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Rondo

Arya's mental illness

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Arya Stark is on track to murder a lot of people who opposed her family.  She composed a list of her future knife targets.  She joins a cult of murderers in order to learn their work.  Part of the initiation into this gang involved the murder of an old, insurance vendor.  Which she carried out in cold blood.  She killed a Nightswatch bard named Dareon with her rapier.  Arya is on track to become insane, if she isn't already.  She suffers from a serious mental disorder and kills with little to no guilt.  

Arya and Lyanna are compared by Ned as having the same wolf's blood.  This temperament, being hypersensitive and having quick tempers made them biologically vulnerable to mental illness.  The trauma endured is the catalyst that drove Arya to her mental illness.  The teachings of a cult of people who worshiped the god of death and who delivers death without passion is as unhealthy an education as a person can get.  

Mr. Martin is crafting entertainment.  I have to admit, it would not interest me to read about a ten year old happy child playing with Lego blocks.  We already have that in Tommen.  Arya Stark is his extreme version of a crazed little girl who is suffering from mental illness and insanity.  Ofcourse she is not going to count the hairs on a mule's ass kind of insane.  No way.  That's comedy and not extreme enough.  I do not root for Arya Stark.  I am not a fan of Arya Stark.  But I will admit that I find her chapters a little more interesting now because of her madness.  You don't even get to watch a 10 year old this mentally ill on the television.  

I do not expect a change of character direction for Arya Stark.  She had a chance to pick a different way of living before killing the old insurance vendor.  She instead chose revenge.  Jon's last thoughts before dying was sending her a telepathic message to "stick em with the pointy end." He is telling her to murder Bowen Marsh and the leaders of the Nightswatch.  That can't be good.  She will murder a lot of people when she hears Jon's message and finds him dead.  Karma will come back and put an end to Arya but not until she has killed many.

Some of her future victims do deserve punishment.  Ramsay is without good and deserve punishment.  But there are those who were forced to play the game of power who do not deserve her wrath.  They were just on the opposite side of the playing field.  The ghost of HH saw a bloody future for Arya.  It's clear to me that there will be collateral damage and many innocents will die while Arya goes through with her murderous plan.  

How and who will stop Arya?  Somebody will.  

 

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I have so many differences with this I don't know where to begin.  I will say that I do believe that she is very troubled and traumatized by her wartime experiences, and this has led to actions that are, at best, questionable.  I do not like the idea of a young girl killing people who aren't a threat. However, given GRRMs expressed liking for the character, I don't expect her to go over the edge.  But I do expect her to get closer than I would like.  Her association with the Faceless Men isn't helping things at this point, either.

Her list is more of a prayer list than a hit list.  "Stranger, please take these guys into your arms."  She has yet to seek any of them out, and actually removed one of them from the list (The Hound).   And the list is getting quite short.  The only one I can see her running into is Ilyn Payne, who really doesn't belong on it.  If she does try to kill him, I expect him to see her coming and curb-stomp her.  

The most likely person to prevent Arya from continuing to murder people is - Arya Stark.  She has to make the decision to stop.  One likely catalyst would be the realization that someone she has killed, or tried to, didn't really deserve it.  She does still have a conscience and a moral compass, albeit a somewhat wobbly one.  Or someone she respects, or has grown to respect, could influence her.  Pretty sure something will happen, though.

A few notes on the OP.  With respect to the insurance broker, the alternatives they offered were of no real interest to her, and I think the Faceless Men knew this perfectly well.  They are, I believe, master manipulators, and, as a child, she is more susceptible to that sort of thing than an adult would be.  Also, they had to pressure her pretty hard to get her to willing to do it.  Essentially, she had to be convinced that he was a serious wrongdoer.  She hasn't killed anyone she doesn't believe guilty of wrongdoing, nor do I think she will.

I happen to like Arya.  She is one of my favorites.  I will admit, though, to not liking her current trajectory, and she is probably the only character on my favorites list that I can imagine falling off it.  I remain an optimist, however, and expect that she will veer off her path before she goes over the edge.   By the way, I don't think she is insane, but she does have clear mental health issues, or would if she were real.  One reason for my optimism is that GRRM is in total control of her fate, and I have faith that he won't send her over the edge.

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38 minutes ago, Rondo said:

How and who will stop Arya?  Somebody will. 

Surely don´t hope so.

Arya is not mentally ill, she is just adapting to a world full of injustice where the strong take what they want, no matter the consequences. The insurance guy is her only kill that is hard to justify and even here Arya thinks that he looks like a cold-hearted person and the contract to kill him is probably justified.

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1 hour ago, PrettyLittlePsycho said:

Surely don´t hope so.

Arya is not mentally ill, she is just adapting to a world full of injustice where the strong take what they want, no matter the consequences. The insurance guy is her only kill that is hard to justify and even here Arya thinks that he looks like a cold-hearted person and the contract to kill him is probably justified.

She is mentally ill.  It is a world full of injustice but you rarely see kids like Arya.  You rarely see adults as bad as Arya.  

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1 hour ago, Nevets said:

I have so many differences with this I don't know where to begin.  I will say that I do believe that she is very troubled and traumatized by her wartime experiences, and this has led to actions that are, at best, questionable.  I do not like the idea of a young girl killing people who aren't a threat. However, given GRRMs expressed liking for the character, I don't expect her to go over the edge.  But I do expect her to get closer than I would like.  Her association with the Faceless Men isn't helping things at this point, either.

Her list is more of a prayer list than a hit list.  "Stranger, please take these guys into your arms."  She has yet to seek any of them out, and actually removed one of them from the list (The Hound).   And the list is getting quite short.  The only one I can see her running into is Ilyn Payne, who really doesn't belong on it.  If she does try to kill him, I expect him to see her coming and curb-stomp her.  

The most likely person to prevent Arya from continuing to murder people is - Arya Stark.  She has to make the decision to stop.  One likely catalyst would be the realization that someone she has killed, or tried to, didn't really deserve it.  She does still have a conscience and a moral compass, albeit a somewhat wobbly one.  Or someone she respects, or has grown to respect, could influence her.  Pretty sure something will happen, though.

A few notes on the OP.  With respect to the insurance broker, the alternatives they offered were of no real interest to her, and I think the Faceless Men knew this perfectly well.  They are, I believe, master manipulators, and, as a child, she is more susceptible to that sort of thing than an adult would be.  Also, they had to pressure her pretty hard to get her to willing to do it.  Essentially, she had to be convinced that he was a serious wrongdoer.  She hasn't killed anyone she doesn't believe guilty of wrongdoing, nor do I think she will.

I happen to like Arya.  She is one of my favorites.  I will admit, though, to not liking her current trajectory, and she is probably the only character on my favorites list that I can imagine falling off it.  I remain an optimist, however, and expect that she will veer off her path before she goes over the edge.   By the way, I don't think she is insane, but she does have clear mental health issues, or would if she were real.  One reason for my optimism is that GRRM is in total control of her fate, and I have faith that he won't send her over the edge.

I thank you for your interest in my topic.  Though it is obvious the difference between our opinions of Arya are indeed very wide.  We are very, very far apart.  

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20 minutes ago, Rondo said:

I thank you for your interest in my topic.  Though it is obvious the difference between our opinions of Arya are indeed very wide.  We are very, very far apart.  

So far apart that Arya would kill you, watch your back. :P:D

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8 minutes ago, PrettyLittlePsycho said:

So far apart that Arya would kill you, watch your back. :P:D

No, she wouldn't.  She only kills people who harm those she cares about.  Talk shit to, or about her, she doesn't care.  Rorge talked all sorts of crap to her and she shrugged it off.

And yes, I know you're only joking.  I hope. 

Edited by Nevets

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10 hours ago, PrettyLittlePsycho said:

So far apart that Arya would kill you, watch your back. :P:D

I do.  Whenever I'm on this page.  :D

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11 hours ago, Nevets said:

No, she wouldn't.  She only kills people who harm those she cares about.  Talk shit to, or about her, she doesn't care.  Rorge talked all sorts of crap to her and she shrugged it off.

And yes, I know you're only joking.  I hope. 

Um remember daeron the innocent man Arya murdered in cold blood. Also there was a guardsman she killed I don't remember where though. 

3 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Arya has been profoundly traumatised by her experiences.  But, she is neither mad nor inherently bad.  She simply finds herself in a bad place, like Ciri in The Witcher.

She does have streaks of madness though, She showed depression in acok. 

 

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22 minutes ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

Um remember daeron the innocent man Arya murdered in cold blood. Also there was a guardsman she killed I don't remember where though. 

She does have streaks of madness though, She showed depression in acok. 

 

The Guardsman was killed, because she had to escape Harrenhall.  I'd view that as moral self-defence. I don't think she had any real justification for killing Daeron.  Daeron is a shit, but he's not under Arya's jurisdiction.

Arya has every reason to be experiencing depression.  That's normal when you've experienced what she has.

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Arya is a very rabid wolf who has gone insane. All she really lives for is revenge. Somebody will kill her. It will be a repeat of Ned’s ending. Ned killed a man of the watch who had lost his mind. Arya killed an innocent man who was sent to the wall. Neither Arya nor Ned took the time to learn of the men’s history. In the end, Ned got the same treatment. Arya will die on the end of a blade. 

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On 9/26/2021 at 5:16 PM, Rondo said:

How and who will stop Arya?  Somebody will.  

Big Walder Frey.  The most appropriate death for Arya is by the hand/sword of Big Walder Frey after she assassinates the patriarch of House Frey. 

22 hours ago, Nevets said:

No, she wouldn't.  She only kills people who harm those she cares about.  Talk shit to, or about her, she doesn't care.  Rorge talked all sorts of crap to her and she shrugged it off.

And yes, I know you're only joking.  I hope. 

That's not true.  The old man had done her no harm.  He was just a businessman who were underwriting risks.  He was not connected to the Freys and he had done nothing to hurt Arya's people.  She's thirsty for blood and she killed an innocent person to get the next victim.

10 hours ago, SeanF said:

The Guardsman was killed, because she had to escape Harrenhall.  I'd view that as moral self-defence. I don't think she had any real justification for killing Daeron.  Daeron is a shit, but he's not under Arya's jurisdiction.

Arya has every reason to be experiencing depression.  That's normal when you've experienced what she has.

Depression!  Are you serious!  I mean no disrespect to your post but you are covering Arya's 'evil' with a thick coat of sugar and chocolate. :angry:  Peanut M&M everyone.  Arya being the nut inside the candy.  Hahaha   Only kidding  :)  TBH, I don't know if you can classify a moderately insane person as evil.  Which Arya is.  She is moderately insane.  Can you honestly say whether Arya still knows right from wrong?  Her wiring is sooo very crossed up now. 

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1 hour ago, Damsel in Distress said:

That's not true.  The old man had done her no harm.  He was just a businessman who were underwriting risks.  He was not connected to the Freys and he had done nothing to hurt Arya's people.  She's thirsty for blood and she killed an innocent person to get the next victim

It seems I wasn't as clear as I should have been.  She doesn't kill people simply because they say mean stuff.  In the case of the insurance broker, she was told to, felt that she had no real choice (the alternatives presented to her held no appeal, which I think the FM knew perfectly well), and let herself be led to believe that he was guilty of wrongdoing (in this case, cheating ordinary people, the kind she cares about).  I think she was wrong to do it, but I also believe that the FM was manipulating her and testing her to see how she would react.  Her questioning about his actions may be the reason she appears to be on the slow track at this point.  My guess is that if Arya hadn't done it, he would be dead in any case.  Unless he isn't really dead, which is a thought I sometimes have in my weirder moments.

Edited by Nevets

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1 hour ago, Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe said:

Someone will chop off her manhood and feed it to a goat

You know at the end of the day Gregor Clegane's the only one who actually bothered to sit down and feed the damn goat. whose the real monster?

5 hours ago, Nevets said:

let herself be led to believe that he was guilty of wrongdoing (in this case, cheating ordinary people, the kind she cares about).  I think she was wrong to do it, but I also believe that the FM was manipulating her and testing her to see how she would react.  Her questioning about his actions may be the reason she appears to be on the slow track at this point.

I hadn't considered that aspect before, but yeah, she really did seem to try to moralize it in her mind. No wonder the faceless men don't think she will be able to become one of them. A highborn girl schooled in religion (loosely at least), daughter of the embodiment of law in the north, the warden of the north. she's internalized too much. It's probably much easier to teach former slaves to be such psudo-nihilist killers who worship only death, comparably at least.

Edited by Targaryeninkingslanding

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On 9/26/2021 at 5:16 PM, Rondo said:

Arya Stark is on track to murder a lot of people who opposed her family.  She composed a list of her future knife targets.  She joins a cult of murderers in order to learn their work.  Part of the initiation into this gang involved the murder of an old, insurance vendor.  Which she carried out in cold blood.  She killed a Nightswatch bard named Dareon with her rapier.  Arya is on track to become insane, if she isn't already.  She suffers from a serious mental disorder and kills with little to no guilt.  

Arya and Lyanna are compared by Ned as having the same wolf's blood.  This temperament, being hypersensitive and having quick tempers made them biologically vulnerable to mental illness.  The trauma endured is the catalyst that drove Arya to her mental illness.  The teachings of a cult of people who worshiped the god of death and who delivers death without passion is as unhealthy an education as a person can get.  

Mr. Martin is crafting entertainment.  I have to admit, it would not interest me to read about a ten year old happy child playing with Lego blocks.  We already have that in Tommen.  Arya Stark is his extreme version of a crazed little girl who is suffering from mental illness and insanity.  Ofcourse she is not going to count the hairs on a mule's ass kind of insane.  No way.  That's comedy and not extreme enough.  I do not root for Arya Stark.  I am not a fan of Arya Stark.  But I will admit that I find her chapters a little more interesting now because of her madness.  You don't even get to watch a 10 year old this mentally ill on the television.  

I do not expect a change of character direction for Arya Stark.  She had a chance to pick a different way of living before killing the old insurance vendor.  She instead chose revenge.  Jon's last thoughts before dying was sending her a telepathic message to "stick em with the pointy end." He is telling her to murder Bowen Marsh and the leaders of the Nightswatch.  That can't be good.  She will murder a lot of people when she hears Jon's message and finds him dead.  Karma will come back and put an end to Arya but not until she has killed many.

Some of her future victims do deserve punishment.  Ramsay is without good and deserve punishment.  But there are those who were forced to play the game of power who do not deserve her wrath.  They were just on the opposite side of the playing field.  The ghost of HH saw a bloody future for Arya.  It's clear to me that there will be collateral damage and many innocents will die while Arya goes through with her murderous plan.  

How and who will stop Arya?  Somebody will.  

 

Arya will die by violence.  She has chosen and lived a life of violence and it is only proper for her to end that way.  One of her marks will turn the tables on her. 

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9 hours ago, Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe said:

Someone will chop off her manhood and feed it to a goat

I'd rather for Arya to die by dragon flame.  But the irony will be greater if she were to die from a faceless man. 

Edited by The Lord of the Crossing

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13 hours ago, Damsel in Distress said:

Big Walder Frey.  The most appropriate death for Arya is by the hand/sword of Big Walder Frey after she assassinates the patriarch of House Frey. 

That's not true.  The old man had done her no harm.  He was just a businessman who were underwriting risks.  He was not connected to the Freys and he had done nothing to hurt Arya's people.  She's thirsty for blood and she killed an innocent person to get the next victim.

Depression!  Are you serious!  I mean no disrespect to your post but you are covering Arya's 'evil' with a thick coat of sugar and chocolate. :angry:  Peanut M&M everyone.  Arya being the nut inside the candy.  Hahaha   Only kidding  :)  TBH, I don't know if you can classify a moderately insane person as evil.  Which Arya is.  She is moderately insane.  Can you honestly say whether Arya still knows right from wrong?  Her wiring is sooo very crossed up now. 

The poster to whom I responded raised the issue of depression.  Arya is not evil.

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