Aussies and NZers: Jabs, Jobs and (grounded) Jets

[Jeor]

Glad Djoker won't be let in. As has been mentioned it's a political issue, I'm sure this type of thing could have been resolved behind closed doors. As it is, it makes Australia look pretty silly to not be able to coordinate things between the federal and state governments and Tennis Australia.

It was probably inevitable that someone in my family would get it, but my mum has now contracted COVID. Thinks she's okay and waited 3 hours in line for a PCR test to confirm her RAT positive. So far Dad's fine and hasn't got it, but who knows over the next few days. They're in their late 60s and in reasonably good health, double vaxxed, so hopefully it won't be anything serious.

On another note, I'm quite annoyed that my Moderna booster has now been cancelled twice. First, I booked it at Hornsby hospital through the NSW Health hub. On the day that I received the automated reminder that I had it in the next few days, I then later received another automated email saying my appointment had been cancelled "for a variety of reasons". Hornsby Hospital now is no longer listed as an option for boosters so I can only assume that they've become a treating hospital for COVID and aren't offering vaccinations anymore.

So I got onto booking at a local pharmacy and was due to have the booster tomorrow. However, they just rang me and said that they're out of stock and won't be getting anymore for the next two weeks and have put me off until the 23rd.

As a teacher who has to go back to meetings/planning on the 17th, I hoped to have been boosted by now but it appears there are troubles with supply. I'd considered going to the Olympic Park vaccination hub but not much of a fan of waiting in line for hours standing in a crowd of likely infected people. I've looked around and found another appointment for next week which I'll have to travel an hour across the city for, but this has not been a particularly edifying experience!

[Free Northman Reborn]

42 minutes ago, Jeor said:

Glad Djoker won't be let in. As has been mentioned it's a political issue, I'm sure this type of thing could have been resolved behind closed doors. As it is, it makes Australia look pretty silly to not be able to coordinate things between the federal and state governments and Tennis Australia.

It was probably inevitable that someone in my family would get it, but my mum has now contracted COVID. Thinks she's okay and waited 3 hours in line for a PCR test to confirm her RAT positive. So far Dad's fine and hasn't got it, but who knows over the next few days. They're in their late 60s and in reasonably good health, double vaxxed, so hopefully it won't be anything serious.

On another note, I'm quite annoyed that my Moderna booster has now been cancelled twice. First, I booked it at Hornsby hospital through the NSW Health hub. On the day that I received the automated reminder that I had it in the next few days, I then later received another automated email saying my appointment had been cancelled "for a variety of reasons". Hornsby Hospital now is no longer listed as an option for boosters so I can only assume that they've become a treating hospital for COVID and aren't offering vaccinations anymore.

So I got onto booking at a local pharmacy and was due to have the booster tomorrow. However, they just rang me and said that they're out of stock and won't be getting anymore for the next two weeks and have put me off until the 23rd.

As a teacher who has to go back to meetings/planning on the 17th, I hoped to have been boosted by now but it appears there are troubles with supply. I'd considered going to the Olympic Park vaccination hub but not much of a fan of waiting in line for hours standing in a crowd of likely infected people. I've looked around and found another appointment for next week which I'll have to travel an hour across the city for, but this has not been a particularly edifying experience!

Australian Tall Poppy Syndrome is a real thing. Of COURSE people of great achievement should be treated differently from Bruce Bogan off the street. 

Go win 20 Grand Slams then you too can get that special treatment. Meritocracy, folks. 

Branch Covidians absolutely do suffer from Mass Formation Psychosis. Reactions have gone beyond tribal.

Ridiculous.

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

26 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Australian Tall Poppy Syndrome is a real thing. Of COURSE people of great achievement should be treated differently from Bruce Bogan off the street. 

Go win 20 Grand Slams then you too can get that special treatment. Meritocracy, folks. 

Branch Covidians absolutely do suffer from Mass Formation Psychosis. Reactions have gone beyond tribal.

Ridiculous.

 

You have literally said no one should limit or regulation the firearms you own because maybe a horde of barbarians could hypothetically attack your family, especially if you're in a situation where society breaks down. Who are you to judge people's reaction to a real global pandemic? And the hypocrisy is over a tennis player you really like. FFS. That's what's ridiculous. 

[Free Northman Reborn]

4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

You have literally said no one should limit or regulation the firearms you own because maybe a horde of barbarians could hypothetically attack your family, especially if you're in a situation where society breaks down. Who are you to judge people's reaction to a real global pandemic? And the hypocrisy is over a tennis player you really like. FFS. That's what's ridiculous. 

Zero hypocrisy. Covid panic is stupid.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

^^^

Australia, meet Murika! 

[Impmk2]

1 hour ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Zero hypocrisy. Covid panic is stupid.

Once again you really have very, very little idea about the situation outside your own country.

No one is panicking about Djokovic's vaccination status. Everyone knows in the current situation frankly it doesn't matter one iota. Australia is getting 70,000 covid infections per day and climbing. Adjusted to population that's 1.4 million / day on a US scale. A few states have masking and indoor capacity mandates but aside from that (outside of WA) there's basically no restrictions and the vast majority of the population is just going about life as normal. Hell a couple weeks ago we were more open to international travel than the US was (we reopened to southern Africa before most of the world did in mid-December).

But still, one of the few universal restrictions is vaccination for incoming international travellers. That's shared by many countries including the EU. We can argue if that makes sense - tbh it really doesn't do much any more - it probably the only really makes a difference as far as the very small chance of potentially further adding to an already overloaded hospital system.

But that rule is in place. So it plays really poorly when some rich asshole can seemingly step around the requirement seemingly by virtue of being able to hit a ball over a net better than other people. The current right-wing government, being reasonably populist, and this being an election year, is willing to try to win some votes with this.

[Free Northman Reborn]

13 minutes ago, Impmk2 said:

Once again you really have very, very little idea about the situation outside your own country.

No one is panicking about Djokovic's vaccination status. Everyone knows in the current situation frankly it doesn't matter one iota. Australia is getting 70,000 covid infections per day and climbing. Adjusted to population that's 1.4 million / day on a US scale. A few states have masking and indoor capacity mandates but aside from that (outside of WA) there's basically no restrictions and the vast majority of the population is just going about life as normal. Hell a couple weeks ago we were more open to international travel than the US was (we reopened to southern Africa before most of the world did in mid-December).

But still, one of the few universal restrictions is vaccination for incoming international travellers. That's shared by many countries including the EU. We can argue if that makes sense - tbh it really doesn't do much any more - it probably the only really makes a difference as far as the very small chance of potentially further adding to an already overloaded hospital system.

But that rule is in place. So it plays really poorly when some rich asshole can seemingly step around the requirement seemingly by virtue of being able to hit a ball over a net better than other people. The current right-wing government, being reasonably populist, and this being an election year, is willing to try to win some votes with this.

As the saying goes: The problem with Australia is not that it is run by the descendants of prisoners, but that it is run by the descendants of prison guards.

 

[Impmk2]

3 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Go win 20 Grand Slams then you too can get that special treatment. Meritocracy, folks. 

Missed this - In a meritocracy the rich and powerful don't have to follow the rules? So everyone is unequal under the law? Isn't that exactly the opposite of a meritocratic society?

You've actually hit the nail on the head here, ironically in the opposite way than you intended. Special treatment and the feeling of unfairness under the law is exactly why so many Australians have a problem with it.

(and this actually rather neatly illustrates why meritocracy is a load of shit.)

 

55 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

As the saying goes: The problem with Australia is not that it is run by the descendants of prisoners, but that it is run by the descendants of prison guards.

Because no where else do people have a problem with elites playing by their own rules.

[mnedel]

1 hour ago, Impmk2 said:

Missed this - In a meritocracy the rich and powerful don't have to follow the rules? So everyone is unequal under the law? Isn't that exactly the opposite of a meritocratic society?

You've actually hit the nail on the head here, ironically in the opposite way than you intended. Special treatment and the feeling of unfairness under the law is exactly why so many Australians have a problem with it.

(and this actually rather neatly illustrates why meritocracy is a load of shit.)

 

Because no where else do people have a problem with elites playing by their own rules.

No, the rules should be the same for everyone. The problem is that Australian prime minister admitted in an interview that Djokovic is being targeted, that they are specifically interrogating him and not the other exempt players who entered the country before him without issue with the same type of visa. So, the rules are in fact not the same for everyone and Djokovic is basically being unfairly prosecuted for political gain. I am neutral regarding Djokovic and I overwhelmingly support vaccines and would like them to be mandatory for everyone, but I also view what is happening right now in Australia as a disgrace. It would have been fine if the rule was that no one without a vaccine can enter Australia and, therefore, Djokovic can’t come, end of story. But the Australian government decided to allow exemptions. Djokovic (and 30 other players) applied for an exemption as is their legal right. The anonymized documents were examined by two panels of independent medical experts appointed by the Australian government and Djokovic (along 6 others) was granted an exemption. And while the main is the air, this blows up in the media (note that no one is mentioning the other players) and the government decides it can use this for scoring some points ahead of elections. Djokovic is basically being made into a scapegoat. The idea that the government can just arbitrarily decide to publicly manhandle, target someone for cheap political gain and that the masses would eat it hook and sinker, and even cheer, leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Especially since the government is 100% to blame for the current fiasco. It is all a political farce. 

[karaddin]

My opinion is that there shouldn't be the need for an exemption at this point for the reasons Impmk2 already laid out, and think this whole thing is down to a conservative PM thinking he can get a cheap win out of it - ironically FN has been a fan of Morrison in the past. Fuck this idea that he should get special exemptions due to who he is though. Claiming that's tall poppy syndrome certainly doesn't rank among the more intelligent things you've said.

I'm unclear on whether the exemption in question is an exemption on needing to be vaccinated to enter (presumably due to recent infection granting the immune response) which seems above board if those are a thing we grant, or claiming a medical contraindication to the vaccination in which case that sounds like a pile of shit. The main issue on the exemption front would be if lower ranked players were unable to claim the same thing he was.

I actually do think behaving like this is really shitty behaviour from a foreign affairs perspective, but again - FN was singing Morrisons praise for pissing off the French which was a lot worse, so not really sure he's got much ground to stand on for this being poor form.

[Impmk2]

1 hour ago, mnedel said:

No, the rules should be the same for everyone. The problem is that Australian prime minister admitted in an interview that Djokovic is being targeted, that they are specifically interrogating him and not the other exempt players who entered the country before him without issue with the same type of visa. So, the rules are in fact not the same for everyone and Djokovic is basically being unfairly prosecuted for political gain. I am neutral regarding Djokovic and I overwhelmingly support vaccines and would like them to be mandatory for everyone, but I also view what is happening right now in Australia as a disgrace. It would have been fine if the rule was that no one without a vaccine can enter Australia and, therefore, Djokovic can’t come, end of story. But the Australian government decided to allow exemptions. Djokovic (and 30 other players) applied for an exemption as is their legal right. The anonymized documents were examined by two panels of independent medical experts appointed by the Australian government and Djokovic (along 6 others) was granted an exemption. And while the main is the air, this blows up in the media (note that no one is mentioning the other players) and the government decides it can use this for scoring some points ahead of elections. Djokovic is basically being made into a scapegoat. The idea that the government can just arbitrarily decide to publicly manhandle, target someone for cheap political gain and that the masses would eat it hook and sinker, and even cheer, leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Especially since the government is 100% to blame for the current fiasco. It is all a political farce. 

This is massively over simplified. It was 26 players, a handful were granted exemptions. It was a Victorian state government panel and tennis Australia panel. There was not a federal government panel, and immigration is a federal government issue - the state government has no authority to grant an international border exemption unless there was another agreement which hasn't come to light. I've summed it up on the previous page.

No argument that this got politicised and is a terrible look. He shouldn't have been granted an exemption in the first place - huge public perception of favouritism and huge outcry. Hence the current situation. 

Edit: I suggest you go back and reread the thread. I was the first person to bring up that this has become more about politics and votes.

My comments you quoted were more about FNRs bizarre definition of meritocracy, and the reason for the public outcry (perception of special treatment by the exemption panel).

[Impmk2]

3 minutes ago, karaddin said:

 

I'm unclear on whether the exemption in question is an exemption on needing to be vaccinated to enter (presumably due to recent infection granting the immune response) which seems above board if those are a thing we grant, or claiming a medical contraindication to the vaccination in which case that sounds like a pile of shit. The main issue on the exemption front would be if lower ranked players were unable to claim the same thing he was.

 

This is the key question.

I mean the big issue here though is the perception of him getting favourable treatment by the exemption panel. It doesn't really matter if that isn't the case if it doesn't pass the pub test. Huge number of people are going to be seriously angry. If Djokovic does manage to get through on appeal he's going to need some pretty heavy security. 

[Free Northman Reborn]

1 hour ago, karaddin said:

My opinion is that there shouldn't be the need for an exemption at this point for the reasons Impmk2 already laid out, and think this whole thing is down to a conservative PM thinking he can get a cheap win out of it - ironically FN has been a fan of Morrison in the past. Fuck this idea that he should get special exemptions due to who he is though. Claiming that's tall poppy syndrome certainly doesn't rank among the more intelligent things you've said.

I'm unclear on whether the exemption in question is an exemption on needing to be vaccinated to enter (presumably due to recent infection granting the immune response) which seems above board if those are a thing we grant, or claiming a medical contraindication to the vaccination in which case that sounds like a pile of shit. The main issue on the exemption front would be if lower ranked players were unable to claim the same thing he was.

I actually do think behaving like this is really shitty behaviour from a foreign affairs perspective, but again - FN was singing Morrisons praise for pissing off the French which was a lot worse, so not really sure he's got much ground to stand on for this being poor form.

Lol. Hang on. Is your argument that because I supported Morrison’s stance on one issue (the nuclear submarine debacle), I should support his actions in relation to EVERY OTHER issue by default, however unrelated?

Now THAT is the epitome of the tribalist nature of the discourse we are facing in today’s society. Back your faction, no matter the issue?

Nope. I don’t subscribe to that, thank you very much. That is intellectually poor.

[karaddin]

My point was that your logic is inconsistent because it's actually irrelevant, your perceived ends justifies whatever you say in the moment.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

5 minutes ago, karaddin said:

My point was that your logic is inconsistent because it's actually irrelevant, your perceived ends justifies whatever you say in the moment.

Lol, this is the same guy that says he needs a gun on him at all times because someone might punch him and he could die from that. Don't seek logic from him.

[karaddin]

5 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Lol, this is the same guy that says he needs a gun on him at all times because someone might punch him and he could die from that. Don't seek logic from him.

Oh I'm not, I know exactly what his guiding principal is and he doesn't tend to be shy about it. I just like to point it out for others when he tries to participate in the importation of his flavour of culture war into Aus

[Paxter]

Looks like Perignon is going to introduce more restrictions today. This is the beginning of the end of the “let it rip!” strategy, coming far too late I’m afraid to help a strained health care system.

EDs are barely coping here in Ontario, and that’s with some fairly common sense restrictions (e.g. density caps in venues) in place since about mid-December.

[Free Northman Reborn]

14 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Lol, this is the same guy that says he needs a gun on him at all times because someone might punch him and he could die from that. Don't seek logic from him.

Dude, look, seriously, you literally bring up some vague, firearm ownership related argument from years ago into every post I make - on any topic whatsoever. I will be looking out for it next time I dare to comment on Jon’s parentage or Winds’ expected release date.

I’m happy to debate firearm ownership in an appropriate thread, but I’m confident no one else is interested in getting side tracked into that discussion when discussing completely unrelated topics. So do us a favour and try to stay focused, will you.

[Impmk2]

Excellent story on the public mood here in Australia following the announcement of Djokovic's exemption, and why the government chose to take a hard line. This should hopefully put things into context for people overseas, the story really started months before the events of yesterday:

Quote

The furious public reaction to what many perceived as special treatment afforded to tennis star Novak Djokovic comes after two years of mounting resentment, fuelled by stories of very wealthy people and celebrities being granted exemptions from coronavirus rules.

...

From the beginning of the pandemic in 2020 the refrain of governments asking for public cooperation has been “we are all in this together”, and most Australians took the slogan to heart, dutifully following instructions.

Yet people began to see evidence that some of those with wealth and influence did not appear to behave as if they were “in this” with everyone else. Sceptics referred to the unity refrain as “a fantasy narrative” that ignored social inequalities that were, in fact, exacerbated by the crisis.

...

The Djokovic case has again brought this resentment to the surface, and it appears to cross political and demographic boundaries. A typical reader response to reports of the exemption was, “This is an absolute insult to every single vaccinated person in Australia.” Comments and polls in several major news outlets suggest overwhelming support for the cancellation of Djokovic’s visa.

 

[Free Northman Reborn]

14 hours ago, karaddin said:

My point was that your logic is inconsistent because it's actually irrelevant, your perceived ends justifies whatever you say in the moment.

Sorry, that makes no sense in the context of your original comment. You said that because I supported Morrison on the submarine issue, I did not have grounds to criticise him on the Djokovic issue. Which is nonsense, of course.

As it happens, I’m sure Albanese or “TaliDan” Andrews would have acted similarly in trying to ban Novak. So it’s a general comment on Australian Covid paranoia and the “Hey, Mom, why did Johnny get a sweet when I didn’t”, mentality.