Arya's mental illness

[Lord Lannister]

On 11/15/2021 at 4:24 PM, Nevets said:

I'm a bit amazed at the love for Dareon the Deserter.  While I don't condone his murder (in fact, I consider it to be Arya's worst act), I can't get all that upset about it either.  He not only deserted (a capital offense), he betrayed Jon, her brother, and betrayed and abandoned Sam (who she liked) and Aemon.  Not to mention he was an insufferably arrogant prick about the whole affair.  I can certainly understand why she killed him.  And I do not consider killing someone like Dareon to qualify someone as a villain, at least in the absence of anything worse, which has not happened (I place the blame for Insurance Man on the Faceless Men, who ordered and manipulated her into killing him).  If that were the case, he characters of this series would be in large part villains.

I honestly don't think Dareon was that bad of a guy. Was he a saint? Most definitely no. He was conscripted into the Night's Watch against his will as punishment for a crime he didn't commit. So I don't blame him for wanting his life back and taking the opportunity when he got the chance. What exactly did he owe to the Night's Watch or the Seven Kingdoms at that point? That said, I agree with you that he was a dick and that it was utterly scummy abandoning Aemon as he did. But Arya killing him was morally questionable. Even leaving aside they weren't in Westeros and isn't her place to act as judge, jury and executioner, executing someone for violating an unjust law isn't just. 

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While I think her mental health could use some improvement, I do not believe that she is beyond repair.   She is far too comfortable with violence for my liking, but so be it.  That in itself doesn't make her insane, villainous, or even necessarily bad.  I will say that she needs a wake-up call.  She has had it too easy and is in danger of becoming over-confident.  She has been getting by on surprise and good bit of luck.  If she loses that, she is going to get the crap beat out of her.  That could be the best thing that ever happened to her if it happens, since it might cause a reassessment of her actions.

I will agree with most of this. Arya has committed several morally questionable acts but she isn't a psychopath or beyond all hope. While I wouldn't call her a "good" person at this point, most of her violence is in some form directed at those who she perceived to have wronged her or her family. Most. Dareon certainly never did anything to her. She just decided that because she's a Stark she was allowed to kill him. So that's a definite step on a morally slippery slope and it could take her to a bad place. Or she might regain her footing as she grows and matures, we can't really say yet. 

[TheLastWolf]

11 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

I'm offended. Truly, I'm hurt. 

Me reacting 'lol' to your post was to eliminate any chance of that and convey that it was meant in a lighter vein, c'mon!

I'm really sorry 

[TheLastWolf]

8 hours ago, Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers said:

Why is this still alive?

Join the club of wonderers! 

[SeanF]

4 hours ago, Nathan Stark said:

That's a fair argument, but one that overlooks the fact that basically everybody in Westeros is in a high-stress, toxic, dangerous and uncertain environment. Arya is also far from the only person reacting violently to her reality. The BwB is a testament to the radicalization of the smallfolk, as is the Sparrow movement. Arya's actions are far from abnormal; they are mainstream at this point across much of Westeros. 

Very much the point.

These are not middle class folks, living in a prosperous liberal democracy, going on a murder spree.

[Jaenara Belarys]

9 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

I'm really sorry 

Oh, I know it was a joke. I'm simply being sarcastic. No need to apologize. 

[TheLastWolf]

1 hour ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Oh, I know it was a joke. I'm simply being sarcastic. No need to apologize. 

With you, one can never tell   

[The Commentator]

13 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

I honestly don't think Dareon was that bad of a guy. Was he a saint? Most definitely no. He was conscripted into the Night's Watch against his will as punishment for a crime he didn't commit. So I don't blame him for wanting his life back and taking the opportunity when he got the chance. What exactly did he owe to the Night's Watch or the Seven Kingdoms at that point? That said, I agree with you that he was a dick and that it was utterly scummy abandoning Aemon as he did. But Arya killing him was morally questionable. Even leaving aside they weren't in Westeros and isn't her place to act as judge, jury and executioner, executing someone for violating an unjust law isn't just. 

I will agree with most of this. Arya has committed several morally questionable acts but she isn't a psychopath or beyond all hope. While I wouldn't call her a "good" person at this point, most of her violence is in some form directed at those who she perceived to have wronged her or her family. Most. Dareon certainly never did anything to her. She just decided that because she's a Stark she was allowed to kill him. So that's a definite step on a morally slippery slope and it could take her to a bad place. Or she might regain her footing as she grows and matures, we can't really say yet. 

What Arya did to Dareon and the Insurance seller was immoral, evil. They were unprovoked murders. Calling it “questionable” is making light of it.  While they were acts of unprovoked violence and murder, iArya’s insanity means she may not be held accountable. But somebody still needs to stop her. Arya is not redeemable. She’s lost. 

[Jaenara Belarys]

1 hour ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

What Arya did to Dareon and the Insurance seller was immoral, evil. They were unprovoked murders. Calling it “questionable” is making light of it.  While they were acts of unprovoked violence and murder, iArya’s insanity means she may not be held accountable. But somebody still needs to stop her. Arya is not redeemable. She’s lost. 

Do you have proof of this claim? Text evidence of her "insanity", besides that which we already know? I would think an insane person would show signs all throughout her POV, and y'all seem to be experts on insanity. 

4 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

  

 

[Rara Avis]

Yes, please show where she shows clear signs of delusions and distorted perception of reality. An example of insane person would be, say, a man I've read about in a book about schizofrenia, who poisoned his beloved daughter thinking that stuff he poured into her food would save her from aliens. He thought he was protecting her.  

Anyway, I think those who believe that only insane or psychopathic people are capable of killing or getting used to killing others live in a la-la land. The amount of war crimes far outweights number of clinically insane or psychopathic people who are an extreme minority. At least Arya isn't out there raping women and throwing kids on spikes - all the actions of "normal" people under the guise of shared responsibility. 

We're not a naturally nice species. Humans are parochially altruistic - we naturally divide people into "our" group and successfully "other" the rest. Giving empathy to people "like us", and zero to others. Of course, there will be always people who are cut above others in empathy (like Jon), and below that line.

What's tragic about Arya is that she used to belong to first group, and she still feels for people, clearly, but yes, she's on a dark path currently, getting too comfortable with killing. I feel like it's natural in her circumstance but disturbing none the less. She's hurt and angry person with murderous skills, being manipulated by death cult - potential for bad things to happen is high. 

One doesn't have to agree with all her actions not to see her as insane or evil, it's not a dichotomy. Most characters do things I disagree with, and in the fucked up Westeros of now most people have to make unpleasant choices or die. 

[TheLastWolf]

4 hours ago, Rara Avis said:

We're not a naturally nice species. Humans are parochially altruistic - we naturally divide people into "our" group and successfully "other" the rest. Giving empathy to people "like us", and zero to others. Of course, there will be always people who are cut above others in empathy (like Jon), and below that line.

Not so subtle from George, since the enigmatic hostile alien species in ASOIAF are named...the Others. 

Us and them perspective trait in homo sapiens singularly responsible for 98% of unnecessary conflicts with other homo sapiens the environment and possibly ETs if we encounter them

[Rondo]

I see some of you are being naughty and trying hard to get off-topic.  Just to remind you of what my topic is.  Please, read my original post:

On 9/26/2021 at 5:16 PM, Rondo said:

Arya Stark is on track to murder a lot of people who opposed her family.  She composed a list of her future knife targets.  She joins a cult of murderers in order to learn their work.  Part of the initiation into this gang involved the murder of an old, insurance vendor.  Which she carried out in cold blood.  She killed a Nightswatch bard named Dareon with her rapier.  Arya is on track to become insane, if she isn't already.  She suffers from a serious mental disorder and kills with little to no guilt.  

Arya and Lyanna are compared by Ned as having the same wolf's blood.  This temperament, being hypersensitive and having quick tempers made them biologically vulnerable to mental illness.  The trauma endured is the catalyst that drove Arya to her mental illness.  The teachings of a cult of people who worshiped the god of death and who delivers death without passion is as unhealthy an education as a person can get.  

Mr. Martin is crafting entertainment.  I have to admit, it would not interest me to read about a ten year old happy child playing with Lego blocks.  We already have that in Tommen.  Arya Stark is his extreme version of a crazed little girl who is suffering from mental illness and insanity.  Ofcourse she is not going to count the hairs on a mule's ass kind of insane.  No way.  That's comedy and not extreme enough.  I do not root for Arya Stark.  I am not a fan of Arya Stark.  But I will admit that I find her chapters a little more interesting now because of her madness.  You don't even get to watch a 10 year old this mentally ill on the television.  

I do not expect a change of character direction for Arya Stark.  She had a chance to pick a different way of living before killing the old insurance vendor.  She instead chose revenge.  Jon's last thoughts before dying was sending her a telepathic message to "stick em with the pointy end." He is telling her to murder Bowen Marsh and the leaders of the Nightswatch.  That can't be good.  She will murder a lot of people when she hears Jon's message and finds him dead.  Karma will come back and put an end to Arya but not until she has killed many.

Some of her future victims do deserve punishment.  Ramsay is without good and deserve punishment.  But there are those who were forced to play the game of power who do not deserve her wrath.  They were just on the opposite side of the playing field.  The ghost of HH saw a bloody future for Arya.  It's clear to me that there will be collateral damage and many innocents will die while Arya goes through with her murderous plan.  

How and who will stop Arya?  Somebody will.  

 

 

[TheLastWolf]

1 hour ago, Rondo said:

I see some of you are being naughty and trying hard to get off-topic. 

Nothing to try, it never really took off, since this is Thread #973 about bashing the Starks, or more specifically number #396 Arya psycho rant. Surprised the Freys/Boltons haven't been made saints (again) yet

1 hour ago, Rondo said:

Just to remind you of what my topic is.  Please, read my original post:

That's called bumping the OP. Next time think of a better excuse so we all pretend to believe and have fun

[Jaenara Belarys]

10 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Nothing to try, it never really took off, since this is Thread #973 about bashing the Starks, or more specifically number #396 Arya psycho rant. Surprised the Freys/Boltons haven't been made saints (again) yet

12 hours ago, Rondo said:

I shouldn't be surprised you count the amount of hate threads, I suppose . 

12 hours ago, Rondo said:

I see some of you are being naughty and trying hard to get off-topic.  Just to remind you of what my topic is.  Please, read my original post:

On 9/26/2021 at 2:16 PM, Rondo said:

This thread hasn't been on topic since about the, oh 3-6 page. Most of this is y'all saying Arya is insane, and then not providing proof (see my post above, with the beer clinking). 

[Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers]

12 hours ago, Rondo said:

I see some of you are being naughty and trying hard to get off-topic.  Just to remind you of what my topic is.  Please, read my original post:

 

how about we just archive this topic for being super off-topic? That sounds like a good idea.

[Jaenara Belarys]

11 minutes ago, Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers said:

how about we just archive this topic for being super off-topic? That sounds like a good idea.

NO, NO, NO, NO, I like this thread. It's entertaining. 

[Willam Stark]

12 hours ago, Rondo said:

I see some of you are being naughty and trying hard to get off-topic.  Just to remind you of what my topic is.  Please, read my original post:

How about providing us some evidence to begin with? Something other than "she's killing people that's not right".

This thread is just a laughable joke, as the others.

[Jaenara Belarys]

Just now, Willam Stark said:

How about providing us some evidence to begin with? Something other than "she's killing people that's not right".

 

Yes, well, they've been talking about corrupted souls and when a conversation reaches corrupted souls, then no evidence is provided. Elementary, my dear Watson. 

1 minute ago, Willam Stark said:

This thread is just a laughable joke, as the others.

It's entertaining, though, wouldn't you agree?

[Willam Stark]

5 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

It's entertaining, though, wouldn't you agree?

When you don't take their replies seriously, it's kinda funny, yeah.

[Jaenara Belarys]

Just now, Willam Stark said:

When you don't take their replies seriously, it's kinda funny, yeah.

It's hard to take it seriously when there's no proof and the posts all follow the same format (there must be a handbook on how they write their threads, because it all seems like the same person writing). 

[Lord Lannister]

12 hours ago, Rondo said:

I see some of you are being naughty and trying hard to get off-topic.  Just to remind you of what my topic is.  Please, read my original post:

 

It's hardly "off-topic" to discuss if the premise behind the OP has any supporting evidence. You may as well say, I don't want anyone who disagrees with me to post here.