What are your favorite theories of all time?

[Mourning Star]

24 minutes ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

I do like that spin. Weren't BR's Dragon's Teeth a large portion of that honour guard though?  Mightn't they have been loyal to Rivers if he had given an order to commandeer the ship?  

 

Presumably they were the ones in the dungeons from Aemon's quote above, and later played a large part in electing Bloodraven Lord Commander.

Also, they were the Raven's Teeth... Dragon's actually have teeth, which is not nearly so funny! And, I think there is a larger joke about toothless birds going on in reference to the three eyed crow...

The old woman smiled at him toothlessly. "My stories? No, my little lord, not mine. The stories are, before me and after me, before you too."

...

"His time was past," her handmaid Irri declared. "No man should live longer than his teeth."

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

1 minute ago, Mourning Star said:

Presumably they were the ones in the dungeons from Aemon's quote above, and later played a large part in electing Bloodraven Lord Commander.

 

Why would they have been in the dungeons though? They had been loyal soldiers. I guess it comes down to the timeline of the council or what details the author adds which didn't make AWOIAF.

[Mourning Star]

1 minute ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

Why would they have been in the dungeons though? They had been loyal soldiers. I guess it comes down to the timeline of the council or what details the author adds which didn't make AWOIAF.

They were loyal to Bloodraven, who was trying to be crowned king. 

They likely assisted in the murder of Aenys Blackfyre, and imprisoning Bloodraven (before he was sentenced to die, but then allowed to take the black) may well have necessitated their arrest anyway.

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

1 minute ago, Mourning Star said:

They were loyal to Bloodraven, who was trying to be crowned king. 

They likely assisted in the murder of Aenys Blackfyre, and imprisoning Bloodraven (before he was sentenced to die, but then allowed to take the black) may well have necessitated their arrest anyway.

But if they were loyal to Bloodraven how could they be trusted to ensure that he would take the black? I believe that it's fair to assume that at least a portion of them would rather try their luck as fugitives in Essos than shiver on the Wall. If there was a fear that he would defect, I would think that the Raven's Teeth would be the last people that would be sent up as Aemon's honour guard.

Also this means that the guy with a thousand eyes and one got blindsided by his nephew and then accepted it. I find both ideas a little difficult to get behind.

Again though, I'd say that there's a lot of missing info and I really don't want to dispute your theory here any furtheer because we're just posting our favourites and no one's going to post their theories if there's a jerk saying 'nope!' after every one. It's absolutely possible that the RT's were a small portion of said honour guard and it is possible that BR was scheming on his own.  Either way, in a world where we get ASOIAF completed, I sure hope there's a D&E someday that gives us the full story of Ageon's ascendance.

[Mourning Star]

8 minutes ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

But if they were loyal to Bloodraven how could they be trusted to ensure that he would take the black? I believe that it's fair to assume that at least a portion of them would rather try their luck as fugitives in Essos than shiver on the Wall. If there was a fear that he would defect, I would think that the Raven's Teeth would be the last people that would be sent up as Aemon's honour guard.

Also this means that the guy with a thousand eyes and one got blindsided by his nephew and then accepted it. I find both ideas a little difficult to get behind.

Again though, I'd say that there's a lot of missing info and I really don't want to dispute your theory here any furtheer because we're just posting our favourites and no one's going to post their theories if there's a jerk saying 'nope!' after every one. It's absolutely possible that the RT's were a small portion of said honour guard and it is possible that BR was scheming on his own.  Either way, in a world where we get ASOIAF completed, I sure hope there's a D&E someday that gives us the full story of Ageon's ascendance.

I don't think they were trusted, I think they were in the dungeons and sent to the wall as prisoners to take the black, as is tradition.

Yet after the sentence of death was pronounced, Aegon offered Bloodraven the chance to take the black and join the Night's Watch. This he did. Ser Brynden Rivers set sail for the Wall late in the year of 233 AC. (No one intercepted his ship). Two hundred men went with him, many of them archers from Bloodraven's personal guard, the Raven's Teeth. The king's brother, Maester Aemon, was also amongst them.

If you compare this to Aemon's quote it sure seems like the Raven's Teeth were the men in the dungeons (or at least many of them). They may have been given the same choice as Bloodraven, the Wall or death.

Egg wanted me to help him rule, but I knew my place was here. He sent me north aboard the Golden Dragon, and insisted that his friend Ser Duncan see me safe to Eastwatch. No recruit had arrived at the Wall with so much pomp since Nymeria sent the Watch six kings in golden fetters. Egg emptied out the dungeons too, so I would not need to say my vows alone. My honor guard, he called them. One was no less a man than Brynden Rivers. Later he was chosen lord commander."

We can agree on hoping to one day get more material to help us speculate wildly, or maybe even an ending.

[CamiloRP]

Here I go:

- Lemmongate

- Littlefinger is the one who sent the catspaw after bran (and he has greendreams).

- The poison was in Tyrion's pie and he was LF's true target in the purple wedding.

- Ramsay killed Little Walder.

[Mister Smikes]

3 hours ago, Prince of the North said:

-Aegon is an unknowing Blackfyre pretender (fAegon) through his mother Serra and is Illyrio's son.

Same here, except I think Serra & Illyrio are the grandparents.

[James Steller]

2 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

 

- Ramsay killed Little Walder.

... But why??

[Tucu]

28 minutes ago, James Steller said:

... But why??

Maybe because he was a witness of the murder of the miller's boys.

[Jaenara Belarys]

9 minutes ago, Tucu said:

Maybe because he was a witness of the murder of the miller's boys.

Which is totally proof for Ramsay killing Little Walder. 

[The Bard of Banefort]

I love the theory that after Tyrion was born, Tywin--believing that his wife had been unfaithful--faked Joanna's death and forced her to join the silent sisters, which is where she came in possession of a glass candle that she used to communicate with Jaime in AFFC. It's complete tinfoil, and I don't believe it for a second, but it's so crazy that I love it. It would also reinforces that Tywin truly is a monster, and not some tragic character whose true love died in childbirth.

As for more plausible theories, I like B+S=M and the Ashford Tourney Theory, which I've found newfound faith in after learning that that there are only two Hardyngs in ASOIAF: Harry and Humphrey. 

[Ser Leftwich]

55 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I love the theory that after Tyrion was born, Tywin--believing that his wife had been unfaithful--faked Joanna's death and forced her to join the silent sisters, which is where she came in possession of a glass candle that she used to communicate with Jaime in AFFC. It's complete tinfoil, and I don't believe it for a second, but it's so crazy that I love it. It would also reinforces that Tywin truly is a monster, and not some tragic character whose true love died in childbirth.

As for more plausible theories, I like B+S=M and the Ashford Tourney Theory, which I've found newfound faith in after learning that that there are only two Hardyngs in ASOIAF: Harry and Humphrey. 

My brain is completely blank, what is B+S=M?

[The Bard of Banefort]

5 minutes ago, Ser Leftwich said:

My brain is completely blank, what is B+S=M?

Bloodraven+Shiera=Melisandre

[Mister Smikes]

Dunno about "favorite".  But I have a few I subscribe to.  Many of them are unpopular.  The more unpopular they are the more I like them.  I'm perverse that way.

-  Bran ate Jojen in ADWD.

-  Dragons Galore, so the Second Dance can be as Chaotic as Possible:

-----  Summer and Hodor saw a dragon at Winterfell;

-----  There is a dragon on Skagos;

-----  "Statues" on Dragonstone are really advanced greyscale - will be awakened by kingsblood human sacrifice;

-----   A dragon still hides in the Mountains of the Moon.

-----   There's a dragon at Hardhome.

-  Varys is a woman.  (Specifically, Varys is Serra).

-  Young Griff is a Blackfyre descendant.  (Specifically, Lemore is his mom, and Illyrio & Serra are his grandparents).

-  Lemore is Mellario

-  Baby Aegon and Baby Quentyn were swapped at age 3; Young Griff is the real Quentyn; Frog is the real Aegon.

-  Frog is Alive and Well / Tatters is Burnt and Dead.  (Frog will ride Viserion over the battle of Meereen, wearing the cloak of tatters, causing the Windblown to switch sides, as per Archie's plan that he could not explain before Barristan)

-  Frog is the Prince that was Promised.

- The House with the Red Door is not in Braavos  (Specifically, it is at the Tower of Joy, and the Willam she recalls is Dustin).

- Dany will ride a Direwolf (3 mounts will she ride).

- Arya and Nymeria will never reunite; this is her penalty for becoming No-One.  Nymeria will bond with another who reclaims her Stark identity (Sansa?  Dany?)

-  Myrcella is dead from Dorkstar's poison blade; Rosamund has doubled for her since.

-  Dany is the girl in grey from Mel's vision.  The frozen lake is the Gods Eye.

-  Sam has been offed by Fake Pate.

-  Sandor's Destiny:  Hedge Knight; Knight Errant, Mystery Knight, Righter of Wrongs, Defender of the Weak, True Knight, Dragonslayer, Sword of the Morning.  (with Edric Dayne as his squire, they will be mistaken for Brienne and Pod).

-  Zombie Brienne will don the Hound Helm; her undead mission will be to mercilessly hunt kingslayers, as per her oath (she will be mistaken for Sandor; Sansa will be her final target).

-- Zombie Jaime will return to Kings Landing to strangle Cersei.  He (it) is the Valonquar.

-  Daario is Euron.  (his Stormcrows crucified the 163 children).

-  Tyrion will die and live his Second Life as a dragon.  (Probably Rhaegal.  Perhaps he will descend on Casterly Rock; slay its inhabitants; hoard its gold; and devour maidens.  Perhaps Jon Snow, his former friend, will slay him.)

-  Aeron Greyjoy will sit on the Seastone Chair, with Falia Flowers as his Queen.

-  Benjen Stark is the 3-eyed crow (the 1001 eyed raven is something else, and a villain as well).

-  Bonifer Hasty is a descendant of Dunk, father of Rhaegar, and grandfather of the 3-headed dragon.

-  The ticking wildfire time bomb under King's Landing will explode.  Goodbye, KL.

[Rondo]

I like theories that are possibilities.  I like Brandon Stark + Lyanna Stark = Jon Snow.

The Starks reflect the nobles of Valyria.

[PrettyLittlePsycho]

Honerable mention (but total tinfoil):

The books will actually be finished one day.

[Lord Lannister]

6 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Which is totally proof for Ramsay killing Little Walder. 

Seems legit. It also could be as simple as Ramsay likes killing people. 

[CamiloRP]

14 hours ago, James Steller said:

... But why??

Essentially, to force Roose to kick the Manderlys and Freys out of Winterfell, with the Frey forces spent, the Dreadfort men outnumber everyone else and Ramsay can claim it without significant pushback from Walda's family.

This is based on the fact that I don't think BW as able to do it, or would want to, since he had little motive (yes, he wants to move up the line of succession, but doing it by killing someone who's like twentieth in line seems stupid, and BW is supposedly very smart) and it would be really hard for him to "butcher" LW who's twice his size and beats him at every physical competition (lord of the crossing and jousting). He was there when LW was killed tho, as the blood on him shows.

My version of events goes like this: Luton dices with LW, looses on purpose (is unlikely that a nine year old boy would win against a man) and promises to pay him latter that night. They meet, but BW is with him, Ramsay butchers LW and convinces BW to keep it a secret (by promisses or treats or both) and he even convinces BW to "discover" the corpse some time later, therefore instigating conflict. Then the whole thing happens, Ramsay offers BW a cloak made of the skin of the man who murdered LW, which sounds more like a treat towards him than a reward, a fight happens and even tho the fight is between Manderly and Frey men, Ramsay murders Luton to keep him quiet (the text even says that he 'silences' him). Then Roose is forced to send Freys and Marnderlys outside.

[Daeron the Daring]

20 hours ago, Mourning Star said:

I disagree.

He was 58, and we do not know if he had children, but we do know he wanted to marry Shiera Seastar.

Bloodraven was himself a legitimized bastard, but it's hard to for us to know his opinion on the matter, as we have so little to go off of.

58 is rather old in a medieval setup. In fact, very old. And people aren't really fertile either at that age.

That he wanted to marry Shiera changes nothing. The two loved each other, yet Shiera always refused to marry Brynden, as if she knew it doesn't fit her future roles, or anything like that. If, let's say, they had a child together that could've inherited after Brynden, we would know. He wouldn't just pull out a guy from the shadows. That was never his goal anyway, since he wanted to marry his halfsister her entire life.

20 hours ago, Mourning Star said:

This doesn't really make any sense.

'We have too little to go off' to claim it doesn't make any sense. The idea is rather tinfoil, and I personally know that. I don't think that's actually the case, but I do consider it a possibility (an unlikely one, but still).

 

20 hours ago, Mourning Star said:

There was no reason to call a council to justify crowning Aegon. Outside of Bloodraven himself, there isn't another compelling claim to justify such an action, and once you have passed over Vaella and Maegor, why not pass over half-peasant Egg too?

The Great Council dismissed Prince Daeron's sweet but simple-minded daughter Vaella immediately. Only a few spoke up for Aerion Brightflame's son Maegor

Nobody was starting a war to defend the claims of Vaella or Maegor.

Bloodraven clearly never intended a Blackfyre to be chosen, he literally decapitated Aenys Blackfyre and paraded his head in front of the gathered lords.

And Aemon was never a claimant. 

It is often overlooked that Bloodraven was legitimized along with the Blackfyres and the rest of Aegon the Unworthy Great Bastards, however he clearly had a claim to the throne.

It also helps reframe a the story as a whole (and helps it make more sense) once you realize Bloodraven might not be the wise old teacher in a tree trying to help with magic (despite accomplishing basically nothing productive if that's his goal), but instead is a bitter ancient power who feels wronged by the nation he spent a lifetime "serving", and who watched his family get deposed as the Blackfyres once again loom in the east. Rather than trying to orchestrate some defense of the realms of man, he is actually the one behind the return of the Others.

Brynden and the other children of Aegon IV being legitimized doesn't change the fact that none of these people, including Brynden, were ever considered as claimants at the Great Council. Noone spoke up for them, not even themselves for their own claims. If Brynden wanted to be king, he would've never called a Great Council. The assumption that Brynden wanted to crown himself with the help of a Great Council is rather nonsense. He was not only a generally hated figure, but also a man people considered a kinslayer, a wielder of evil magical abilities, and a follower of the Old Gods. That's not a person anyone would vote for at the Great Council, so the fact that he was the one that assembled it basically proves he did not want to be king. 

If he wanted to be king, he would've murdered other claimants, not Aenys Blackfyre, or not assemble a great council and take the throne by force, OR, since he was and is a greenseer, he would've taken a claimant's body with his abilities. Similar to what Varamyr tried, who was a skinchanger only. For a greenseer, taking another's body would be a game, to Brynden as well. He could've done it before or after the council as well. Taking Egg's body would've been no challenge to him, nor taking Duncan the Small's.

An all time bad guy Brynden who tried to bec#ome king as well would fit your theory better, I get it, but it really doesn't work.

[Mourning Star]

27 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

58 is rather old in a medieval setup. In fact, very old. And people aren't really fertile either at that age.

Sure 58 is older by medieval standards compared to today but you are flat out wrong about fertility both irl and in the series.

Also, Bloodraven may already have had children, we simply don't know. Or maybe Bloodraven didn't care about an heir, or didn't plan to die... or maybe he planned to name one of the children claimants his heir. There are a number of obvious possible solutions here, that are trivial obstacles in the face of such ambition.

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That he wanted to marry Shiera changes nothing. The two loved each other, yet Shiera always refused to marry Brynden, as if she knew it doesn't fit her future roles, or anything like that. If, let's say, they had a child together that could've inherited after Brynden, we would know. He wouldn't just pull out a guy from the shadows. That was never his goal anyway, since he wanted to marry his halfsister her entire life.

We do not know they loved each other. Nor why Shiera refused to marry him. 

We don't know about a child, but we don't even know what happened to Shiera, so it's wild to assume we'd know of a kid.

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'We have too little to go off' to claim it doesn't make any sense. The idea is rather tinfoil, and I personally know that. I don't think that's actually the case, but I do consider it a possibility (an unlikely one, but still).

This is unintelligible to me... I think you mean you disagree? ok...

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Brynden and the other children of Aegon IV being legitimized doesn't change the fact that none of these people, including Brynden, were ever considered as claimants at the Great Council. Noone spoke up for them, not even themselves for their own claims. If Brynden wanted to be king, he would've never called a Great Council. The assumption that Brynden wanted to crown himself with the help of a Great Council is rather nonsense. He was not only a generally hated figure, but also a man people considered a kinslayer, a wielder of evil magical abilities, and a follower of the Old Gods. That's not a person anyone would vote for at the Great Council, so the fact that he was the one that assembled it basically proves he did not want to be king. 

wrong... have you heard of the Blackfyre rebelions?

The Blackfyre claim springs entirely from the same act of legitimization which applies to Bloodraven, and there was literally a Blackfyre at the council... it's one thing to argue about possibilities and theories and another to have to correct you about the relevant facts.

People wouldn't vote for Bloodraven out of love, they would do it out of fear, which is perfectly fitting with what we know of Bloodraven.

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If he wanted to be king, he would've murdered other claimants, not Aenys Blackfyre, or not assemble a great council and take the throne by force, OR, since he was and is a greenseer, he would've taken a claimant's body with his abilities. Similar to what Varamyr tried, who was a skinchanger only. For a greenseer, taking another's body would be a game, to Brynden as well. He could've done it before or after the council as well. Taking Egg's body would've been no challenge to him, nor taking Duncan the Small's.

An all time bad guy Brynden who tried to bec#ome king as well would fit your theory better, I get it, but it really doesn't work.

Aenys Blackfyre was a claiment. Bloodraven murdered him and paraded the head in front of the gathered lords.

I don't think Bloodraven was capable of bodysnatching Egg and living as him, and honestly that sounds way more ridiculous than him being an ambitions bastard.

It's totally cool if you disagree about a theory, it will either be true or not, obviously we can't know at this point or I wouldn't be suggesting it. But having to correct you about the facts makes this an unproductive discussion, let's not continue it.