Why do people hate these starks

[Daenerysthegreat]

Don't get me wrong I also don't like ned, robb and jon snow but I don't understand the hate towards these starks. 

Catelyn: She is intelligent, kind and loves her family. She also had to tolerate her husband's bastard. She gave good advice to her foolish son which he didn't listen to. What's there to dislike about her? Isn't she a victim? 

Sansa:She is the perfect lady. She manages to survive in kings landing all by herself. She also is kind to even her enemies(Lancel lannister).

Arya :She defies social expectations and manages to survive an war torn land. Adult men could nit do what she could do. 

Bran:He is a child who makes the best if his crippled situation. He was brave even before becoming a cripple. He also decides to pass the dangerous beyond the beyond the wall. 

Rickon:He is five years old and extremely innocent. How can people even hate him. 

 

[EggBlue]

first of all why don't u like Ned , Robb and Jon?! surely they are not perfect but still they are good people and more than that good characters

as for your question I doubt anyone hates Bran and Rickon! they are kids! one of whom had barely been in the story!

stark women also have many good qualities and I don't think people downright hate them but all goes back to people taste in characters' stories and personalities . I personally don't really like Cat although I do admit she is a badass. But she captured one Lannister in an inn for everyone to see and go inform Tywin .and that started the whole war. she could be more secretive about it since she was accompanied with a deadly knight whilst Tyrion was accompanied by a servant and a soldier still I don't call that foolishness.. after all she thought the guy wanted to kill her son! but I call letting go of one's most important hostage foolishness ! that might be why U think "everyone" hates Cat. Sansa is a good girl but some might find her an idiot and/or dull and Arya's a lost angry kid and she is on her way to become ruthless 

[Daenerysthegreat]

6 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

first of all why don't u like Ned , Robb and Jon?! surely they are not perfect but still they are good people and more than that good characters

 

 

Ned stark is single handedly responsible for every suffering his family has to go through

 

7 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

 

as for your question I doubt anyone hates Bran and Rickon! they are kids! one of whom had barely been in the story!

 

There are threads where people are calling bran a rapist and rickon a cannibal. I think that qualifies as hate. 

 

8 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

 

stark women also have many good qualities and I don't think people downright hate them but all goes back to people taste in characters' stories and personalities . I personally don't really like Cat although I do admit she is a badass. But she captured one Lannister in an inn for everyone to see and go inform Tywin .and that started the whole war. she could be more secretive about it since she was accompanied with a deadly knight whilst Tyrion was accompanied by a servant and a soldier still I don't call that foolishness.. after all she thought the guy wanted to kill her son! but I call letting go of one's most important hostage foolishness ! that might be why U think "everyone" hates Cat. Sansa is a good girl but some might find her an idiot and/or dull and Arya's a lost angry kid and she is on her way to become ruthless 

Ned robb and jon have done far more worse things than cat sansa and arya. 

[SeanF]

I don't think that any of these characters is written to be hateful, but people can get hyper-partisan.

There used to be quite a few threads where Catelyn was described as Jon's abuser, and blamed for the War of the Five Kings, which is quite unfair.

Then, we get Arya the psychopathic murderer, but I think that's a definite minority viewpoint. Overall, I think Arya is very popular with readers.

Sansa has her faults (snobbery, and dishonesty) but she also possesses kindness and empathy.  She is not a hateful character.  That said, she does frequently get blamed for Ned's downfall.  And, I think too, her portrayal in the show did her no favours.  She had become Cersei 2.0 by the end. But, show Sansa is really three characters combined (Sansa, Alys Karstark, Jeyne Poole) and should be viewed as someone entirely different to her book version. 

[Moiraine Sedai]

George creates colorful characters to provoke strong emotions in his reader. Most of the major characters will be polarizing. All of the Starks, excepting Rickon, have done terrible things which many of us don't like.  I don't dislike Ned, Cat, Rickon, and Robb. I think Sansa is dumb but I don't hate her like some of the men here do.  I'm not warm towards Bran because he is becoming the lord of darkness already. He is the scariest of the Starks and will do more harm than good. He's going to betray BR.  I can't stand Arya and Jon. It's just their behavior that turns me off. They're like loaded and chambered firearms with no safety. 

[Arthur Peres]

3 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

Catelyn: She is intelligent, kind and loves her family. She also had to tolerate her husband's bastard. She gave good advice to her foolish son which he didn't listen to. What's there to dislike about her? Isn't she a victim? 

 

She is very hypocrite, judmental, and over the head with her own affairs... she is a great character, but she can also be very annoying.

4 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

Sansa:She is the perfect lady. She manages to survive in kings landing all by herself. She also is kind to even her enemies(Lancel lannister).

 

She really isn't... She is too dumb, blind and self absorved for that... Margeary runs circles around Sansa as the perfect lady.

 

3 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

Bran:He is a child who makes the best if his crippled situation. He was brave even before becoming a cripple. He also decides to pass the dangerous beyond the beyond the wall. 

 

His chapters are boring, and pretty much a chore to read... with very few exceptions... calling then slow does not do justice.

Robb and Ned are my two favorite characters in the books... Jon is not together with them because just like Tyrion and Daenerys I can feel the plot armor around him from miles away.

[Amris]

54 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

[snip]

 

His chapters are boring, and pretty much a chore to read... with very few exceptions... calling then slow does not do justice.

Robb and Ned are my two favorite characters in the books... Jon is not together with them because just like Tyrion and Daenerys I can feel the plot armor around him from miles away.

I like all the Starks to a degree - but I am not always in favor of GRRM's method of advancing the story. Meaning that there are authors who have their characters (mostly) behave logically - which leads to a plot-driven story, since the story does not get derailed by illogical behavior - and then there is GRRM who in order to get a character-driven story has his characters behave illogically at certain important junctions of his story.

The Starks are prime examples of this.

Ned behaves unbelievably stupid in order do get himself killed and get the story going. Same with Robb and Cat. And with Jon. Three times the exact same method of advancing the story.

If it happens once it's like - yeah, people aren't perfect. They make mistakes. This feels real. Once it happens all over again and again you notice it's really a method of storytelling by the author and not any sort of in-game character-logic. Then it starts to get annoying and also lessens the suspense because the fourth wall is broken and instead of feeling in-world with the character you can't fail to notice what the author is doing and fall out of the world and think 'yeah - this isn't Jon acting like Jon - this is GRRM wanting to have a dramatic murder and a cool resurrection, never mind Jon had been acting very intelligently in his job as Commander of the NW before but suddenly has become very dumb.'

In conclusion I have nothing against the Starks, male of female (though I admit I find Sansa somewhat bland. However I love her snow-castle chapter and I think the character has potential in the future). What I don't really like is the obvious way the Stark characters get purposefully dumbed up to push the story certain ways.

[Lord Lannister]

There's plenty of valid reasons why people might dislike certain characters.

Catelyn's treatment of Jon always rubbed me the wrong way. No she didn't owe him anything, but that doesn't give her a pass on taking out her anger over Ned "cheating" on a helpless child. That she took it out on Jon who was a vulnerable child in regards to lack of a mother instead of Ned is just an act of moral cowardice to me. She's a great character and definitely drives the story ahead though and didn't deserve to go out the way she did(or turn into Stoneheart) but on a personal level I can't say I cared for her.

Sansa literally started out the series as a girl with a crush on Joffrey that ended up choosing him over her family initially. By the time she wised up to what he really was the damage was already done. Now that she escaped that situation she's in Littlefinger's influence now for better or worse, albeit not willingly. She's an interesting character too... but honestly just an insufferable brat most of her arc. So she's not my favorite. 

Bran... yeah he's on a VERY slippery slope morally now that he's just casually going around warging into Hodor to have fun exploring caves and such. I get why he's doing it, he's a kid who doesn't know better, but it's scary. Hope he doesn't end up going full "lord of darkness" but the potential is there.

Arya? Also on a very slippery slope being how easily she's becoming a killer. I can see how people would be disturbed by her actions. 

Rickon? Meh. He just kinda seems to be there as a placeholder Stark almost. Hard to get excited about him one way or the other.

But just because you dislike a character doesn't mean they're not fun to read, their story is boring or they're not integral to it. Tywin is a perfect example of this. He's the asshole to rule all assholes but without him the Lannisters would be(and now are) a lesser force in the story. 

[Hugorfonics]

11 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

Ned stark is single handedly responsible for every suffering his family has to go through

Other families too

11 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

There are threads where people are calling bran a rapist and rickon a cannibal. I think that qualifies as hate. 

Who'd Ridkon eat? 

Bran on the other hand ate people. And mind rapes hodor, it's not hate, it's facts 

11 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

Ned robb and jon have done far more worse things than cat sansa and arya. 

Robb, to me, will always be that heroic king who fought the good fight until he was viciously murdered. 

Jon too. The fight was gooder if anything. 

[The Commentator]

11 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

Don't get me wrong I also don't like ned, robb and jon snow but I don't understand the hate towards these starks. 

Catelyn: She is intelligent, kind and loves her family. She also had to tolerate her husband's bastard. She gave good advice to her foolish son which he didn't listen to. What's there to dislike about her? Isn't she a victim? 

Sansa:She is the perfect lady. She manages to survive in kings landing all by herself. She also is kind to even her enemies(Lancel lannister).

Arya :She defies social expectations and manages to survive an war torn land. Adult men could nit do what she could do. 

Bran:He is a child who makes the best if his crippled situation. He was brave even before becoming a cripple. He also decides to pass the dangerous beyond the beyond the wall. 

Rickon:He is five years old and extremely innocent. How can people even hate him. 

I don’t despise every member of the Stark family. Just Jon and Sansa. I’ve never liked them. I found myself despising Jon during his first chapter in Game of Thrones. I feel the same about Sansa. Robb was an idiot but I don’t hate him. Arya is complete looney in the head but I don’t hate her. Her head is shaped like a Planters cashew nut but that doesn’t bother me.  I don’t enjoy Arya as a character.  
 

 

[Daenerysthegreat]

9 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

There's plenty of valid reasons why people might dislike certain characters.

Catelyn's treatment of Jon always rubbed me the wrong way. No she didn't owe him anything, but that doesn't give her a pass on taking out her anger over Ned "cheating" on a helpless child. That she took it out on Jon who was a vulnerable child in regards to lack of a mother instead of Ned is just an act of moral cowardice to me. She's a great character and definitely drives the story ahead though and didn't deserve to go out the way she did(or turn into Stoneheart) but on a personal level I can't say I cared for her.

 

Ok, can you treat your husbands child who is living reminder of a fact that your husband cheated on you with love. I can't I'm not that kind or great. 

 

 

[Hrulj]

18 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

Don't get me wrong I also don't like ned, robb and jon snow but I don't understand the hate towards these starks. 

Catelyn: She is intelligent, kind and loves her family. She also had to tolerate her husband's bastard. She gave good advice to her foolish son which he didn't listen to. What's there to dislike about her? Isn't she a victim? 

Sansa:She is the perfect lady. She manages to survive in kings landing all by herself. She also is kind to even her enemies(Lancel lannister).

Arya :She defies social expectations and manages to survive an war torn land. Adult men could nit do what she could do. 

Bran:He is a child who makes the best if his crippled situation. He was brave even before becoming a cripple. He also decides to pass the dangerous beyond the beyond the wall. 

Rickon:He is five years old and extremely innocent. How can people even hate him. 

 

1. She's stupid and doesn't think things trough. She makes war altering decisions that cripple her sons faction in a war of survival or death based on emotions, with no guarantee of any kind it will be reciprocated. Which it wasn't. Which then led to her son being murdered.

 

2. I don't hate Sansa.

 

3. Exactly my reason why I hate her. She's a child. Ever seen an 9/10/11 yearold in real life? Some things are just plain physically not possible. 11 yearolds are clumsy, not because of lack of training but literally their body is clumsy and build like that. They fall all the time. They don't have the strength to murder people trough brute force. She's treated like an olympic weightlifting champion ninja at 11. It's cringy.

 

4. I don't hate him.

 

5. I dont have him either. 

[Daenerysthegreat]

35 minutes ago, Hrulj said:

 

3. Exactly my reason why I hate her. She's a child. Ever seen an 9/10/11 yearold in real life? Some things are just plain physically not possible. 11 yearolds are clumsy, not because of lack of training but literally their body is clumsy and build like that. They fall all the time. They don't have the strength to murder people trough brute force. She's treated like an olympic weightlifting champion ninja at 11. It's cringy.

This is not real life this is a mediaeval place where she has survived through rapists, murderers etc. If you think 11 year olds are all clumsy I'll introduce you to some. She didn't muder her enemies through brute force she murdered them being  quiet and quick ans small. 

[Lord Lannister]

2 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

Ok, can you treat your husbands child who is living reminder of a fact that your husband cheated on you with love. I can't I'm not that kind or great. 

 

 

The child did nothing wrong. She has every right to be mad Ned "cheated" on her. She was perfectly fine being lovey dovey with Ned even while that reminder was walking around. If she had the courage of her convictions she would've taken it out on Ned and not Jon. But you know, Ned could stand up for himself the way a child couldn't.

[WhatAnArtist!]

The only time I genuinely despised a Stark character was Sansa in AGoT, specifically because of two incidents: her siding with Joffrey in the incident by the river, and her ratting out her father to Cersei. Her blind and irrational devotion to Joffrey was painful to read, and feels a little bit over-the-top at times, even taking into consideration Sansa's romanticisation of everything chivalric. But as soon as Ned is executed, Sansa becomes a much more tolerable and sometimes even likeable character. I prefer her over Arya, which might be an unpopular opinion. Arya is just too much of a cliche for my liking. Sansa is at least a somewhat original character for this type of story.

[Darth Sidious]

I don’t like Sansa, Arya, Robb, Jon, and Bran.  I don’t understand why people like Arya. 

[EggBlue]

8 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

The child did nothing wrong. She has every right to be mad Ned "cheated" on her. She was perfectly fine being lovey dovey with Ned even while that reminder was walking around. If she had the courage of her convictions she would've taken it out on Ned and not Jon. But you know, Ned could stand up for himself the way a child couldn't.

I agree that Cat had been horrible to Jon. she told the boy he should have died for crying out loud! but the truth is she hated Jon so much because she couldn't hate Ned. not that she couldn't because of her epic love or anything but because in their relationship ,or relationship of any lord and lady for that matter, the lord is in the position of power. she had gone to a frozen place far from family and friends and it was on her to make the best of the situation . so if she wanted to have a good family life or any power and influence in the north she had to forgive Ned. she wasn't able to fully forgive Ned because she felt hamulated and according to her chapters even threatened for Robb's future rights so she threw all her anger to poor baby Jon and made victim out of him as well.

[Lord Lannister]

1 hour ago, EggBlue said:

I agree that Cat had been horrible to Jon. she told the boy he should have died for crying out loud! but the truth is she hated Jon so much because she couldn't hate Ned. not that she couldn't because of her epic love or anything but because in their relationship ,or relationship of any lord and lady for that matter, the lord is in the position of power. she had gone to a frozen place far from family and friends and it was on her to make the best of the situation . so if she wanted to have a good family life or any power and influence in the north she had to forgive Ned. she wasn't able to fully forgive Ned because she felt hamulated and according to her chapters even threatened for Robb's future rights so she threw all her anger to poor baby Jon and made victim out of him as well.

That's a perspective I haven't seen before. It's definitely a tragic story for all three of them, who are all sadly all too human each with their own faults. As you said we had her viewpoint on the matter, along with Ned's. There seemed to be genuine affection both ways even if it wasn't heated passion. I suppose it's possible Catelyn did compartmentalize her anger towards the affair and given the setting she had to be all too aware of the power disparity in the marriage even if Ned wasn't as overbearing as most lords would be. We as humans do express anger in odd ways. I just can't condone her taking out her frustration, however understandable it may be, on a child. So that always gave me a terrible impression of her that stuck with me through multiple rereads. 

Ned had to have been aware of this on some level, so I'm not even sure why he played things the way he did. You'd think for the sake of domestic tranquility for all involved he'd either have Jon live in a nearby holdfast a day's ride down the road or something so he could still be something of a father figure to him while he was immediately out of sight or just swear Catelyn to secrecy and tell her the truth concerning Jon. 

[Daenerysthegreat]

5 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

That's a perspective I haven't seen before. It's definitely a tragic story for all three of them, who are all sadly all too human each with their own faults. As you said we had her viewpoint on the matter, along with Ned's. There seemed to be genuine affection both ways even if it wasn't heated passion. I suppose it's possible Catelyn did compartmentalize her anger towards the affair and given the setting she had to be all too aware of the power disparity in the marriage even if Ned wasn't as overbearing as most lords would be. We as humans do express anger in odd ways. I just can't condone her taking out her frustration, however understandable it may be, on a child. So that always gave me a terrible impression of her that stuck with me through multiple rereads. 

Ned had to have been aware of this on some level, so I'm not even sure why he played things the way he did. You'd think for the sake of domestic tranquility for all involved he'd either have Jon live in a nearby holdfast a day's ride down the road or something so he could still be something of a father figure to him while he was immediately out of sight or just swear Catelyn to secrecy and tell her the truth concerning Jon. 

Well I saw from that perspective ever since I read the books. This is what made Ned a villain in my eyes

 

He could have sent Jon to star fall to live with his mother. I’m sure the daynes would have treated both Wylla and Jon kindly but he took Jon to winter fell and insulted cat

[WhatAnArtist!]

1 hour ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

This is what made Ned a villain in my eyes

That's..... a bit much. Come on.