Arya's mental illness

[Rondo]

8 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

I doubt nothing is going to happen to her, considering that GRRM isn't Dumber and Dogshit (no one can survive that many stabs in that location, it reeks of 1000+ plot armor). 

Arya has some plot armor.  But you do agree that she should be imprisoned to stop her from murdering more people.  The murders of the insurance agent and Dareon were bad enough.  I know you don't agree with me when I say Arya is insane.  We disagree on that matter.  But you do at least agree that Arya Stark should be incarcerated to stop her from killing those who do not deserve death.  

Listen here @Jaenara Belaerys . If the only people Arya will kill are Cersei and the people who were directly responsible for the demise of the Starks, yes, I could accept it. Westeros is big enough to accommodate a crazy person walking around freely.  Something to scare the children with.   But I think you know there will be innocents who will die because of Arya's determination to get justice (What she thinks is justice, mind you. Not what is actual justice!) for her parents and brothers.  She is and will be passing these death sentences based on incomplete data.  Rickon and Bran are not dead.  Jon committed a serious crime at the wall.  Theon deserves to die for his crimes but not for the ones she will want to kill him for.  Bowen Marsh and his men do not deserve to be killed because it was Jon who was wrong.  

I read a lot of your writings and you seem fair on most matters.  I am asking you to consider.  I know we will never agree on Arya's mental condition.  But a fair person would know that the murders of the insurance seller and Dareon were wrong.  

[Jaenara Belarys]

Just now, Rondo said:

I read a lot of your writings and you seem fair on most matters.  I am asking you to consider.  I know we will never agree on Arya's mental condition.  But a fair person would know that the murders of the insurance seller and Dareon were wrong.  

I do agree that she shouldn't have touched Dareon or the insurance man (but especially Dareon, she is after all in Braavos, not Westeros) but I'm not sure how she's supposed to tell the FM that she won't kill the insurance man without getting in big trouble. They were willing to kick her out for asking for her eyes back, after all. 

4 minutes ago, Rondo said:

Something to scare the children with.   But I think you know there will be innocents who will die because of Arya's determination to get justice (What she thinks is justice, mind you. Not what is actual justice!) for her parents and brothers.  She is and will be passing these death sentences based on incomplete data.  Rickon and Bran are not dead.  Jon committed a serious crime at the wall.  Theon deserves to die for his crimes but not for the ones she will want to kill him for. 

Probably a serving girl or two. Maybe a lady. 

 

For her parents, I would think she would have fairly complete evidence if she got back to Westeros. She was there after all for Ned and Walder pasted his actions all over. And I don't think anyone would dispute her killing Cersei, especially if wildfire!Cersei slips in. Theon, I don't honestly see how he'll survive Stannis, and Rickon at the very least will be coming out soon. And as for Jon, the wildlings will most likely deal with BW and his people. 

 

[TheLastWolf]

12 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Patience, Padawan. The thread author will eventually get tired of posting a tiny post to keep this afloat, it can be hoped.

On 11/7/2021 at 5:53 AM, Rondo said:

Tsk Tsk Tsk, your apparent ignorance about rants is revealed/betrayed by your utopian comment. 

[Jaenara Belarys]

10 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Tsk Tsk Tsk, your apparent ignorance about rants is revealed/betrayed by your utopian comment. 

Oh, my sweet summer child. What do you know of rants? Rants are for the winter, when the posts are few and far between and the white walkers stride the forum. 

[TheLastWolf]

5 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Oh, my sweet summer child. What do you know of rants? Rants are for the winter, when the posts are few and far between and the white walkers stride the forum. 

https://i.imgflip.com/2y8ggi.jpg

 

[Jaenara Belarys]

Just now, TheLastWolf said:

https://i.imgflip.com/2y8ggi.jpg

 

Long ago, the white walkers came for the first time, riding upon their trolls. They swept over threads and subforums, and forums, leading hosts of the slain. All the modhammers of moderators could not stay their advance, and even commoners and freeriders were hunted down. Many great rants were fought. All were lost. So, child. This is the story you like? 

(no, I'm not implying anything about anyone) 

[Lady Barbrey]

I agree with the OP’s first post that she’s off the rails and becoming unlikable. She and Tyrion were originally my faves and I don’t know if I’m rooting for either of them anymore. 
 

In her case, I’m not hoping so much for redemption, but perhaps a major twist.   To do with cats, warging and another little girl entirely. 

[TheLastWolf]

12 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Long ago, the white walkers came for the first time, riding upon their trolls. They swept over threads and subforums, and forums, leading hosts of the slain. All the modhammers of moderators could not stay their advance, and even commoners and freeriders were hunted down. Many great rants were fought. All were lost. So, child. This is the story you like? 

(no, I'm not implying anything about anyone) 

I've signed a non-disclosure agreement, so no comments

[Daeron the Daring]

The first time I clicked on this post and man, I've seen enough.

[Darth Sidious]

On 11/7/2021 at 11:12 AM, Rondo said:

Arya has some plot armor.  But you do agree that she should be imprisoned to stop her from murdering more people.  The murders of the insurance agent and Dareon were bad enough.  I know you don't agree with me when I say Arya is insane.  We disagree on that matter.  But you do at least agree that Arya Stark should be incarcerated to stop her from killing those who do not deserve death.  

Listen here @Jaenara Belaerys . If the only people Arya will kill are Cersei and the people who were directly responsible for the demise of the Starks, yes, I could accept it. Westeros is big enough to accommodate a crazy person walking around freely.  Something to scare the children with.   But I think you know there will be innocents who will die because of Arya's determination to get justice (What she thinks is justice, mind you. Not what is actual justice!) for her parents and brothers.  She is and will be passing these death sentences based on incomplete data.  Rickon and Bran are not dead.  Jon committed a serious crime at the wall.  Theon deserves to die for his crimes but not for the ones she will want to kill him for.  Bowen Marsh and his men do not deserve to be killed because it was Jon who was wrong.  

I read a lot of your writings and you seem fair on most matters.  I am asking you to consider.  I know we will never agree on Arya's mental condition.  But a fair person would know that the murders of the insurance seller and Dareon were wrong.  

She has thick plot armor but we can still condemn her actions. Her fans are kidding themselves if they think the sweetling is the last of her victims.  Arya is not a grey character.  She is very dark.  

[Jaenara Belarys]

20 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

The first time I clicked on this post and man, I've seen enough.

What scared you off, the troll riding white walkers or the content? (I'd say it's pretty tame compared to others, like N+W=J and the short lived Catelyn's treatment of Jon thread). 

20 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

I've signed a non-disclosure agreement, so no comments

I'll need you to fax this to my lawyer  . 

[TheLastWolf]

3 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

I'll need you to fax this to my lawyer  . 

Let's just say I couldn't hold myself back from erupting (damn hormones, at least at this age I can blame them, need to find a new scapegoat) and got penalized one or 5 times. So now playing it safe.

[Jaenara Belarys]

8 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

Let's just say I couldn't hold myself back from erupting (damn hormones, at least at this age I can blame them, need to find a new scapegoat) and got penalized one or 5 times. So now playing it safe.

Gods be good! Too much information, thanks. 

 

I was going through my posts from when I first joined the forum and found this: https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/158507-dareon-was-a-victim-of-aryas-brand-of-justice/page/25/#comments

It's amusing,to say the least. Possibly @Rondo should've simply reopened that? 

 

[Daeron the Daring]

4 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

What scared you off, the troll riding white walkers or the content?

We can only guess. 

4 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

(I'd say it's pretty tame compared to others, like N+W=J and the short lived Catelyn's treatment of Jon thread). 

There are things really hard to swallow to me in here. Mayve just me. Anyway, these are the same people arguing here who've been doing it a while ago (see: the topic that was linked in here). My opinion didn't change from back then. Arya has some things she should work out for herself, but her life is still dependant on her future choices, we shouldn't dig her grave. Yet. 

[SeanF]

6 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

What scared you off, the troll riding white walkers or the content? (I'd say it's pretty tame compared to others, like N+W=J and the short lived Catelyn's treatment of Jon thread). 

I'll need you to fax this to my lawyer  . 

It’s a while since we’ve had a thread about Catelyn the Monster, or Daenerys the Slut, or The Red Wedding was Justified, and I used to enjoy those.  The absolute best was the argument that Robb should have executed Catelyn.

We still get Janos Slynt the Martyr, I’m pleased to say.

[TheLastWolf]

2 hours ago, SeanF said:

Catelyn the Monster, or Daenerys the Slut

I think it was vice versa? Or both for both?

2 hours ago, SeanF said:

We still get Janos Slynt the Martyr, I’m pleased to say.

Noshtaljea

[Mikoto]

How fascinating! I’m new, just stumbled across this thread. I’ve watched the show but am only just getting to the books.

 I have to say I don’t think Arya is insane. She’s capable of control and patience as shown with the sweeping then cleaning of bodies until “invited” for further training by the Faceless Men. I doubt someone truly insane could manage that.

Yet at the same time I really can’t say she’s totally mentally healthy either. She’s seen so much people she loved killed, she’s been held captive so many times. She’s traumatised, grief stricken and has no legal way to get justice other than take it into her own hands. PTSD? Sure. Traumatised and grieving? Sure. Depressed? Probably. Totally insane? No I doubt it.

Ramsey Snow though… Oh yes, utterly off his rocker.

~ Mikoto 

[Rara Avis]

Wow, the quality of discussion here have deteriorated over the years... There were always waves of obsessive hatred towards some characters here (Catelyn and Sansa, a classic, then Dany, etc), but at least those post felt genuine, instead of some trollish bait with zero arguments. 

On topic: if you think Arya is insane, then what punishment we're talking about? Insane people are the ones who have distorted perception of reality (psychopaths aren't insane, for example) and thus aren't responsible for their actions. 

Anyway, people who go through serious trauma can react in variety of ways - you can break down, go catatonic... or you adapt, accept your reality as something relatively normal, get used to it. Arya has very strong psyche, so she manages to adapt quite successfully. But the world she has to adapt to is cruel world where you have to be capable of quick violence to survive - and she's a survivor, for better and for worse. So she became hardened, desentisized to violence and death - all entirely natural reactions for someone who wasn't broken by what happened before. Like with soldiers, where some become "broken men" (who could get healthy again with proper treatment, but will probably die ignobly in Westeros) and others get used to death and killing over time. They can still develop PTS(D) and of course they are traumatized, but in a way that allows to survive in their enviroment. 

 

 

[Darth Sidious]

On 11/10/2021 at 12:36 PM, Mikoto said:

How fascinating! I’m new, just stumbled across this thread. I’ve watched the show but am only just getting to the books.

 I have to say I don’t think Arya is insane. She’s capable of control and patience as shown with the sweeping then cleaning of bodies until “invited” for further training by the Faceless Men. I doubt someone truly insane could manage that.

Yet at the same time I really can’t say she’s totally mentally healthy either. She’s seen so much people she loved killed, she’s been held captive so many times. She’s traumatised, grief stricken and has no legal way to get justice other than take it into her own hands. PTSD? Sure. Traumatised and grieving? Sure. Depressed? Probably. Totally insane? No I doubt it.

Ramsey Snow though… Oh yes, utterly off his rocker.

~ Mikoto 

There are different degrees, or levels, on the scale of insanity. Arya Stark is insane but not as insane as Aerion Brightflame. There is mental damage.  The traumatic experiences made her a victim. But her choices also made her a volunteer.

[Darth Sidious]

13 minutes ago, Laren Dorr said:

There are different degrees, or levels, on the scale of insanity. Arya Stark is insane but not as insane as Aerion Brightflame. 

Being insane also doesn’t mean complete dysfunction.