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Arya's mental illness


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1 hour ago, GMantis said:

Arya also thought her mother wouldn't want her back because she was dirty and her hair was not brushed, so it's clear that her understanding of what her mother thought of her is somewhat inaccurate, to say the least.

You realise Arya says this because she doesn't want to admit to killing people, I trust.  Her real concern is what Catelyn would think of her slitting a Northman's throat at Harrenhall, not that she hasn't combed her hair. :thumbsup:

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15 minutes ago, the trees have eyes said:

You realise Arya says this because she doesn't want to admit to killing people, I trust.  Her real concern is what Catelyn would think of her slitting a Northman's throat at Harrenhall, not that she hasn't combed her hair. :thumbsup:

No, I don't realize this because it's clear from the context that Arya is indeed concerned that her mother won't want because of her appearance:

 

Quote

 “What if my brother doesn’t want to ransom me?”

“Why would you think that?” asked Lord Beric.

"Well," Arya said, "my hair's messy and my nails are dirty and my feet are all hard." Robb wouldn't care about that, probably, but her mother would. Lady Catelyn always wanted her to be like Sansa, to sing and dance and sew and mind her courtesies. Just thinking of it made Arya try to comb her hair with her fingers, but it was all tangles and mats, and all she did was tear some out.

 

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2 hours ago, GMantis said:

Talk about being wrong! Arya can't return to her family. She only has Jon left and no one is travelling to the Wall any longer. She has no choice but to stay with the Faceless Men.

Uno reverse card or something:

Quote
"You lie," he said, "but you may keep your secrets if you wish, Arya of House Stark." He only called her that when she displeased him. "You know that you may leave this place. You are not one of us, not yet. You may go home anytime you wish."
 
"You told me that if I left, I couldn't come back."
 
"Just so."
 
Those words made her sad. Syrio used to say that too, Arya remembered. He said it all the time. Syrio Forel had taught her needlework and died for her. "I don't want to leave."
 
Arya II, AFFC
 
2 hours ago, GMantis said:
2 hours ago, GMantis said:

Arya also thought her mother wouldn't want her back because she was dirty and her hair was not brushed, so it's clear that her understanding of what her mother thought of her is somewhat inaccurate, to say the least. The Catelyn Stark that dreamed of strangling Cersei and advised to Robb to torture Theon to death is not going to condemn her daughter of wanting people to kill people. As for her father, his understanding of good parenting means that he won't be willing Arya too harshly for what he himself would do without hesitation, which is part of the traditions and culture of their people and when considering what Arya has went through. Again, like most critics of Arya's actions, you're judging her by modern standards, when you'd never dream of doing so for other characters.

 

Neither the Kindly Man, nor Arya thinks she can't go home, like it or not. And unless Tycho Nestoris was using his wings to fly to the Wall and the talk about 3 ships accompanying him was fairytales, there were ships that could've taken her directly to the Wall, not to speak of ways that don't directly lead there. And a semi-trained Arya could leave Braavos whenever she wants to, that is for sure. She could aquire the money for it. I do not apply modern standards on her. I was looking at what her family would think of her, and since the gap between our opinions is so big, I suggest not to continue this conversation, once again.

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7 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Uno reverse card or something:

Neither the Kindly Man, nor Arya thinks she can't go home, like it or not. And unless Tycho Nestoris was using his wings to fly to the Wall and the talk about 3 ships accompanying him was fairytales, there were ships that could've taken her directly to the Wall, not to speak of ways that don't directly lead there. And a semi-trained Arya could leave Braavos whenever she wants to, that is for sure. She could aquire the money for it. I do not apply modern standards on her. I was looking at what her family would think of her, and since the gap between our opinions is so big, I suggest not to continue this conversation, once again.

Tycho Nestoris was traveling on an official mission by the Iron Bank, accompanied by the Braavos Navy. No one is going to allow some random girl to travel with them - it's not as if it was a regular passenger ship. Now the Faceless Man could probably have arranged for her to be allowed to got to the Wall, but they don't want that. They only offered her to go to Gulltown, Duskendale or King's Landing, none of which are at all helpful in reaching the North. So it's clear that they were not at all sincere when they told her that she could go home and Arya is not so naive as to believe them.

And even if there were ships going to Eastwatch, where would Arya get money to buy passage? She isn't being paid a wage and any work she could have outside of the House of Black and White would be unlikely to provide her with more money than what she needs to avoid starving, certainly not enough to board a ship.

Edited by GMantis
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4 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

You will not believe it, but my gut said this dumpsterfire would still be burning when I returned after all these months

We still fight the good fight. I believe I called someone laughable when they attempted to cover it with modern morals and values. In this setting. 

Edited by Jaenara Belarys
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21 hours ago, GMantis said:

No, I don't realize this because it's clear from the context that Arya is indeed concerned that her mother won't want because of her appearance:

Good lord.  I see you missed some of the full quote:

A Storm of Swords - Arya VII

Arya didn't know how much Robb would pay for her, though. He was a king now, not the boy she'd left at Winterfell with snow melting in his hair. And if he knew the things she'd done, the stableboy and the guard at Harrenhal and all . . . "What if my brother doesn't want to ransom me?"
 
"Why would you think that?" asked Lord Beric.
 
"Well," Arya said, "my hair's messy and my nails are dirty and my feet are all hard." Robb wouldn't care about that, probably, but her mother would. Lady Catelyn always wanted her to be like Sansa, to sing and dance and sew and mind her courtesies. Just thinking of it made Arya try to comb her hair with her fingers, but it was all tangles and mats, and all she did was tear some out. "I ruined that gown that Lady Smallwood gave me, and I don't sew so good." She chewed her lip. "I don't sew very well, I mean. Septa Mordane used to say I had a blacksmith's hands."

 

It's quite clear that what is on her mind are the things she has done as this is exactly what she is thinking before she asks her question.  When queried she can hardly say this so responds with how her mother would disapprove of her appearance.  This is evasion on her part and the substitution of superficial and childish hence plausible concerns for her real ones which she can hardly give voice to.

 

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13 hours ago, GMantis said:

Tycho Nestoris was traveling on an official mission by the Iron Bank, accompanied by the Braavos Navy. No one is going to allow some random girl to travel with them - it's not as if it was a regular passenger ship. Now the Faceless Man could probably have arranged for her to be allowed to got to the Wall, but they don't want that. They only offered her to go to Gulltown, Duskendale or King's Landing, none of which are at all helpful in reaching the North. So it's clear that they were not at all sincere when they told her that she could go home and Arya is not so naive as to believe them.

And even if there were ships going to Eastwatch, where would Arya get money to buy passage? She isn't being paid a wage and any work she could have outside of the House of Black and White would be unlikely to provide her with more money than what she needs to avoid starving, certainly not enough to board a ship.

Whatever. See ya later.

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9 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

We still fight the good fight. I believe I called someone laughable when they attempted to cover it with modern morals and values. In this setting. 

Desperate they are

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2 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

Desperate they are

I was sorta checking in only briefly for the past few months, so I only occasionally saw them, but I'm really remembering all the ridiculous catfights that went on here and on other threads, now that it's summer and I can be on here more without having to worry about stuff.  

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10 hours ago, the trees have eyes said:

Good lord.  I see you missed some of the full quote:

A Storm of Swords - Arya VII

Arya didn't know how much Robb would pay for her, though. He was a king now, not the boy she'd left at Winterfell with snow melting in his hair. And if he knew the things she'd done, the stableboy and the guard at Harrenhal and all . . . "What if my brother doesn't want to ransom me?"
 
"Why would you think that?" asked Lord Beric.
 
"Well," Arya said, "my hair's messy and my nails are dirty and my feet are all hard." Robb wouldn't care about that, probably, but her mother would. Lady Catelyn always wanted her to be like Sansa, to sing and dance and sew and mind her courtesies. Just thinking of it made Arya try to comb her hair with her fingers, but it was all tangles and mats, and all she did was tear some out. "I ruined that gown that Lady Smallwood gave me, and I don't sew so good." She chewed her lip. "I don't sew very well, I mean. Septa Mordane used to say I had a blacksmith's hands."

 

It's quite clear that what is on her mind are the things she has done as this is exactly what she is thinking before she asks her question.  When queried she can hardly say this so responds with how her mother would disapprove of her appearance.  This is evasion on her part and the substitution of superficial and childish hence plausible concerns for her real ones which she can hardly give voice to.

 

And we have a whole paragraph where she's thinking about how her mother won't approve of her appearance and even tries to comb her hair. It's clear that this is also a significant concern for Arya.

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15 hours ago, GMantis said:

And we have a whole paragraph where she's thinking about how her mother won't approve of her appearance and even tries to comb her hair. It's clear that this is also a significant concern for Arya.

That's a distraction for herself as much as for her audience.  And not at all uncommon for either victims or perpetrators to avoid thinking about bad memories.  Much easier to think about how her mother would disapprove of her hair and clothes than her brother would disapprove of her being a killer and a murderer, no?  She shies away from facing up to her real fears which is perfectly understandable for a child, particularly given what she's done.

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On 6/22/2022 at 12:55 AM, Quoth the raven, said:

A positive role model!  She's not gonna find that among the Starks.  It's gonna take more than a role model to change her mind.  Advanced medication of our time and some serious psychotherapy along with prison time might help.  But those things are lacking in her world.  Arya is too defensive to benefit from talk therapy.  The poor psych will die from needle if he or she should say anything unflattering about her family.  Arya is so much worse in Dance than she was when she met the Dayne boy. She took offense when none was intended.  Nothing the boy said deserved an angry response.  Arya is a female version of Jon.  Very easy to anger.  Very short of fuse and explosive. 

Role models won't cure Arya's insanity.  

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