagger, Arya style pretty much. Its not about strength, its timing and technique which Ser Jaime surely has

Again, even if that were the case - Jaime lowered the dagger eventually, and later met Varys again when he neither surprised nor threatened him.

42 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

I think Varys wanted to save Tyrion, just not enough to do anything about it.

Then he would also have not done anything after Jaime approached him. He would have just disappeared.

42 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Jaime would deny it and Varys would be dead by morning.

LOL, and what if Varys told Cersei/Tywin to accompany him down to the dungeons, to hide at a convenient spot and witness Jaime and Tyrion's tearful reunion? Surely that would have convinced them that Jaime was behind the entire thing.

Bottom line, Jaime's idea to threaten/blackmail Varys into freeing Tyrion was stupid. It could never work unless Varys wanted to free Tyrion, too. Which is what was the case. I'm not sure even Jaime believes he forced Varys into doing that ... certainly the subsequent murder of Tywin should have convinced Jaime that Varys and, perhaps, Tyrion played him there. Keep in mind that Jaime imagines Varys and Tyrion enjoying themselves on the ship he thinks they are on.

[Hugorfonics]

44 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Again, even if that were the case - Jaime lowered the dagger eventually, and later met Varys again when he neither surprised nor threatened him.

That is the case. Varys was not whistling and Jaime used his warrior tricks to put Varys in a compromising situation.

For the past 20 years Varys has played a dangerous game in the open, cause discord until Aegon turns 21 or some shit. So yes Varys wanted Tyrion freed, but he also wanted Ned freed and didn't do anything about that.

47 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Then he would also have not done anything after Jaime approached him. He would have just disappeared.

Varys fears and respects Tyrion, he knows what he's capable of, it just too hot. Imp ain't worth it( honestly he shoulda never gone). But with Jaimes knife under Varys' throat the scales get shifted.  

The game of kingslayer and mouse is on, so either way the life Varys has known is over, so why not free Tyrion? It can't get hotter then this, and if Illyrio and Jon approve, how much damage could Tyrion do? (Lol)