No Time to Die (spoilers)

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

I just got back from the cinema and couldn’t find a thread in the most recent two pages, so here we go. Big spoilers follow.

 

Brilliant, I really liked it. A bit too early to say if I liked it more than Casino Royale, but it was excellent.

And they killed him! I was surprised, because I thought the reason why Danny Boyle quit was because he had wanted to kill him off but the studio wouldn’t let him.

One gripe with it is that I don’t know what Safin’s plan was. Acquire weapon… then what? Kill people? OK. I didn’t get the motivation.

[Lord Varys]

The movie was a tidbit long, but I also liked it very much. And yes, both Felix and Bond die. And it works exceptionally well. Since they killed Bond, I could also forgive them for destroying SPECTRE (seemingly completely) and also killing Blofeld.

Yes, Safin's ultimate motivation I didn't get, either. Effectively, he took over/formed a new kind of SPECTRE organization - which is kind of weird and superficial, since it may have made more sense for him to take over Blofeld's organization (after all, Blofeld and White killed his family, so it would have been sufficient revenge to get rid of them). At least, that's what I concluded from the fact that those unknown people were approaching the island who wanted to buy the super weapon. That's the kind of thing Blofeld would have done, too.

But why he wanted to kill a lot of people and what the point of the aftermath was is completely unclear. Probably some kind of culling the human population for super villain reasons ... but you do have to explain this kind of thing or else it is just pointless.

The character's personal motivation and his mad self-interpretation of being sort of like Bond work pretty well, actually. How he as a lonely guy with, apparently, just two major allies ever acquired the skill and knowledge to do what he did is unfortunately left unexplained. I think the guy may have worked better as Madeleine's brother or half-brother and a leading operative of SPECTRE who wants to avenge his father in the wake of what Blofeld did in the last movie.

I still think, though, Blofeld should have gotten away in the Blofeld manner in SPECTRE, so that the last movie would be about the last stand between the foster brothers. Blofeld fucking with Bond to the degree he did in the SPECTRE would have worked better if he had him dealt a really devastating blow there. It is also a pity that they didn't have Christoph Waltz earlier in those movies. It would have been much better if he had been there as a shadowy figure from Casino Royal onwards, rather than there being a clumsy retcon in SPECTRE of him being the one behind everything.

As for the new movie - I also liked all the allusions to the earlier movies - the island is reminiscent both of Dr. No's island and Blofeld's base in You Only Live Twice.

Oh, and really great that Bond retires on Jamaica and that's not really mentioned explicitly. It's effectively confirmed in the credits - considering Ian Fleming's connection with the island this really was the place.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

I wish that every movie director had to fill a form with two questions: "1. Are you Francis Ford Coppola? 2. Are you making 'The Godfather'?". If the answer to either of those is negative, then the movie can't exceed two hour limit.

This trend of writing a 90 minutes worth of screenplay and padding it with an hour of fluff to make a statement: "we are making a serious blockbuster here!", is positively exhausting.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

I’ve since realised that the film isn’t out in America until this Friday, hence the quiet in the thread.

Neither I nor my girlfriend noticed the length, actually, even though I’d known that was a criticism of it before I’d seen it. We found it tiring to watch, but that was because we were in the front row due to lack of seat availability and it was a really big screen, so you did have to move your head slightly to keep track of everything.

[sifth]

I was so confused by Safin's plan. Was he trying to infect everyone on the planet with nanomachines, so he could turn the world into his own personal Death Note, or something like that.

[Slurktan]

I loved that it was essentially an inverse telling of On Her Majesty's Secret Service, including the use of both songs from that movie, as well as repeated shots of the same cliff side road that Mrs. Bond died on.

[Lord Varys]

On 10/9/2021 at 1:46 PM, sifth said:

I was so confused by Safin's plan. Was he trying to infect everyone the planet with nanomachines, so he could turn the world into his own personal Death Note, or something like that.

Something like that. I guess they wanted him to be a super villain without ever bothering to explain his ultimate motivation/goal. The movie sort of has Bond going through the motions of things, which means there must be a big bad, but since he is already retired things are no longer what they once were. We get that feeling all the time, when Bond meets Felix, when Bond meets M, even when Bond meets Blofeld.

Still, though, the fact that we get Safin's personal connection with Madeleine makes this kind of weird. We get a lot about his personal obsession with Bond and his connection with the woman, but nothing about why he wants to kill a lot of innocent people or why he wants to form/run another SPECTRE-like organization.

The motivation he has we understand is him wanting revenge for his family. The rest is just weird.

10 hours ago, Slurktan said:

I loved that it was essentially an inverse telling of On Her Majesty's Secret Service, including the use of both songs from that movie, as well as repeated shots of the same cliff side road that Mrs. Bond died on.

I didn't catch that, but there were quite a few allusions to the old movies.

[williamjm]

I saw it earlier today. I liked it, I thought it was a good swansong for Daniel Craig's Bond. Before watching the film I wouldn't really have expected them to actually kill him off but I think the ending works better than a 'happily ever after' for Bond. I agree Safin was one of the weaker elements, the personal vendetta and connection with Madeleine work but his motivations in the final section seem underexplained. This might be the first time in cinematic history an audience has wished a Bond villain had a bit more exposition to explain their plan. Other than that I thought the plot worked well enough and better than the overcomplicated Spectre.

The returning actors all do solid jobs as expected. I liked Lashanna Lynch as the new 007, although the film wasn't really about her, and Ana de Armas definitely stole a couple of scenes during her brief appearance.

On 10/2/2021 at 12:21 AM, Lord Varys said:

I still think, though, Blofeld should have gotten away in the Blofeld manner in SPECTRE, so that the last movie would be about the last stand between the foster brothers. Blofeld fucking with Bond to the degree he did in the SPECTRE would have worked better if he had him dealt a really devastating blow there. It is also a pity that they didn't have Christoph Waltz earlier in those movies. It would have been much better if he had been there as a shadowy figure from Casino Royal onwards, rather than there being a clumsy retcon in SPECTRE of him being the one behind everything.

I think Christoph Waltz was born to play a Bond villain, it's a shame he didn't get a better written role.

[Rhom]

We are going on Sunday… my local cinema only has four showings of Bond.

They have 8 of Addams Family 2.

They have 7 of Venom 2.

And a blue billion showings of Halloween Kills.

I guess I should set my expectations accordingly.

Taking my son.  It will be his first Bond movie.  I would like to find time to introduce him via Casino Royale at the very least before we go, but I don’t think we will have time.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 hours ago, Rhom said:

Taking my son.  It will be his first Bond movie.  I would like to find time to introduce him via Casino Royale at the very least before we go, but I don’t think we will have time.

His first Bond film can't be the one he dies in, FFS dude. 

[Rhom]

7 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

His first Bond film can't be the one he dies in, FFS dude. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

5 hours ago, Rhom said:

Why not watch Casino Royale with him tonight?

[Darryk]

I thoroughly enjoyed it, but had mixed feelings about the quality of the script. I feel like there was the potential for something great there but it feels like it might have been sliced and diced by the studio. 

I thought the Rami Malek character was wasted, they could have made him one of the more memorable villains but he was underused, and like others have said, his motivations weren't well fleshed out.

I knew there was a good chance they'd kill Bond, I think it had the intended emotional impact. I certainly feel sad about it.

Just wondering where they go now; they've set up this great Daniel Craig universe with Ralph Fiennes' M, Ben Whishaw's Q and Naomie Harris' Moneypenny, it would be a shame to throw it all away and start again. Maybe they'll go the route of the popular fan theory where James Bond becomes a codename passed from one agent to the next.

Need to see it a few more times before I decide where I rate it on the Bond scale; on first viewing I wouldn't put it above Casino Royale or Skyfall.

[Rhom]

2 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Why not watch Casino Royale with him tonight?

We’re going to be watching UK v Georgia here in a bit.  We may have time to fit that in later; but it’s no sure thing.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

24 minutes ago, Rhom said:

We’re going to be watching UK v Georgia here in a bit.  We may have time to fit that in later; but it’s no sure thing.

So his lead in to Bond dying is Georgia fucking UK up? What are you doing to this child?

[RumHam]

2 hours ago, Darryk said:

Just wondering where they go now; they've set up this great Daniel Craig universe with Ralph Fiennes' M, Ben Whishaw's Q and Naomie Harris' Moneypenny, it would be a shame to throw it all away and start again. Maybe they'll go the route of the popular fan theory where James Bond becomes a codename passed from one agent to the next.

They should at least try to keep it going with the new 007. Even if it's just a New Coke kinda thing so they can hype up bringing back Bond down the line. Do a movie centered on her and see how it does. 

When they do inevitably bring him back I'd love it if the movies were period pieces set during the cold war. 

[williamjm]

2 hours ago, Darryk said:

Need to see it a few more times before I decide where I rate it on the Bond scale; on first viewing I wouldn't put it above Casino Royale or Skyfall.

I think Casino Royale is clearly the best of the Craig Bond films. I might have to watch it again to really judge it against Skyfall but it's clearly better than Quantum of Solace and Spectre.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

4 hours ago, Darryk said:

Maybe they'll go the route of the popular fan theory where James Bond becomes a codename passed from one agent to the next.

Need to see it a few more times before I decide where I rate it on the Bond scale; on first viewing I wouldn't put it above Casino Royale or Skyfall.

Two Bond movies killed the idea of a codename, one which I always was in favor of. On Her Majesty's Secret Service surprise ending could be ignored, but Skyfall makes it clear that James Bond is not an alias. Personally I was always for killing Craig, and having the final scene be M talking to someone, asking if they're ready to serve Queen and country and what not, and it just cutting to Idris Elba. Black Bond, baby! 

[Lord Varys]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Two Bond movies killed the idea of a codename, one which I always was in favor of. On Her Majesty's Secret Service surprise ending could be ignored, but Skyfall makes it clear that James Bond is not an alias. Personally I was always for killing Craig, and having the final scene be M talking to someone, asking if they're ready to serve Queen and country and what not, and it just cutting to Idris Elba. Black Bond, baby! 

Idris Elba is far too old for Bond. They have to go with a younger Bond next time. Connery was only 32 when Dr. No came out in 1962, and Craig was not yet forty in 2006.

[Darryk]

13 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Two Bond movies killed the idea of a codename, one which I always was in favor of. On Her Majesty's Secret Service surprise ending could be ignored, but Skyfall makes it clear that James Bond is not an alias. Personally I was always for killing Craig, and having the final scene be M talking to someone, asking if they're ready to serve Queen and country and what not, and it just cutting to Idris Elba. Black Bond, baby! 

Well they could have Daniel Craig be a real James Bond but still have MI6 make the name an alias in his honor, or something.

I think Idris Elba would have been a great Bond in his time but is surely too old now. For a black Bond I'd go for Regé-Jean Page. If they just want someone who's not white I like Riz Ahmed as a candidate.