Aussies and NZers: Jabs, Jobs and (grounded) Jets

[Paxter]

9 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I guess that's what it boils down to, because you can bet "hang on until France arrives" will only be a thing if an aggressor is attacking New Caledonia or French Polynesia, and even then France will have to think about it for a while, and America will arrive first. 

Sure, but there is more to Australia-France relations than defence. The EU is Australia’s second largest trading partner, and France is the Number 2 power in the EU (or equal first if you ask the French!)

Anyway it was clumsy and dumb but that’s ScoMo for you. Not the worst of his mistakes by any stretch of the imagination.

[The Anti-Targ]

1 hour ago, Paxter said:

Sure, but there is more to Australia-France relations than defence. The EU is Australia’s second largest trading partner, and France is the Number 2 power in the EU (or equal first if you ask the French!)

Anyway it was clumsy and dumb but that’s ScoMo for you. Not the worst of his mistakes by any stretch of the imagination.

Oh, the handling of it was absolutely stupid. Heck it even looks like Biden admitted as much to Macron when they met. And that weakens Morrison a bit, with seeming to need the US president to help try to smooth things over. Given the countries that make military hardware are all basically competing against each other for business, the US and UK did nothing wrong with trying to sweet talk, or even strong arm Aus into ditching France and going with them for the subs; which probably included non-specific promises of having Australia's back in a fight whereas would France offer the same support - hell no, which is objectively true. That's just business baby. The bad form is all on the Aus govt.

[Luzifer's right hand]

1 hour ago, Paxter said:

Sure, but there is more to Australia-France relations than defence. The EU is Australia’s second largest trading partner, and France is the Number 2 power in the EU (or equal first if you ask the French!)

Anyway it was clumsy and dumb but that’s ScoMo for you. Not the worst of his mistakes by any stretch of the imagination.

Well France has the best force projection and also nuclear weapons. With the UK gone it is certainly the military backbone of the EU.

[Skyrazer]

Really, what's annoyed me most about his whole submarine fiasco is that it's seemingly taken all the attention away from the climate summit itself.

Not that I really had much of any expectations from ScoMo's showing at the summit, all that we seemed to have gotten from it is a melodramatic pissing contest between ScoMo and Macron.

[karaddin]

10 minutes ago, Skyrazer said:

Really, what's annoyed me most about his whole submarine fiasco is that it's seemingly taken all the attention away from the climate summit itself.

Yeah I don't want to give the impression that I'm highly invested in it, I'm not. ScoMo engaging in unprofessional and damaging behaviour is not a surprise, I just wanted to push back on the bullshit saying that there was nothing to be critical and we're just not backing ourselves.

Anti Targ is spot on about the kind of situation we might actually use them in, and my entire overall point is that the entire thing is just about maintenance work on our strategic alliances and the subs themselves are largely irrelevant. And it was handled poorly.

I really don't see any path to even nodding at climate change in a serious manner as long as the coalition continues its current ideological balance. And I can't see Labor doing much either after the last election and Albo being a spineless shit for 3 years.

[The Anti-Targ]

6 minutes ago, Skyrazer said:

Really, what's annoyed me most about his whole submarine fiasco is that it's seemingly taken all the attention away from the climate summit itself.

Not that I really had much of any expectations from ScoMo's showing at the summit, all that we seemed to have gotten from it is a melodramatic pissing contest between ScoMo and Macron.

If you (collectively, not you personally), keep electing closet climate deniers into government then this is what you are going to get for climate policy. It's hard enough here, with the 2 parties in govt being genuinely fully on board with the truth of anthropogenic climate change and the majority of the population recognising it as a major issue, to get the govt to establish detailed policy to actually achieve the general targets that have been set.

[Squab]

23 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Been following the submarine saga with interest.

Why does the left wing Aussie press have such an inferiority complex when it comes to Australia’s standing in the world? They should be rallying around Morrison, telling Macron to get screwed with his inferior submarines. Instead, they are immediately alarmed by any perceived disgruntlement the French might have with Morrison acting in Australia’s military interest.

Aussies need to grow some self confidence instead of trying to avoid offence at all costs. Australia is a major power and should act accordingly.

 

As you can probably tell by the replies, its not about the country that spent 30 years nuking south pacific islands and whose most recent naval victory was sinking the Rainbow Warrior. We have an election coming up which means it doesn't matter who attacks the the current PM, the ABC along with the non taxpayer funded left wing media will run this on the front page until they get a new thing to pin on him or someone he was photographed with once.

[karaddin]

You are utterly full of shit if you try to claim the media wouldn't be critical of Albo for pulling this. The only difference is that Sky after dark would be acting like it was the worst thing that has ever happened instead of insisting it's nothing at all, neither of which is true.

[Squab]

I'm sure the media will be very even handed in any hypothetical situation you can come up with.

As evidence of how they actually act, please see how differently rape allegations against the ALP leader (Bill Shorten) were handled compared to that of a liberal front Bencher (Christian Porter). Some people who are "full of shit" as you call them will easily come up with a reason why this is ok but its just partisan BS. 

[ithanos]

Things slowly opening up around Western Sydney, though my radius of existence has only expanded to 4km. Have given coin to my local cinemas on five occasions in the last fortnight. The first four visits I was either the lone patron or shared the theatre with one other. Went today and it was frightfully packed. Could've been 15 to 20 people squashed in there, had to share my row with another - almost couldn't breathe, kept my mask on mostly, it was that full.

On Tip Top and bread brands, I had a friend who managed production at one of George Weston Foods facilities in Auckland and the quantities of flour (all Australian flour) that was processed weekly was staggering. They supplied to bakeries across the upper North Island, with another facility servicing the lower NI and one in the South Island. The amounts they supplied to to the fast food giants was also significant. The competition is Goodman Fielder and I presume the flour source is the same - all Australian wheat. I don't buy brand breads anymore, only a genuine sourdough or Turkish bread when its fresh or the occasional Lebanese bread.

On another note, I noticed last Telstra last week, with Govt assistance, had finally brought Digicel's Pacific operations, in lieu of potential Chinese ownership. Digicel does have a back-haul pipeline back to Sydney which the Govt would've been weary of potential compromise in the wrong hands. Digicel Pacific is profitable and Telstra have indicated they will not change any of its current operation, though I hope they do eventually invest in improving the service.    

[Paxter]

8 hours ago, Squab said:

I'm sure the media will be very even handed in any hypothetical situation you can come up with.

Oh the poor old Liberals! It must be so hard to have the Murdoch press in your back pocket, the ABC at your throat with a butter knife and 7 elections wins from the last 9.

My heart bleeds.

[Makk]

22 hours ago, Impmk2 said:

I don't think the majority of the Australian public has a particularly strong opinion on the sub deal either way.

The below was from a month ago where I would read it as being overall supportive. There has probably been a bigger or more recent poll since then but my gut feeling is the vast majority of Aussies don't care too much about it relative to issues that impact their daily life.

Quote

 

A majority of Australians back Scott Morrison’s moves to build strong ties with the United States and Britain to buttress Australia’s national defence, but respondents in the latest Guardian Essential poll also worry the new Aukus partnership will strain relations with China and Europe.

The survey of 1,094 respondents shows 62% believed Australia was correct to pursue the nuclear submarine deal with the US and the UK, while 54% agreed with the statement: “The Aukus partnership is in Australia’s best security and economic interests.”

But 55% thought the arrangement would further inflame relations with China – and after the French government’s furious reaction to Morrison’s decision to cancel a $90bn submarine contract with the Naval Group with minimal warning, 48% thought the new partnership would endanger trade deals with France and the European Union.

 

 

20 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Given the countries that make military hardware are all basically competing against each other for business, the US and UK did nothing wrong with trying to sweet talk, or even strong arm Aus into ditching France and going with them for the subs; which probably included non-specific promises of having Australia's back in a fight whereas would France offer the same support - hell no, which is objectively true. That's just business baby. The bad form is all on the Aus govt.

I think if there was any sort of political or strategical pressure that would be extremely bad form to exert on what is arguably their strongest ally.

[Skyrazer]

Ultimately foreign affair issues hold almost no weight with voters. It really is not going to be a deciding issue going into the election - when people go to vote, it's doubtful they'll be thinking about stuff happening with other countries unless it's going to war.

[Jeor]

11 hours ago, ithanos said:

On another note, I noticed last Telstra last week, with Govt assistance, had finally brought Digicel's Pacific operations, in lieu of potential Chinese ownership. Digicel does have a back-haul pipeline back to Sydney which the Govt would've been weary of potential compromise in the wrong hands. Digicel Pacific is profitable and Telstra have indicated they will not change any of its current operation, though I hope they do eventually invest in improving the service.    

As a Telstra shareholder I was following this deal quite closely. Telstra got a lot out of it - they only had to put $270M down to fully own a $2bn network as the government provided the rest of the financing (which was on very favourable terms for Telstra). For a company the size of Telstra (market cap of $40bn) it was a pretty easy deal to accept, and the bonus of being in the government's good books was too good to pass up.

I don't think the prospect of Chinese ownership was really that much of a goer, and was probably played up by the Digicel seller (an Irish businessman) to get a good price. But assuming Telstra are responsible owners and do the right thing by Digicel, it's probably a good move for Pacific relations and a mini example of Australia's own clout in the region. We don't want to be surrounded by Chinese Belt and Road stuff. 

[ithanos]

On 11/5/2021 at 8:37 AM, Jeor said:

As a Telstra shareholder I was following this deal quite closely. Telstra got a lot out of it - they only had to put $270M down to fully own a $2bn network as the government provided the rest of the financing (which was on very favourable terms for Telstra). For a company the size of Telstra (market cap of $40bn) it was a pretty easy deal to accept, and the bonus of being in the government's good books was too good to pass up.

I know Telstra had been an SoE before privatization but I was a little surprised at the Australian Governments zeal to support (encourage?) their bid for Digicel Pacific. Its certainly a good deal on Telstras part, put up 20%, the taxpayer fronts 80% and Telstra gets to own the venture 100%. Its a good deal at the moment, and if they let the current DPL management continue on running the operation, as they've indicated they would, without meddling from their Melbourne HQ, then the acquisition can remain profitable.   

From a Digicel Pacific consumer base point of view, from what I've read, they're not thinking about who owns the network as long as the service is good value - so, like most other consumer bases then. That permanent customer base (~10million) is now fairly saturated, but a large part of DPL's success came from tourists so the sooner travel opens up for the region the better. 

On 11/5/2021 at 8:37 AM, Jeor said:

I don't think the prospect of Chinese ownership was really that much of a goer, and was probably played up by the Digicel seller (an Irish businessman) to get a good price. But assuming Telstra are responsible owners and do the right thing by Digicel, it's probably a good move for Pacific relations and a mini example of Australia's own clout in the region. We don't want to be surrounded by Chinese Belt and Road stuff. 

Telstra must ensure the service doesn't stagnate, creating consumer dissatisfaction and opening the door for competition (read: back to China), especially when they upgrade to 5G down the track.  However, they would be mindful of the pitfalls that could turn this into a poisoned chalice years down the track, as observed in the last four paragraphs of this blog piece from industry consultant Paul Budde. TL:DR The Digicel networks are built on Chinese infrastructure and require the cooperation of the Chinese companies Huawei and ZTE for maintenance. The Chinese Government could influence this business through delays and frustrations.

[Paxter]

NZ cases up to 200 today, with that number doubling roughly every two weeks. That looks on the surface quite similar to NSW and VIC from a couple months ago, but hopefully with the advanced stage of the vaccine rollout, this is the peak?

The ACT is at about 95% double dose and cases are about to fall to single digits. Impressive.

[Wall Flower]

2 hours ago, Paxter said:

NZ cases up to 200 today, with that number doubling roughly every two weeks. That looks on the surface quite similar to NSW and VIC from a couple months ago, but hopefully with the advanced stage of the vaccine rollout, this is the peak?

The ACT is at about 95% double dose and cases are about to fall to single digits. Impressive.

A bit of a jump in the ACT today with 18 cases. I guess because we are out and about. I have a bit of a sore throat and runny nose so took myself off to get tested this arvo. Hopefully, it's just the changeable Canberra spring weather and all the pollen. Not such great news for NZ though.

[Paxter]

6 hours ago, Wall Flower said:

A bit of a jump in the ACT today with 18 cases. I guess because we are out and about. I have a bit of a sore throat and runny nose so took myself off to get tested this arvo. Hopefully, it's just the changeable Canberra spring weather and all the pollen. Not such great news for NZ though.

Yeah it’s a bit much to expect the caseload to drop to zero when still a lot young people/children under 16 are unvaccinated, plus people are interacting again. But the ACT has an impressive firewall in place.

[Wall Flower]

On 11/6/2021 at 11:53 PM, Paxter said:

Yeah it’s a bit much to expect the caseload to drop to zero when still a lot young people/children under 16 are unvaccinated, plus people are interacting again. But the ACT has an impressive firewall in place.

We hit 95 % double dosed for aged 12 and over today! For obvious reasons, current cases seem to be related to COVID spread in a couple of primary schools. In other good news (for me at least), I had my test at 4 pm yesterday and I was texted at 3 am this morning with a negative result. Incredibly fast work, even if the ping did wake me up in the middle of the night.

[Paxter]

Interesting story surfacing out of NSW with the Governor being the subject of bullying allegations. It’s good that accountability mechanisms are in place and hopefully justice is served (though you can argue the toss of the coin re: transparency or lack there of).

Here in Canada, the GG was rightfully dismissed for substantiated bullying.