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Aussies and NZers: Jabs, Jobs and (grounded) Jets


Paxter

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I must say, I'm cackling a bit about FM's accusations of Australian Covid paranoia. I've been maintaining a regular Skype correspondence with a friend (and fellow New Zealander) in Melbourne, and his continued mantra is "Yeah, Melbourne's given up caring".

One suspects FM would be truly, truly horrified by New Zealand's social attitudes towards the disease, and how to manage it.  

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14 minutes ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

I must say, I'm cackling a bit about FM's accusations of Australian Covid paranoia. I've been maintaining a regular Skype correspondence with a friend (and fellow New Zealander) in Melbourne, and his continued mantra is "Yeah, Melbourne's given up caring".

One suspects FM would be truly, truly horrified by New Zealand's social attitudes towards the disease, and how to manage it.  

Not sure what's so strange about being paranoid about disease during an actual pandemic anyway. Being paranoid about vaccinations that millions have taken, on the other hand .... Personally, I miss the fuck out of the hermit kingdom days. Secession must be looking good in Zero Cases WA right about now.

I haven't given up caring (though I'm in Canberra, not Melbourne) but I feel like some of our governments have (Scovid and Domicron, at least).

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The big difference with NZ though is that we don't have the disease running rampant throughout any part of the country (even BoP, an area where I have two - I would have said friends a year ago - acquaintances who are anti-vax). So we still have good cause to be very cautious about who gets over the border and how they get across the border, and how we are keeping things under control within the country. But when Omicron comes and if it spreads as easily as it has elsewhere (and there's nothing to suggest it won't) it may end up making a nonsense of many of our measures, which if retained will be for purely political rather than public health measures. For instance there will probably be little point in vax-pass conferring any benefits. Limited gathering numbers and distancing may be needed regarded of vax status, so rather than ditching vax-pass to allow the un-vaxed to do more, it will be eliminating vax-pass because even the vaxed will need to be limited in what they can do. Level playing field, but not in the way people will have wanted.

Personally I'd rather a meritocracy where people who have done great things for society get special treatment, rather than great things for themselves. Nor should the mere fact of wealth be regarded as a merit deserving of any special consideration.

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2 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

The big difference with NZ though is that we don't have the disease running rampant throughout any part of the country (even BoP, an area where I have two - I would have said friends a year ago - acquaintances who are anti-vax). So we still have good cause to be very cautious about who gets over the border and how they get across the border, and how we are keeping things under control within the country. But when Omicron comes and if it spreads as easily as it has elsewhere (and there's nothing to suggest it won't) it may end up making a nonsense of many of our measures, which if retained will be for purely political rather than public health measures. For instance there will probably be little point in vax-pass conferring any benefits. Limited gathering numbers and distancing may be needed regarded of vax status, so rather than ditching vax-pass to allow the un-vaxed to do more, it will be eliminating vax-pass because even the vaxed will need to be limited in what they can do. Level playing field, but not in the way people will have wanted.

Personally I'd rather a meritocracy where people who have done great things for society get special treatment, rather than great things for themselves. Nor should the mere fact of wealth be regarded as a merit deserving of any special consideration.

But organized sports are very important to allow dictatorships to look good! Also a great way for people to get bribes. Environmental damage is also a plus if pointless stadiums are built!

For the greater greed...good! I mean good!

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So now it seems that Mr Djokovic had applied for a visa in November, checking the box of the form saying he was either vaccinated or exempt from the vaccination requirement, having been told by Tennis Australia that past infection would be a valid reason for exemption*. This past infection would conveniently occur in December (after he applied for the visa), and around the time he was photographed at several high profile public events in Serbia looking completely healthy and unmasked. This is all completely normal and above board and we have no reason to question anything.

*Tennis Australia was actively lobbying the federal government to make this a reason for exemption and the government has released (leaked) several communications of them saying no it wasn't going to happen. Tennis Australia is claiming this is an incomplete record of what was said, but haven't released anything further themselves.

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Why do you assume the worst? Maybe he was hoping that something would change in the requirements or he wanted to take the vaccine at the last possible moment so it would be valid for Roland Garros too. Or maybe he would have given up on Australia altogether. If he wanted to cheat, and as you are claiming he had a false PCR report, then why not take a false vaccinee certificate and get into Australia with no issues. Both vaccine certificates and PCR reports are issued by the same government authority.  Private laboratories are forbidden from doing covid PCR tests in Serbia. All tests are done by one government run laboratory. Throughout the pandemic he was seen going out to various events, restaurants. I don’t approve of such behavior but it is nothing new for Djokovic. It’s quite conceivable he could have gotten infected in December especially as this is the time when omicron reached Serbia and almost no restrictions are in place. Also, the date of sampling is 16th December and it takes 24-48h to receive results. Those events were the next day so it is quite possible he wasn’t aware he was positive. Afterwards, he wasn’t seen in public for a week which is the minimum quarantine time in Serbia after testing positive. He had covid once before and had a very mild/asymptomatic disease so the fact he was looking ok doesn’t mean anything.  Also, unfortunately, in Serbia the attitude regarding covid is much more relaxed. You are not required to quarantine while waiting on results, especially if you have no symptoms. 

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Oh look it's entirely possible he caught covid in December. Shit is everywhere. But applying for a visa mid-November which is contingent on an infection mid-December raises some red flags.

He's also claiming correspondence with the home office a week ago and approval based on his responses to their questions. What the details of that were will probably be a big point in his appeal.

At the moment though tbh the people coming off looking worst out of this at the moment are Tennis Australia. They seem to have profoundly misread the public mood here, and have actively lobbied the government (presumably at both state and federal levels) to change Australia's border protection rules to run a tennis tournament. They then set up medical boards seemingly setting their own terms (and the letting players know the loopholes) to try to ensure they could get all the big names in.

Edit: Oh it also looks like the deadline for submissions to Tennis Australia's own medical exemption panel was December 10. So a positive PCR December 16 would have missed that one too.

This all just points to thumbs on scales for $$

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All I was saying is that you shouldn’t just jump straight to the worst possible explanation regarding Djokovic, when there are other, in my opinion, more plausible answers. Ultimately, we do not have the facts and are just speculating. I agree that numerous parties are to blame for the current situation. 

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16 minutes ago, mnedel said:

All I was saying is that you shouldn’t just jump straight to the worst possible explanation regarding Djokovic, when there are other, in my opinion, more plausible answers. Ultimately, we do not have the facts and are just speculating. I agree that numerous parties are to blame for the current situation. 

Don’t worry, we are just as mad (if not more) with TA and the government(s) as with Novak. Last year TA convinced the government to let in hundreds of foreign tennis players and entourages while Australian citizens (including myself) were being bumped off the few precious flights entering the country each week. Hopefully they get their just desserts now.

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5 hours ago, Impmk2 said:

Oh look it's entirely possible he caught covid in December. Shit is everywhere. But applying for a visa mid-November which is contingent on an infection mid-December raises some red flags.

He's also claiming correspondence with the home office a week ago and approval based on his responses to their questions. What the details of that were will probably be a big point in his appeal.

At the moment though tbh the people coming off looking worst out of this at the moment are Tennis Australia. They seem to have profoundly misread the public mood here, and have actively lobbied the government (presumably at both state and federal levels) to change Australia's border protection rules to run a tennis tournament. They then set up medical boards seemingly setting their own terms (and the letting players know the loopholes) to try to ensure they could get all the big names in.

Edit: Oh it also looks like the deadline for submissions to Tennis Australia's own medical exemption panel was December 10. So a positive PCR December 16 would have missed that one too.

This all just points to thumbs on scales for $$

Half of twitter comments focus on “the public mood”, whether something is a “good look”, or “the optics” of a situation.

Why should one’s personal convictions be influenced in any way by such considerations?  These terms are from the realm of marketing gurus, PR professionals and political spin doctors - a morally bankrupt class if anyone ever deserved such a description.

Be the captain of your own fate. The opinions of the mob be damned. That’s true bravery.

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I see that QLD is the first state to delay the start of the school year. Personally I think that’s quite sensible and balanced, provided it is a delay only and they stick to the new timetable.

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3 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Why should one’s personal convictions be influenced in any way by such considerations?  These terms are from the realm of marketing gurus, PR professionals and political spin doctors - a morally bankrupt class if anyone ever deserved such a description.

Because presumably Tennis Australia has an obligation under its own constitution to foster the development of tennis in Australia... which implies not pissing its own reputation away in this manner.

Anyway, an extremely wealthy fashion blogger has been whingeing about being unable to book a place in New Zealand's MIQ Quarantine System: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/kiwi-fashion-blogger-and-socialite-jaime-ridge-hits-out-at-jacinda-ardern-over-miq/5HH6ZJH23DWQZTWGTUSF7CTRLM/

Quite apart from the hilarity of labelling MIQ 'unconstitutional' (we're not the USA, dear), one suspects that she's not doing the country's Diaspora any favours, in terms of public image.

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Like to add it's entirely possible (probable even) that the Australian government has been talking out of both sides of it's mouth, had caved to TA months ago, and higher ups were well aware of the situation and had greenlit the whole thing, then backflipped when they saw tough on border votes in it. In which case the government may have just lost an election.

I have little sympathy for either this government or the plight of multi-millionaire sports people, so either way tomorrow will be popcorn time.

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8 minutes ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

I dunno if that hit Australian news but Novak Djokovic participated unmasked in events including photo shots with kids on the day after his lawyers claim he tested positive. 

What ever comes out of this I hope more people realize that guy is a complete and utter piece of shit.

But he won some big tennis tournaments so special treatment is owed to him by right, and who are we to deny him his rights.

2 hours ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

Because presumably Tennis Australia has an obligation under its own constitution to foster the development of tennis in Australia... which implies not pissing its own reputation away in this manner.

Anyway, an extremely wealthy fashion blogger has been whingeing about being unable to book a place in New Zealand's MIQ Quarantine System: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/kiwi-fashion-blogger-and-socialite-jaime-ridge-hits-out-at-jacinda-ardern-over-miq/5HH6ZJH23DWQZTWGTUSF7CTRLM/

Quite apart from the hilarity of labelling MIQ 'unconstitutional' (we're not the USA, dear), one suspects that she's not doing the country's Diaspora any favours, in terms of public image.

I wish she had spoken out about it almost 2 years ago, perhaps the govt could have been steered onto a more humane course that allowed citizens and residents into the country much more easily without risking a COVID blow out. She may have had some unique and inciteful perspective to offer. But she is only now speaking out about it when it affects her personally, when it is too late to turn that ship around. A shame people did not come forward with their good ideas much sooner.

Any relation to Matthew Ridge?

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14 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

But he won some big tennis tournaments so special treatment is owed to him by right, and who are we to deny him his rights.

Your sarcasm his probably spot on. :)

Peak sportspeople are quite often shitty humans their worship and any state based support for organized sports has always annoyed me to be honest so I'm biased. Tennis is probably not as bad as many other sports though which are safe heavens for sexism, racism and homophobia.

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34 minutes ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

I dunno if that hit Australian news but Novak Djokovic participated unmasked in events including photo shots with kids on the day after his lawyers claim he tested positive. 

What ever comes out of this I hope more people realize that guy is a complete and utter piece of shit.

You're just assuming of course that he knew he was positive at the time of the photos but I expect nothing less nowadays

 

Djokovic is a dick but this speculation is so damn stupid.

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23 minutes ago, lessthanluke said:

You're just assuming of course that he knew he was positive at the time of the photos but I expect nothing less nowadays

 

Djokovic is a dick but this speculation is so damn stupid.

An anti-measure person would not test without a reason. He has been outspoken against all measures since a long time although that might be more well known here than further away from his home country and is not one of your anti-vaxxers that follows all other rules without being forced to(which I have never encountered in RL anyway I'm just taking your word that they exist).

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2 minutes ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

An anti-measure person would not test without a reason. He has been outspoken against all measures since a long time although that might be more well known here than further away from his home country and is not one of your anti-vaxxers that follows all other rules without being forced to(which I have never encountered in RL anyway I'm just taking your word that they exist).

In your biased opinion.

Sports stars worldwide are testing constantly. He could have quite easily have tested in the 16th and not recieved his result for 2 or 3 days.

Just pure speculation on your part.

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6 minutes ago, lessthanluke said:

In your biased opinion.

Sports stars worldwide are testing constantly. He could have quite easily have tested in the 16th and not recieved his result for 2 or 3 days.

Just pure speculation on your part.

That is pro sport star biased speculation in your part and not in line at all with his pro-covid puplic personality. 

Also you can get test results in hours if you are willing to pay for it anyway.

But as this is getting too off topic let us agree to disagree. Us arguing will not change anything. :)

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