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Arya's mental illness

Rondo

By Rondo,
in General (ASoIaF)

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Jaenara Belarys Council Member

Jaenara Belarys

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This link @Rondo, @Moiraine Sedai, @Laren Dorr and @Widowmaker 811 keep talking about..and that @Prince of the North, and @Amris and God knows who else keep asking for...I do believe I found it. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfbwx7RAJss&feature=youtu.be&t=3316

What I find entirely amusing is that you don't seem to understand the sarcasm and joking that was behind that statement. And before you say "well, GRRM said it, so it must be true"....if he said that the theoretical cup of water in your hand is orange juice, is it now orange juice just because GRRM said it was so? 

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Prince of the North Council Member

Prince of the North

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Thanks @Jaenara Belarys!  And, sorry (not sorry), I'm not going to watch that entire interview:).  Iirc, what this was about was the claim that Martin said flat out that Arya was "crazy" in an interview.  If so, and if it's referring to the part of the interview when Martin refers to Arya as "psychopathic" (approx. 55 mins.), then, yes, I agree with what it seems to me you are saying above that Martin was being rather cheeky and joking around there.  He was talking about how he spends much of his time, in his words, as the characters in ASOIAF when he's writing them.  I don't believe Martin thinks Arya is crazy or mentally ill.  I'm quite confident his opinion of Arya would be much more nuanced than that.  I also don't believe Martin would ever have much interest in judging Arya outside the context of the setting and story. 

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The Lord of the Crossing Council Member

The Lord of the Crossing

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On 10/31/2021 at 1:50 PM, Chancho said:

Yeah that was what the mention, but it was more like a innocent joke slash martin foreshadowing.

If i have to guess she will die a few feet away from meeting Jon.

They are fated to be together from when the story was first conceived.  Would be nice if there is a twist and they become mates as wolves after they die. 

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Lady Topspin Squire

Lady Topspin

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On 9/26/2021 at 5:16 PM, Rondo said:

Arya Stark is on track to murder a lot of people who opposed her family.  She composed a list of her future knife targets.  She joins a cult of murderers in order to learn their work.  Part of the initiation into this gang involved the murder of an old, insurance vendor.  Which she carried out in cold blood.  She killed a Nightswatch bard named Dareon with her rapier.  Arya is on track to become insane, if she isn't already.  She suffers from a serious mental disorder and kills with little to no guilt.  

Arya and Lyanna are compared by Ned as having the same wolf's blood.  This temperament, being hypersensitive and having quick tempers made them biologically vulnerable to mental illness.  The trauma endured is the catalyst that drove Arya to her mental illness.  The teachings of a cult of people who worshiped the god of death and who delivers death without passion is as unhealthy an education as a person can get.  

Mr. Martin is crafting entertainment.  I have to admit, it would not interest me to read about a ten year old happy child playing with Lego blocks.  We already have that in Tommen.  Arya Stark is his extreme version of a crazed little girl who is suffering from mental illness and insanity.  Ofcourse she is not going to count the hairs on a mule's ass kind of insane.  No way.  That's comedy and not extreme enough.  I do not root for Arya Stark.  I am not a fan of Arya Stark.  But I will admit that I find her chapters a little more interesting now because of her madness.  You don't even get to watch a 10 year old this mentally ill on the television.  

I do not expect a change of character direction for Arya Stark.  She had a chance to pick a different way of living before killing the old insurance vendor.  She instead chose revenge.  Jon's last thoughts before dying was sending her a telepathic message to "stick em with the pointy end." He is telling her to murder Bowen Marsh and the leaders of the Nightswatch.  That can't be good.  She will murder a lot of people when she hears Jon's message and finds him dead.  Karma will come back and put an end to Arya but not until she has killed many.

Some of her future victims do deserve punishment.  Ramsay is without good and deserve punishment.  But there are those who were forced to play the game of power who do not deserve her wrath.  They were just on the opposite side of the playing field.  The ghost of HH saw a bloody future for Arya.  It's clear to me that there will be collateral damage and many innocents will die while Arya goes through with her murderous plan.  

How and who will stop Arya?  Somebody will.  

 

It is not just Arya and Lyanna who have the wolf's blood.  Brandon had it.  Jon has it now.  Brandon attacked his king and the ruling family over his missing sister.  Jon sent the wildlings to take his sister away from Ramsay and was preparing to launch an attack on the people he has vowed to protect.  It is a negative personality trait but does not contribute to Arya's mental illness.  PTSD made her insane.  Supportive care can improve her condition.  She will never be totally well.  She became a villain after killing Dareon.  We should not want a happy ending for Arya. 

 

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TheLastWolf Council Member

TheLastWolf

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2 hours ago, Lady Topspin said:

It is not just Arya and Lyanna who have the wolf's blood.  Brandon had it.  Jon has it now.

Transfusion?

2 hours ago, Lady Topspin said:

  Brandon attacked his king and the ruling family over his missing sister.

Totally unacceptable. If it was my sister who's missing rumored to be raped, I'd be loyal to totally sane king. Yoou too I guess.

 

2 hours ago, Lady Topspin said:

Jon sent the wildlings to take his sister away from Ramsay and was preparing to launch an attack on the people he has vowed to protect.

You feeling lucky punk - Dirty Harry Callaghan IIRC (Clint Eastwood)

That quote has nothing to do with this convo, trust me

2 hours ago, Lady Topspin said:

  It is a negative personality trait but does not contribute to Arya's mental illness.  PTSD made her insane.  Supportive care can improve her condition.  She will never be totally well.  She became a villain after killing Dareon.  We should not want a happy ending for Arya. 

Jon at the Wall influencing- Oh fuck it it's more than I can bear

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Jaenara Belarys Council Member

Jaenara Belarys

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On 11/14/2021 at 3:04 AM, Lady Topspin said:

We should not want a happy ending for Arya. 

May I please ask who you are to tell me to not want a happy ending for some character? 

 

I find it amusing that none of the people claiming that Arya is insane and hold up Martin's quote as proof responded to the refute above. Says something about your evidence. 

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Mystical Council Member

Mystical

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50 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

I find it amusing that none of the people claiming that Arya is insane and hold up Martin's quote as proof responded to the refute above. Says something about your evidence.

Because it doesn't matter. When it comes to characters people stan (whether that's love or hate stanning), reality and facts don't matter. They read whatever they want into the text and then bend over backwards to defend their opinion as 'facts'. If you apply the same standard to the other characters in the story that people apply to Arya in terms of mental illness, 99% of them are more ill than her.

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Nevets Council Member

Nevets

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I'm a bit amazed at the love for Dareon the Deserter.  While I don't condone his murder (in fact, I consider it to be Arya's worst act), I can't get all that upset about it either.  He not only deserted (a capital offense), he betrayed Jon, her brother, and betrayed and abandoned Sam (who she liked) and Aemon.  Not to mention he was an insufferably arrogant prick about the whole affair.  I can certainly understand why she killed him.  And I do not consider killing someone like Dareon to qualify someone as a villain, at least in the absence of anything worse, which has not happened (I place the blame for Insurance Man on the Faceless Men, who ordered and manipulated her into killing him).  If that were the case, he characters of this series would be in large part villains.

While I think her mental health could use some improvement, I do not believe that she is beyond repair.   She is far too comfortable with violence for my liking, but so be it.  That in itself doesn't make her insane, villainous, or even necessarily bad.  I will say that she needs a wake-up call.  She has had it too easy and is in danger of becoming over-confident.  She has been getting by on surprise and good bit of luck.  If she loses that, she is going to get the crap beat out of her.  That could be the best thing that ever happened to her if it happens, since it might cause a reassessment of her actions.

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Moiraine Sedai Council Member

Moiraine Sedai

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18 hours ago, Nevets said:

I'm a bit amazed at the love for Dareon the Deserter.  While I don't condone his murder (in fact, I consider it to be Arya's worst act), I can't get all that upset about it either.  He not only deserted (a capital offense), he betrayed Jon, her brother, and betrayed and abandoned Sam (who she liked) and Aemon.  Not to mention he was an insufferably arrogant prick about the whole affair.  I can certainly understand why she killed him.  And I do not consider killing someone like Dareon to qualify someone as a villain, at least in the absence of anything worse, which has not happened (I place the blame for Insurance Man on the Faceless Men, who ordered and manipulated her into killing him).  If that were the case, he characters of this series would be in large part villains.

While I think her mental health could use some improvement, I do not believe that she is beyond repair.   She is far too comfortable with violence for my liking, but so be it.  That in itself doesn't make her insane, villainous, or even necessarily bad.  I will say that she needs a wake-up call.  She has had it too easy and is in danger of becoming over-confident.  She has been getting by on surprise and good bit of luck.  If she loses that, she is going to get the crap beat out of her.  That could be the best thing that ever happened to her if it happens, since it might cause a reassessment of her actions.

You are way too forgiving of Arya. There is no help for her. Getting the crap beat out of her will only make her meaner and crazier. Anybody who does that better make sure she doesn’t recover. He might otherwise sign his own death certificate.  

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Jaenara Belarys Council Member

Jaenara Belarys

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2 hours ago, Laren Dorr said:

There was supposed to be a love triangle with Jon, Arya, and Tyrion. 

There was supposed to be a love triangle. There isn't anymore, thus you can't bring it up to justify....whatever you're thinking now. 

4 hours ago, Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers said:

Why is this still alive?

Magic, and little posts. Other than that, God knows how. I wish my threads were like this. Been here for over a month. 

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Nathan Stark Council Member

Nathan Stark

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On 10/13/2021 at 5:59 PM, BlackLightning said:

I agree mostly.

But I will mention that people do get categorized/diagnosed as mentally ill or emotionally unstable when they are in high-stress, toxic and dangerous if not uncertain environments. Even when those events have passed.

There is a debate going on as to whether PTSD is a form of mental illness.

 

That's a fair argument, but one that overlooks the fact that basically everybody in Westeros is in a high-stress, toxic, dangerous and uncertain environment. Arya is also far from the only person reacting violently to her reality. The BwB is a testament to the radicalization of the smallfolk, as is the Sparrow movement. Arya's actions are far from abnormal; they are mainstream at this point across much of Westeros. 

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