US Politics: A Game of Chicken (with Constituents lives)

[A True Kaniggit]

55 minutes ago, Mindwalker said:

And here I thought Colbert made it up!

The coin of a hammered eagle playing slots NEEDS to happen. 

[DMC]

5 minutes ago, Fez said:

Rounds also voted in favor at the end.

Yeah he was expected to.  It is interesting Romney voted no on the cloture.  Guess he's still stewing over those ~2012 battles.

[TrackerNeil]

17 hours ago, The Great Unwashed said:

There is a damn good argument to be made that the President is bound to borrow what Congress directs him to spend, debt ceiling be damned. Biden should be making that argument. It also has the added benefit of putting Republicans on the rhetorical defensive, because they’d be forced to take pro-active solutions and being on record in a lawsuit, for example, arguing that judges should allow the U.S. to default. They wouldn’t be able to score rhetorical points this way, which are the only points Republicans are able to score anymore with their entrenched positions.

Yup.

Also, one thing I learned from the Trump years is that Americans are remarkably unconcerned with norm-breaking, so long as the water's running and the lights are on. Mitch McConnell stole a freakin' Supreme Court seat from Obama, and most Americans never batted an eye! So I think Democrats should be more casual about the rules, because there's no divine referee keeping score.

[DireWolfSpirit]

Americans are quite down on Joe.

Biden’s approval rating has dropped to 38%, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released Wednesday. That’s down from 42% three weeks ago and from a high of 50% in mid-February.

Mr Biden really needs to turn this around before his aproval rating becomes irretrievable.

[IheartIheartTesla]

Have to wonder if that correlates to a general dissatisfaction with the Democrats themselves. Case in point, Virginia governor elections which appear to be pretty close.

I dont think anything is irretrievable, but a few wins before the end of the year would be nice.

[Zorral]

It feels weird to me, this claim of popularity drop.  Because he seems to me to be doing in many areas far better than I could have expected, particularly handling the damned rethuglicans, and the economy -- and actually making a huge difference with the pandemic, outside the Sturgis types over whom the federal government -- or any government it seems -- can hold any sway.  Only employers can, and that seems to be working in many areas.

I blame it on David Brooks.  He's baaaaaaaaaaaaaack from whatever rock he's been hiding under and throwing his wrong opinions around again, in the Atlantic and the NYT.  In his Atlantic piece he even admits he's always been wrong, while telling what's what again.  That's how I knew it was Brooks, even before I scrolled up to read the byline.  The piece came through as stupid and as wrong as all of Brooks always come through as stupid and wrong in all the same ways.  Why is this guy still being published by anybody?

[Kalbear]

1 minute ago, Zorral said:

It feels weird to me, this claim of popularity drop.  Because he seems to me to be doing in many areas far better than I could have expected, particularly handling the damned rethuglicans, and the economy -- and actually making a huge difference with the pandemic, outside the Sturgis types over whom the federal government -- or any government it seems -- can hold any sway.  Only employers can, and that seems to be working in many areas.

I don't think that's a good way to frame it, but I'm glad he's positive for you.

I think for a lot of people, they voted for Biden so that we could get out of the covid garbage, get vaccinated, get back to normal, stop dealing with the drama, and have a functional government.

Instead we've had cases rise over the summer, a return to covid restrictions, massive drama with vaccines here and abroad, and a number of gut punches for functional government:

• The disastrous Afghanistan withdrawal
• The bipartisan bill/reconciliation bill that seems to go nowhere except to cause fights
• Funding the government bullshit
• Funding the debt bullshit
• Immigration policies that continue to look just like Trump's 
• A massive problem of climate change rearing its head this summer for a whole lot of people - and continued slow playing it

To me, for a lot of people this points to the US government basically just sucking no matter who is in charge, and that goes largely at the feet of Biden. I don't happen  to think that that's all that fair for the most part for a lot of things, but fairness doesn't matter, only perception does - and the US has taken a beating in the last few months while Biden was in charge. 

[Kalbear]

Another thing that hurts in general is the framing of vaccine mandate success. Reporting in general has things like "hundreds of nurses and hospital staff to be dismissed" when they don't mention out of what. If they said things like 99% of all staff are complying with the mandate, I think it would go a long way to being positive. 

[Centrist Simon Steele]

5 hours ago, TrackerNeil said:

Yup.

Also, one thing I learned from the Trump years is that Americans are remarkably unconcerned with norm-breaking, so long as the water's running and the lights are on. Mitch McConnell stole a freakin' Supreme Court seat from Obama, and most Americans never batted an eye! So I think Democrats should be more casual about the rules, because there's no divine referee keeping score.

I don't know--I'd say a significant percentage of Americans batted an eye. We felt powerless to do anything about it.

[TrackerNeil]

1 minute ago, Centrist Simon Steele said:

I don't know--I'd say a significant percentage of Americans batted an eye. We felt powerless to do anything about it.

As far as I could tell, most Americans didn't care very much. Those that even knew what was happening might have clucked their tongues, but did they vote on it? Given how well Republicans did at the ballot box that year, I feel safe saying that the blockading of the Supreme Court by Mitch McConnell did not exactly move a lot of voters. Sad, but true.

[Fez]

4 minutes ago, Centrist Simon Steele said:

I don't know--I'd say a significant percentage of Americans batted an eye. We felt powerless to do anything about it.

Just now, TrackerNeil said:

As far as I could tell, most Americans didn't care very much. Those that even knew what was happening might have clucked their tongues, but did they vote on it? Given how well Republicans did at the ballot box that year, I feel safe saying that the blockading of the Supreme Court by Mitch McConnell did not exactly move a lot of voters. Sad, but true.

Both these statements of true. But it doesn't matter what most Americans think or care about, because they always vote the same way. All that matters is what the people who actually swing between the parties, or swing between voting and not-voting, think or care about.

And it seems safe to say that Republican norm-breaking only matters to the ~45% of the electorate that always votes Democratic. It matters a great deal to many of them, but that doesn't matter.

 

[Zorral]

22 minutes ago, Kaligator said:

Immigration policies that continue to look just like Trump's 

Now this, this really disturbs me/us.  His whole posture toward this, toward Cuba and the Caribbean and South America, is pure tRump, and just wicked.

I don't keep banging on about here or elsewheres because one is all too aware that he will not even think of dealing with this -- if at all -- until pandemic at least is under better control.  Or -- whatever.  We do keep doing what we can to keep awareness of this evil shyte alive among people who care and want to do something about it, and keep trying to.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Something Else: The Election That Was Stolen.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/07/opinion/supreme-court-polls-abortion-bush-gore.html

Quote

 

.... In the ensuing weeks, with the court in a monthlong winter recess, justices on both sides of Bush v. Gore fanned out across the world to reassure the public, and perhaps themselves, that normal life at the Supreme Court would resume.

“If you can’t disagree without hating each other, you better find another profession,” Justice Antonin Scalia told a group of law students in San Diego on Jan. 23. The justice, whose side had prevailed, assured the students: “Trust me, there was no bitterness at the court after the decision was made.”

Speaking at the University of Kansas on Jan. 25, Justice Stephen Breyer, one of the four dissenters, insisted that the decision had reflected neither ideology nor politics, but simply competing legal views. “When you’re talking about the judicial system, what you’re talking about is people carrying on a discourse completely informed and civilized,” he said. He quoted a statement that Justice Clarence Thomas, a member of the Bush v. Gore majority, made the day after the ruling: “I can’t remember an instance in conference when anyone has raised their voice in anger.”

And in Melbourne, Australia, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, whom the decision had infuriated, adopted a measured tone in addressing a law school audience. “Whatever final judgment awaits Bush v. Gore in the annals of history,” she said, “I am certain that the good work and good faith of the U.S. federal judiciary as a whole will continue to sustain public confidence at a level never beyond repair.” ....

 

A reason RBG didn't retire? Having been through this?

[Zorral]

Long piece on pollster David Shor's analysis on Dems and upcoming elections.  Not a word though about gerrymandering and all the other voter repression laws and actions.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/08/opinion/democrats-david-shor-education-polarization.html

"David Shor Is Telling Democrats What They Don’t Want to Hear"

This is the concluding paragraph of this long opinion piece:

Quote

....This, to me, is the most important part of Shor’s argument: He is right to insist that the Democratic Party is an institution that is composed, at the top, of a narrow group of people and that is afflicted by many of their blind spots. Whether he is right about what those blind spots are or his critics are right that he is adding some of his own is a secondary concern. For the Democratic Party to chart any course out of the peril it faces, it must first accept that in the minds of most Americans, it is a party, a singular entity. And before that party can shape what voters think, it must find a way to see itself clearly and act collectively. ....

Weak sauce, barely even gruel.

 

[DMC]

1 hour ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

Have to wonder if that correlates to a general dissatisfaction with the Democrats themselves. Case in point, Virginia governor elections which appear to be pretty close.

That race appears to be narrowing - an Emerson poll a couple days ago had them tied.  And McAuliffe throwing Biden under the bus the other day is not a good sign.  Given the long trend of Virginia voting against the party of the president that was elected the year before (McAuliffe in 2013 is the only exception in the past 40 years), I'd put my money on Youngkin.

[DMC]

On Biden's declining approval, I think the current slide is overwhelmingly due to covid and the economy.  The public's confidence in Biden handling both has been eroding for the past two to three months now.

[Kalbear]

2 hours ago, DMC said:

On Biden's declining approval, I think the current slide is overwhelmingly due to covid and the economy.  The public's confidence in Biden handling both has been eroding for the past two to three months now.

I think it's that, and it's also that there have been basically no 'wins' Biden can even point to. There are no big bills or diplomacy wins. There's no war wins. There's no big anti-terrorism. Every single bit of news is basically bad - war, immigration, trade, supply shortages, inflation, covid, housing, elections, democratic party, etc. 

[DMC]

2 minutes ago, Kaligator said:

I think it's that, and it's also that there have been basically no 'wins' Biden can even point to. There are no big bills or diplomacy wins. There's no war wins. There's no big anti-terrorism. Every single bit of news is basically bad - war, immigration, trade, supply shortages, inflation, covid, housing, elections, democratic party, etc. 

Sure that may be part of it, but I think it's clear covid and the economy will be the controlling factors deciding his presidency - and the midterms.  If they improve (or at least the public's perception of his handling of each improves), then his and the Dems' electoral outlook should similarly improve - even if he doesn't get major legislation passed.  Conversely, if the Dems do pass both bills but the economy and covid continue to be problems, Biden and the Dems will still be in deep electoral trouble. 

[Zorral]

If he'd turned around the Cuba debacle, that would have been a big thing. 

 

[A True Kaniggit]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

If he'd turned around the Cuba debacle, that would have been a big thing. 

 

Nyet. That must’ve been a fairly niche thing. 
 

I go out of my way to try and pay attention, but first I’m hearing of a “Cuban Debacle”.

Majority of Americans have no idea what you are talking about.

No way it would have a meaningful effect on elections, or Biden’s popularity.  
 

Edit: Or are you talking about a specific, localized  election/thing I missed?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Man, fuck the 5th Circuit Court:

Quote

A federal appeals court on Friday night put a temporary hold on a judge's order blocking Texas' six-week abortion ban.

The 5th US Circuit Court of Appeals granted Texas' request for an administrative stay of the order. Texas had filed the request Friday afternoon, after US District Judge Robert Pitman issued a sweeping order earlier in the week blocking the law at the request of the US Justice Department, which had brought a legal challenge last month.

 

On Friday night, the New Orleans-based appellate court also asked for the Justice Department to respond by 5 p.m. local time on Tuesday to a request by Texas that Pitman's order be frozen while its appeal is considered by the 5th Circuit.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/08/politics/texas-abortion-appeal/index.html