Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 Quote Heartsbane, the ancestral two-handed greatsword of House Tarly, currently in the possession of Lord Randyll Tarly. Lady Forlorn, the ancestral sword of House Corbray, currently in the possession of Ser Lyn Corbray. Longclaw, the ancestral Valyrian steel bastard sword of House Mormont. Currently in the possession of Jon Snow. Nightfall, the ancestral blade of House Harlaw and currently wielded by Ser Harras Harlaw. Oathkeeper, one of two Valyrian blades reforged by Tobho Mott from Ice. The blade was made for Ser Jaime Lannister, but he has given it to Brienne of Tarth for use in her quest to locate Sansa Stark. The blade was given its name, Oathkeeper, at that time. Red Rain, the sword of House Drumm, which was stolen by them in a raid.[19] Given the name and coloring, possibly the ancestral sword of House Reyne. Widow's Wail, one of two Valyrian blades reforged by Tobho Mott from Ice. Following Joffrey Baratheon's death, ownership of Widow's Wail has presumably passed to his younger brother, Tommen. The dagger with a dragonbone hilt wielded by Bran Stark's failed assassin, and currently in the possession of Petyr Baelish. Valyrian steel arakh owned by Caggo.[20] Valyrian steel axe reputedly possessed by House Celtigar.[21] These are all the known ones. Quote Blackfyre, the sword of Aegon I Targaryen. Carried by all Targaryen kings until Aegon IV, who gave it to his bastard Daemon, who rose in rebellion against the Targaryens, taking the sword's name for his house. Its whereabouts are currently unknown. Brightroar, the ancestral sword of House Lannister, lost when King Tommen II Lannister of the Rock sailed to Valyria and never returned. Dark Sister, the sword wielded by Visenya Targaryen. Its last known owner was Brynden "Bloodraven" Rivers. Lamentation, the ancestral sword of House Royce, lost in the Storming of the Dragonpit.[22] Orphan-Maker, the ancestral sword of House Roxton. Its last known owner was Lord Unwin Peake.[23] Truth, a Valyrian steel sword last carried by Moredo Rogare of Lys.[24] Vigilance, the ancestral sword of House Hightower. Its last known owner was Lord Ormund Hightower.[25] A great curved Valyrian steel blade with a dragonbone hilt, wielded by Sandoq the Shadow in 135 AC.[26] This raises a lot of questions. Number one, the last owner of Blackfyre was Aegor Rivers. When he died in the Disputed Lands, it most likely passed to the next captain of the Golden Company. If the Golden Company has it, why didn't they give it to Aegon? This would help raise his legitimacy thoroughly and help his cause a lot overall. There are no other plausible owners of Blackfyre imo, reply with any plausible theories about Blackfyre's whereabouts. Brightroar will not play a major role in the story but it is most likely at the bottom of the ocean near Valyria. Dark Sister is one of the interesting ones. It's last owner was Brynden Rivers which makes it highly likely it's in the cave with Brynden. If it is, what role will it play? Lamentation is also really interesting. It was lost during the Storming of the Dragonpit which means some idiotic peasant in KL probably has it or it's somewhere in Blackwater Bay. Orphan-Maker was last wielded by Unwin Peake, but Gormon Peake wields a mace during the Blackfyre Rebellion so where is Orphan-Maker?? Truth is a little irrelevant but I forgot what happens to Moredo Rogare. Vigilance is also interesting because in theory either Horbert Hightower or Unwin Peake but neither of them seems to have it. Is it just lying around Tumbleton? Sandoq is pretty badass but Idc what happens to his Valyrian blade. Quote There may be thousands of Valyrian steel blades remaining in the world, but in Westeros there are only 227 such weapons according to Archmaester Thurgood's Inventories, some of which have since been lost or have disappeared from recorded history. And also, how tf do we have 227 Valyrian steel blades and like 7 mentioned in the books? Is Thurgood bluffing or are people really this irresponsible with prized heirlooms and overpowered weapons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 I suspect the Archmaster could be operating on faulty data. I doubt he went to every hall in Westeros and inventoried their weaponry personally. One would presume his research was done via claims, word of mouth and written correspondence. If a VS sword is so prestigious I could see many houses claiming to have one when in reality it's just a fancied up regular sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targaryeninkingslanding Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 I have no info about the others, but I still maintain the claim that Longclaw is actually dark sister. all evidence is circumspect but... Jorah Mormont never mentions it or any valyrian steel blade that he left behind, not even when dany promises him a new one, yet he doesn't mention the lands he lost. Longclaw was in the possession of the commander of the knights watch, as was dark sister for bloodraven as lord commander. Jon's personal sigil, a white wolf, ascetically matches Bloodraven's sigil, the white dragon. Both blades are bastard swords. It has not been mentioned by bloodraven who does not have the physical capabilities to wield it anymore. The original pommel of the blade was destroyed in the fire. if faegon does have Blackfyre, it would be good symmetry for Jon to have dark sister. Mormont said the blade "Was once" called longclaw, not "is" called it by him. he also didn't seem to use it. its not inconceivable that his pet raven is controlled by Bloodraven, so some influence may be exerted on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 24 minutes ago, Targaryeninkingslanding said: Both blades are bastard swords. Dark Sister is actually a longsword, so.....that rules out Dark Sister. Plus, I doubt House Mormont has the wealth to hire one of the rare smiths who know how to reforge VS. Which raises the question, how in seven hells did HOUSE MORMONT, which is stated to be not very wealthy or have many natural resources, EVER have enough coin to purchase a VS bastard sword? Any theories, besides Dark Sister? Here's the link of Dark Sister in the wiki: https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Dark_Sister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Jaenara Belarys said: Dark Sister is actually a longsword, so.....that rules out Dark Sister. Plus, I doubt House Mormont has the wealth to hire one of the rare smiths who know how to reforge VS. Which raises the question, how in seven hells did HOUSE MORMONT, which is stated to be not very wealthy or have many natural resources, EVER have enough coin to purchase a VS bastard sword? Any theories, besides Dark Sister? Here's the link of Dark Sister in the wiki: https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Dark_Sister There's a lot about Longclaw that doesn't quite add up. No other Mormont ever mentions it. As touchy as Jorah is about his pride, you'd think he'd have mentioned it at one point, especially when the subject came up in the form of Dany promising him a Valyrian steel sword. But as you say, Dark Sister has different dimensions. I thought about perhaps it being Blackfyre but that gets sketchy. I suppose it's not impossible Bloodraven took it from Bittersteel at Redgrass Field but that seems sketchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 You would think there would be more spears. I gues daggers could be converted back and forth. Is it just the “stigma” of owning a speaR? So much cheaper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 8 minutes ago, Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe said: You would think there would be more spears. I gues daggers could be converted back and forth. Is it just the “stigma” of owning a speaR? So much cheaper I could imagine a Dornish lord doing such, but swords are more commonly used for ancestral weapons. 14 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said: There's a lot about Longclaw that doesn't quite add up. No other Mormont ever mentions it. As touchy as Jorah is about his pride, you'd think he'd have mentioned it at one point, especially when the subject came up in the form of Dany promising him a Valyrian steel sword. But as you say, Dark Sister has different dimensions. I thought about perhaps it being Blackfyre but that gets sketchy. I suppose it's not impossible Bloodraven took it from Bittersteel at Redgrass Field but that seems sketchy. What happened to the rubies, if such a thing happened? I think there's rubies on the hilt and pommel, aren't there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egged Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 So I always say that Daemon slashing at the weirwood tree at Harrenhal is supposed to be far more meaningful in the lore or overall story than just marking the days. The tree has never healed from those slashes; it bleeds every spring. Darksister is said to have "a taste for blood", and the weirwood are sometimes fed blood (whether this is done out of superstitious reasoning or for some specific end is unknown). Nissa Nissa's story claims her soul went into the sword (not Darksister, just noting this point about that story). And the greenseers join the trees when they die. Daemon's body was never found, and he died near Harrenhal and the Isle of Faces. Addam Velaryon also supposedly consulted the greenseers at the island, which I also find extremely suspicious for George to include in F&B considering how mysterious the place is (and we have no idea what that was about), especially since AFAIK the greenseers are all in the trees at this point, I really don't think they are still alive in the flesh. What are the implications? I don't know, but I think there is one. Whoever ends up with the sword, I think the important point will be that it has "a taste for blood", and that this will possibly end up tying in to greenseer blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said: I could imagine a Dornish lord doing such, but swords are more commonly used for ancestral weapons. Bah! Never thought that. You’d think the Martells Would several different kinds considering their wealth. How many VS weapons in the south just Dawn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 19 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said: What happened to the rubies, if such a thing happened? I think there's rubies on the hilt and pommel, aren't there? Well the hilt and pommel were damaged in the fire in the Lord Commander's tower and had to be reworked before Mormont gave it to Jon. The rubies would have to have been plucked by Jeor. Maybe he stashed them away in Castle Black somewhere, maybe he had them on his person when he was murdered, maybe he gave them to Aemon. It's never mentioned but it would be neat if the rubies were worked into the wolf eyes of the new pomel. Who knows? The theory has holes in it for sure, but... too many weird questions around Longclaw as Jeor presented it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers Posted October 1, 2021 Author Share Posted October 1, 2021 2 hours ago, Lord Lannister said: I suppose it's not impossible Bloodraven took it from Bittersteel at Redgrass Field but that seems sketchy. Not possible, bittersteel has possession of the sword till his death. We know this because he refused to give it to Daemon II Blackfyre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 Just now, Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers said: Not possible, bittersteel has possession of the sword till his death. We know this because he refused to give it to Daemon II Blackfyre. There could be a very basic reason he didn't give it. Or admit to not having it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers Posted October 1, 2021 Author Share Posted October 1, 2021 6 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said: There could be a very basic reason he didn't give it. Or admit to not having it. He didn’t think Daemon II had potential, Haegon had Blackfyre after Daemon II Quote Bittersteel took Blackfyre with him in exile to the Free Cities, where he eventually founded the sellsword Golden Company. Aegor refused to give the Valyrian sword to Daemon II Blackfyre for the ill-fated Second Blackfyre Rebellion,[20] and Lord Ambrose Butterwelldoubted Daemon's potential after learning he lacked Blackfyre.[20] Possession of Blackfyre after Bittersteel is unknown, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers said: He didn’t think Daemon II had potential, Haegon had Blackfyre after Daemon II I'm aware of Bittersteel's stated reason. I'm just not considering him the most reliable source when it comes to his pride being pricked by Bloodraven of all people. I can't see him ever admitting that he let Bloodraven take the sword. Haegon was never actually stated to have Blackfyre. Your own quote said after Bittersteel's possession it was lost. I'm just saying it's possible he represented himself as having the sword still without actually showing it, so of course he couldn't give Daemon what he didn't have. That would explain why it wasn't used in the subsequent rebellions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers Posted October 1, 2021 Author Share Posted October 1, 2021 Just now, Lord Lannister said: I'm aware of Bittersteel's stated reason. I'm just not considering him the most reliable source when it comes to his pride being pricked by Bloodraven of all people. I can't see him ever admitting that he let Bloodraven take the sword. Haegon was never actually stated to have Blackfyre. Your own quote said after Bittersteel's possession it was lost. I'm just saying it's possible he represented himself as having the sword still without actually showing it, so of course he couldn't give Daemon what he didn't have. That would explain why it wasn't used in the subsequent rebellions. Fair point, but what happened to Blackfyre then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers Posted October 1, 2021 Author Share Posted October 1, 2021 Just now, Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers said: Fair point, but what happened to Blackfyre then? It’s gotta be the coolest weapon ever with the coolest name too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers Posted October 1, 2021 Author Share Posted October 1, 2021 Just now, Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers said: Fair point, but what happened to Blackfyre then? Are we suggesting that Bloodraven has both Blackfyre and Dark Sister? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 Just now, Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers said: Are we suggesting that Bloodraven has both Blackfyre and Dark Sister? As I mentioned earlier in the thread, a lot about Longclaw doesn't add up the way Jeor describes it. It's possible Bloodraven could've left it at Castle Black. Either it was passed down from Lord Commander to Lord Commander or it was secreted away in the Lord Commander's Tower until the fire. I just can't see Jorah refusing to sell the sword at his slaving worse when Tywin was offering a fortune for a VS sword, but Jeor just causally handing this family heirloom of centuries to some kid he just met rather than actually leaving it to the family as Jorah did. It's not a perfect theory as still begs to question why Jeor is giving the sword to Jon. This would suggest he knew something about Jon's birth though. Not airtight but thought provoking. And still doesn't explain what happened to Dark Sister. Maybe he still has it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loose Bolt Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 3 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said: Which raises the question, how in seven hells did HOUSE MORMONT, which is stated to be not very wealthy or have many natural resources, EVER have enough coin to purchase a VS bastard sword? Any theories, besides Dark Sister? In my head canon there was lucky Ironborn raider who gained VS sword by killing it's previous owner. But later he or one of his descendants lost his head and his sword when he tried to raid Bear Island. So his killer gained nice new sword by killing that unlucky raider. Or Mormonts paid iron price instead of golden one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers Posted October 1, 2021 Author Share Posted October 1, 2021 31 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said: As I mentioned earlier in the thread, a lot about Longclaw doesn't add up the way Jeor describes it. It's possible Bloodraven could've left it at Castle Black. Either it was passed down from Lord Commander to Lord Commander or it was secreted away in the Lord Commander's Tower until the fire. I just can't see Jorah refusing to sell the sword at his slaving worse when Tywin was offering a fortune for a VS sword, but Jeor just causally handing this family heirloom of centuries to some kid he just met rather than actually leaving it to the family as Jorah did. It's not a perfect theory as still begs to question why Jeor is giving the sword to Jon. This would suggest he knew something about Jon's birth though. Not airtight but thought provoking. And still doesn't explain what happened to Dark Sister. Maybe he still has it. What do you think happened to Blackfyre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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