Arya's mental illness

[TheLastWolf]

14 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

I shouldn't be surprised you count the amount of hate threads, I suppose . 

Ok, I hope you are being sarcastic this time coz I can't really believe you believe that i count these crap (for lack of a better word)

13 hours ago, Willam Stark said:

When you don't take their replies seriously, it's kinda funny, yeah.

That means always here

13 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

there must be a handbook on how they write their threads, because it all seems like the same person writing). 

Back when @Alyn Oakenfist was active before he got ...umm... penalized (miss him) we had a pet forum theory about how all these multiple accounts (were in fact just one or two members with multiple accounts) spouting either ValyARYAN racist propaganda (fairy godmother dragon queen praised to the heavens) or extreme Stark/North misogyny. Not to forget the noble Boltons and honorable Freys.

In the end it was allegedly Alyn with an alias, but you never know. Maybe they hired Illuminati to implicate him, or he went cuckoo like I do sometimes

[TheLastWolf]

Ok, goodbye for real this time. exit postponed due to floods here (not joking), exceeded self imposed limit of few last posts by 2/3 dozen. Never mind, adios.

Spoiler

This thread won't suffer because of my unrelated post I hope 

*wave*

[Jaenara Belarys]

On 11/20/2021 at 2:16 AM, TheLastWolf said:

Ok, goodbye for real this time. exit postponed due to floods here (not joking), exceeded self imposed limit of few last posts by 2/3 dozen. Never mind, adios.

 

We bid you a good day, and hope that you come back soon. 

On 11/19/2021 at 11:21 PM, TheLastWolf said:

Ok, I hope you are being sarcastic this time coz I can't really believe you believe that i count these crap (for lack of a better word)

On 11/19/2021 at 9:30 AM, Willam Stark said:

*In TheLastWolf's head: Beep, Boop, Beep. Hippocampus, log Stark Hate Thread #372. 

[Jaenara Belarys]

@Rondo, @Widowmaker 811, @Moiraine Sedai, @Frosted Lucky Charms, please do provide a little bit of evidence. (No, saying she's evil over and over doesn't count, pointing to Dareon and the Insurance Man don't count. If Arya was as insane as you say she is, she'd be showing those signs, and since y'all seem to be experts on insanity I don't think it'd be that hard for you, wouldn't it?). 

 

TL;DR, show us where she's insane, as we've been asking for the last few pages. 

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

I wouldn't say that Arya is fully insane, but it's clear that she's not fully sane anymore either and most certainely has a case of PTSD due to all the horrors and traumatic moments she witnessed especially with what happened to her family at the Red Wedding, and with her violent, unhinged and often murderous streak though the fact that she managed to keep a sense of justice and compassion, as well as the FM training (ironically) and several positive meetings certainely prevented her from falling beyond the point of no return. 

[Haus Berlin]

Some mental illnesses seem to root in coping strategies which won’t serve for a lifetime.

 

Arya as we get to know her shows a strong tendency towards adaption (don’t forget as a small child she feels like Jon: not fitting into the Tully phenotype), which she transformes into martial art under Syrio‘s influence. Terrors she witnessed pushed that ability more towards dissociation and the artist slowly turns into a tool. Will it stop there? Where would be the fun in that? Aria, no Arya, seems to live her Jacob L. Moreno psychodrama for the world (which is a stage -  or was it the other way around?) to see and wouldn’t be the first person to gain a grip on herself by being someone else. She could be fine in the end, but maybe some of us won’t applaud given how she achieved it. It’s an art though, to survive.

[Haus Berlin]

To add a thought:

 

Arya‘s motivation to return to Westeros and to her home possibly isn’t bad at all, like seeking revenge, crossing off her list etc. - simply because she distanced from that former self.

Arya now is in that state.

 

But once she hears that in Westeros there is an Arya Stark suffering at the hands of other northerners she might decide that she better replaces that girl. Especially when also in the North this Arya is wed to a bastard (Jon? Ramsey!), who claims to be king in the north and to rule Winterfell (Ramsey? Jon!).

[Rondo]

On 11/23/2021 at 12:23 PM, Jaenara Belarys said:

@Rondo, @Widowmaker 811, @Moiraine Sedai, @Frosted Lucky Charms, please do provide a little bit of evidence. (No, saying she's evil over and over doesn't count, pointing to Dareon and the Insurance Man don't count. If Arya was as insane as you say she is, she'd be showing those signs, and since y'all seem to be experts on insanity I don't think it'd be that hard for you, wouldn't it?). 

 

TL;DR, show us where she's insane, as we've been asking for the last few pages. 

The evidence are the things Arya does.  She joins up with a cult of killers who worships the bringing of death to people and kills people as its purpose for existence.  She murders an old business man who was no threat to her.  She can't claim self-defense for poisoning him.  It's followed by murdering a bard who has done no harm to her person.  I'd say that's evidence of Arya's insanity.  I am not going to be able to convince you b/c you are determined to defend Arya.  I know you will continue to defend Arya just as I will continue to criticize Arya.  We shall continue to be in disagreement on a number of other issues as well but can do so with civility.  The only civil way to disagree is respectfully.  

 

[Jaenara Belarys]

RIP, Arya's Mental Illness thread 2021. September 2021-November 2021. We shall never see their like again. 

[The Commentator]

1 hour ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

RIP, Arya's Mental Illness thread 2021. September 2021-November 2021. We shall never see their like again. 

We will. All of the story characters get bashed from time to time. Arya has a lot about her to dislike.  I don’t have a positive opinion of Arya, Jaime, Sansa, and Jon. There will be times when I will express that opinion. I am preparing to write a criticism of Bran and Stannis at the moment. 

[Jaenara Belarys]

20 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

We will. All of the story characters get bashed from time to time. Arya has a lot about her to dislike.  I don’t have a positive opinion of Arya, Jaime, Sansa, and Jon. There will be times when I will express that opinion. I am preparing to write a criticism of Bran and Stannis at the moment. 

I'm talking about the thread, not the characters. Besides, will your thread be as successful as thirteen pages over two months? 

[The Commentator]

12 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

I'm talking about the thread, not the characters. Besides, will your thread be as successful as thirteen pages over two months? 

Mine? I am not believing so. Bran is not as controversial but it will encourage a deep dive into his personality.  He’s the Annikin equivalent.  

[Light a wight tonight]

Arya is Nemesis wearing a mortal body. As such she is not to be judged.

[Rondo]

12 hours ago, Light a wight tonight said:

Arya is Nemesis wearing a mortal body. As such she is not to be judged.

She has been judged.  I have judged her mentally unbalanced and suffering from mental illness.

[the trees have eyes]

What Arya wants is to go home to her family and for everything to be like it was before.  Up until The Red Wedding she was focused on this goal to the extent it was achievable (asking Beric if he could bring back a dead man who didn't have his head was one of the more poignant scenes).  Given, post-Red Wedding, she knows this can't happen she wants justice for her family and friends and a safe place to work out what to do and how to do it.  This has taken on an obviously dark sheen of vengeance and has shaded towards professional assassination with her apprenticeship to The Faceless Men.

But why would this be seen as madness?  It's dark for sure and I hope she won't be consumed by it but to some extent she is acting as a protector of the weak or avenger of the wronged.  Killing the insurance salesman is an uncomfortable act but that is how she rationalises it.  She is unquestionably desensitised to violence and regards taking a life as justified if expediency requires it: the stableboy in Kings Landing is the first, Lorch's men attacking the NW recruits in the holdfast follow, Jacqen's three lives and the weasel soup, the Bolton Guard at Harrenhall (Hot Pie is shocked, Gendry understands the need for it), The Tickler and the Squire at the Inn, Daeron for deserting the NW, and then the insurance salesman.

Even if she does become an assassin this does not imply madness, merely that she has lost the sense that human life has value and that taking it unless in need or without good reason is a taboo.  That's actually a pretty common state of affairs in Westeros but it's seen as being bad not mad.  Or entirely calculated and intentional as a tactic in warfare.  In any case her agenda is not that of the Faceles Men and she is only here out of lack of options.  If she finds that the Faceless Men take contracts from anyone - to assassinate someone she sees as just or good at the behest of someone she sees as an exploiter or oppressor - I imagine she'll reconsider her relationship with them.

I also feel the abandonment of the five year gap hinders assessment of her actions and that it's the incongruity of seeing a child, and a girl too, act as a killer, that makes it hard to assess her.  For example, does anyone consider Beatrice Kiddo (Kill Bill) mad or perfectly entitled to (fictionally!) seek bloodthirsty vengeance on those who betrayed her and destroyed her family?

[Jaenara Belarys]

Please die, thread......we need a new rant to do. 

[Light a wight tonight]

8 hours ago, Rondo said:

She has been judged.  I have judged her mentally unbalanced and suffering from mental illness.

But she's Mrs. GRRM's favorite character, so you are outvoted. 

[Lord Lannister]

On 11/29/2021 at 11:20 AM, Jaenara Belarys said:

RIP, Arya's Mental Illness thread 2021. September 2021-November 2021. We shall never see their like again. 

What is dead may never die, but rises again flamier and trollier.

[Light a wight tonight]

On 11/29/2021 at 11:45 AM, Widowmaker 811 said:

Mine? I am not believing so. Bran is not as controversial but it will encourage a deep dive into his personality.  He’s the Annikin equivalent.  

How can you say that Bran is not controversial? He wargs Hodor, which is one of the worst deeds imaginable, and does it for sport (after the first time, when it was a dire necessity).

[Prince of the North]

35 minutes ago, Light a wight tonight said:

How can you say that Bran is not controversial? He wargs Hodor, which is one of the worst deeds imaginable, and does it for sport (after the first time, when it was a dire necessity).

Agreed.  Love that GRRM!  He doesn't seem to write many black or white characters (at least not in ASoIaF - I can't speak to much of his other writings).  But he surely loves every shade of gray there is