Rohanne Webber is Old Nan?

[Egged]

Webber. Spider. Needle work. Old Nan likes to needle.

Old Nan is said to have come to Winterfell to be a wetnurse to a Brandon or Rickard Stark. For Brandon, the timeline is wrong. For Rickard? It’s perfect: Rohanne disappeared in 230, less than a year after giving birth to Jason Lannister. Rickard was born in 230.

Might have been on Duncan’s trail.

[The Wondering Wolf]

 Nan had come to the castle as a wet nurse for a Brandon Stark whose mother had died birthing him. He had been an older brother of Lord Rickard, Bran's grandfather, or perhaps a younger brother, or a brother to Lord Rickard's father. Sometimes Old Nan told it one way and sometimes another. In all the stories the little boy died at three of a summer chill, but Old Nan stayed on at Winterfell with her own children. (A Game of Thrones, Bran IV)

Nan came for a boy named Brandon, and the only one that fits is Willam's son. So the timeline doesn't work for Rohanne being Old Nan.

[Megorova]

At the time when Dunk got together with Nan, Rohanne was still married with Eustace Osgrey. Eustace died several years later, and then Rohanne married with Gerold Lannister, had with him four children, and only then disappeared in 230 AC. And Dunk met Nan in 212.

Old Nan/Alysanne Stark + Duncan the Tall = twins, a boy and a girl

Rohanne Webber + Duncan the Tall = Jenny of Oldstones

Jenny + Duncan the Small = Melisandre

Jenny + Maelys Blackfyre = Serra, Varys (younger brother/valonqar)

When Dunk met Nan, she was one of the Starks (Willam's younger sister). Then she got pregnant, though for some reason she and Dunk didn't married, instead her family sent her away and married her to Franklyn Frey (at least there were clues/hints about this possibility in The Mystery Knight novel). Alysanne gave birth to Dunk's twins. Twins were a "trand" amongst dragonseeds of that time.

Dunk's parents were Daemon I Blackfyre and Daenerys Targaryen. Daemon's firstborn children were twin-boys - Aegon and Aemon. Daenerys had a twin-brother (though he was stillborn). Her mother - Naerys - gave birth to another set of twins in 161 AC. Also there were Aegon II's twins - Jaehaerys and Jaehaera; Rhaegel's Aelor and Aelora; Prince Valarr's twin-sons; Daemon Targaryen's twin-daughters Rhaena and Baela; Maelys Blackfyre's second head is his Siamese twin; Robert Baratheon, who was partially Targaryen, also had a set of twins. Thus Nan and Dunk had a son and a daughter - a set of twins. And because by the time of their birth Alysanne already was married with Franklyn Frey, those children were born at the Twins castle - the seat of House Frey.

Nan's firstborn son was Hodor's paternal grandfather, and her firstborn daughter had at least two daughters, one of which was the mother of the Mountain and the Hound, and the other one was a mother of Meris Cafferen / Wenda the White Fawn from the Kingswood Brotherhood / Brienne Tarth's mother / Pretty Meris from the Windblown sellswords company founded by Tattered Prince (who is possibly a son of Arya Flint and the Wandering Wolf Rodrick Stark - Old Nan's younger brother).

Then, in span of her marriage with Franklyn, Nan gave birth to at least 2 more children. Then Franklyn died (he was significally older than Nan), and because he already had an heir from his previous marriage - his son Addam, Nan was sent away from the Twins together with her children. At that time she recently gave birth to her latest child, and her older brother's first wife - Lyanna Glover, died after giving birth to Brandon. So because the Starks needed a wet-nurse and Nan had no place to live - her family took her back to Winterfell. Though, because she had disgraced them (her relatioship with Dunk), they didn't accepted her back as a family member, merely allowed her to stay there as a wet-nurse and a servant. Over the time those of the Starks that knew her as Alysanne Stark, all died and eventually who she really is was forgotten.

Though at certain point in time one of Dunk's and Nan's children or grandchildren came to him, because Dunk's great-granddaughter - Meris Cafferen, had his shield. For whatever reason, when she migrated from Westeros to Essos, she left that shield at the Tarth' armory, where Brienne saw it when she was a child.

That's Nan's side of the story, and Rohanne (who also briefly was Dunk's woman) became the Ghost of High Heart.

In this scene she was remembering her first kiss with Dunk:

ASOS, Arya VIII

Quote

"A silver stag for your dreams, my lady," Lord Beric said, with solemn courtesy. "Another if you have news for us."

"I cannot eat a silver stag, nor ride one. A skin of wine for my dreams, and for my news a kiss from the great oaf in the yellow cloak." The little woman cackled. "Aye, a sloppy kiss, a bit of tongue. It has been too long, too long. His mouth will taste of lemons, and mine of bones. I am too old."

The Sworn Sword

Quote

Dunk grabbed her braid and pulled her face to his. It was awkward with the crutch and the difference in their heights. He almost fell before he got his lips on hers. He kissed her hard. One of her hands went around his neck, and one around his back. He learned more about kissing in a moment than he had ever known from watching. But when they finally broke apart, he drew his dagger. "I know what I want to remember you by, m'lady."

Rohanne / the Red Widow - Varys / the Spider (Rohanne's grandson).

Rohanne is approximately 10 years older than Nan. And Rohanne was part of the Lannister-household for at least 10 more years after Dunk met Nan, so Nan and Rohanne are definitely not the same person.

[Egged]

5 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

 Nan had come to the castle as a wet nurse for a Brandon Stark whose mother had died birthing him. He had been an older brother of Lord Rickard, Bran's grandfather, or perhaps a younger brother, or a brother to Lord Rickard's father. Sometimes Old Nan told it one way and sometimes another. In all the stories the little boy died at three of a summer chill, but Old Nan stayed on at Winterfell with her own children. (A Game of Thrones, Bran IV)

Nan came for a boy named Brandon, and the only one that fits is Willam's son. So the timeline doesn't work for Rohanne being Old Nan.

What I have is:

Quote

He had been an older brother of Lord Rickard, Bran's grandfather, or perhaps a younger brother, or a brother to Lord Rickard's father.

Rickard had no brother. Bastard? Ok so it's tenuous, but it can work. He might have had a bastard brother, and so a wet nurse was needed. Maybe Duncan fathered a child there, and Rohanne became its wetnurse.

[The Wondering Wolf]

25 minutes ago, Egged said:

Rickard had no brother. Bastard? Ok so it's tenuous, but it can work. He might have had a bastard brother, and so a wet nurse was needed. Maybe Duncan fathered a child there, and Rohanne became its wetnurse.

That's unnecessarily complicated. Nan gives several options who this Brandon Stark was, and one of the options fits in very well with the Stark family tree. No reason to invent some obscure bastard brother nobody has ever mentioned in the text.

[Megorova]

2 hours ago, Egged said:

What I have is:

Quote

He had been an older brother of Lord Rickard, Bran's grandfather, or perhaps a younger brother, or a brother to Lord Rickard's father.

Lord Rickard's father was Edwyle - son of Willam Stark and Melantha Blackwood. Though before Willam had married with Melantha, he had another wife - Lyanna Glover <- this is little Brandon's mother, she died after giving birth to him, and that's why the Starks needed a wet-nurse for him. Not for some nonexistent bastard. That Brandon who was a brother to Lord Rickard's father (Edwyle), was Willam Stark's son/Alysanne Stark's nephew.

Have you read "The Sworn Sword"? Or about what happened to Rohanne in the following years? The thing is - her wherabouts between 210 and 230 are KNOWN. What isn't known is what happened to her after 230, when she left her home. At that time she was 44-turning 45 years old. Why would the Starks hire such an old woman to be their wet-nurse? They easily could have found (and did found) someone younger and not a total stranger to their family.

[SocratesSnow]

Old Nan is the Frey girl who wedded Lord Butterwell at the Mystery Knight Tourney (Second BF Rebellion). 

 

 

 

[Lord Lannister]

I have this crazy theory that Old Nan is just an old lady named Nan who likes to tell stories.

[Mourning Star]

I would be absolutely astounded if Nan didn't have Targaryen blood, almost inconceivable at this point.

No hair or eye color given, smells dragons in the comet, and never calls Bran "prince".

My best guess is Rhae, Egg's sister.

Her needles always going click click click are why the three-eyed crow's voice is described as "sharp as swords"... Old Nan was the three-eyed crow all along, book it.

[Mister Smikes]

1 hour ago, Lord Lannister said:

I have this crazy theory that Old Nan is just an old lady named Nan who likes to tell stories.

Yeah.  If there's a twist, it is that some of the stories are true.

[Egged]

8 hours ago, Mister Smikes said:

Yeah.  If there's a twist, it is that some of the stories are true.

 

8 hours ago, Mourning Star said:

I would be absolutely astounded if Nan didn't have Targaryen blood, almost inconceivable at this point.

No hair or eye color given, smells dragons in the comet, and never calls Bran "prince".

My best guess is Rhae, Egg's sister.

Her needles always going click click click are why the three-eyed crow's voice is described as "sharp as swords"... Old Nan was the three-eyed crow all along, book it.

The stories are true because Bran is making them true based on what he was told. The Others really were just marginalized free folk, until Bran made them as in Old Nan's stories.

Quote

As angry as he was, his father could not help but laugh. "You're not my son," he told Bran when they fetched him down, "you're a squirrel. So be it. If you must climb, then climb, but try not to let your mother see you."

Bran did his best, although he did not think he ever really fooled her. Since his father would not forbid it, she turned to others. Old Nan told him a story about a bad little boy who climbed too high and was struck down by lightning, and how afterward the crows came to peck out his eyes. Bran was not impressed. There were crows' nests atop the broken tower, where no one ever went but him, and sometimes he filled his pockets with corn before he climbed up there and the crows ate it right out of his hand. None of them had ever shown the slightest bit of interest in pecking out his eyes.

Ned lets Bran "climb" (figuratively going up the path of learning magic). Bran sought to hide from his mother, but he could not be rid of her; his mother will turn to "others" to stop him.

Struck by lightning to be taken down from up high. Lightning, like Beric Dondarrion, who gave light back to Catelyn.

Catelyn will "ground" Bran.

[Mourning Star]

10 hours ago, Egged said:

The stories are true because Bran is making them true based on what he was told. The Others really were just marginalized free folk, until Bran made them as in Old Nan's stories.

haha no.

the stories were before him too.

10 hours ago, Egged said:

Ned lets Bran "climb" (figuratively going up the path of learning magic). Bran sought to hide from his mother, but he could not be rid of her; his mother will turn to "others" to stop him.

Struck by lightning to be taken down from up high. Lightning, like Beric Dondarrion, who gave light back to Catelyn.

Catelyn will "ground" Bran.

This is some wild interpretation, thanks for the chuckle!

[The hairy bear]

Rohanne Webber was 25 years old in 211. That means that if she was alive at the time of the books, she'd be around 114. Of maester Aemon (who died at 101), it was said that he was the oldest man in Westeros. There's little doubt that Rohanne is already dead, but if she wasn't, she would be a decrepit woman unable to perform any task on a household.

20 hours ago, Mourning Star said:

My best guess is Rhae, Egg's sister.

Rhae would be in his nineties. While we don't have a definite age, I'd say that Old Nan can't be that old. She is active in taking care of the younger Stark kids, to the point that Rickon punches her when she tries to sing him to sleep. She is also active in trying to heal the wounds inflicted to Cat by the catspaw, and is forced to act as a servant to the Ironborn during Theon's occupation. All this suggests that she would be in her eighties at most.

[Mourning Star]

15 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

Rohanne Webber was 25 years old in 211. That means that if she was alive at the time of the books, she'd be around 114. Of maester Aemon (who died at 101), it was said that he was the oldest man in Westeros. There's little doubt that Rohanne is already dead, but if she wasn't, she would be a decrepit woman unable to perform any task on a household.

Details my friend... more is said of Nan than Aemon.

She was the oldest person in Winterfell for certain, maybe the oldest person in the Seven Kingdoms.

He was the oldest man in Westeros,

But, while we are at it, the Ghost of High Heart would seem older than both of them. Walder Frey meanwhile is only ten years younger than Aemon.

Quote

Rhae would be in his nineties. While we don't have a definite age, I'd say that Old Nan can't be that old. She is active in taking care of the younger Stark kids, to the point that Rickon punches her when she tries to sing him to sleep. She is also active in trying to heal the wounds inflicted to Cat by the catspaw, and is forced to act as a servant to the Ironborn during Theon's occupation. All this suggests that she would be in her eighties at most.

Rhae is a her... and Nan is almost certainly at least that old. How could she possibly not be?

I'm not sure what evidence you are trying to use here, but this is a story were there are a number of very old characters possibly past the point of realism... also there is magic.

[Jaenara Belarys]

No. Rohanne Webber is a sack a grey bones by now. Old Nan is simply an old lady who likes knitting and telling stories. 

[Megorova]

My guess is that when Nan and Dunk met in The She-Wolves of Winterfell novel (211-212 AC), she was same age as Dunk was in The Hedge Knight novel - 14 turning 15. So her year of birth is 196, and thus in 300 AC she will turn 104 years old. There's Bloodraven, who will be 125 years old in 300 AC; Shiera Seastar/Quaithe, who is 116 (she was born in 184 AC); Rohanne Webber (the Ghost of High Heart), who is 114 or 115 years old. Though all three of them are still alive thanks to blood magic. So Old Nan is the oldest characters in ASOIAF who has lived past 100 without usage of any magic to prolong her lifespan.

22 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

All this suggests that she would be in her eighties at most.

She's Hodor's GREAT-GRANDMOTHER, so she can't be 80-90.

Hodor is close in age to Ned, thus Hodor's father was close in age to Rickard, his grandfather was close in age to Edwyle, and thus his great-grandmother is close in age to Willam Stark - Ned's great-grandfather. And that's what I'm saying - Old Nan is Willam Stark's younger sister - Alysanne Stark (Anne - Nan), and she was a wet-nurse of the Brandon who was Willam's firstborn child.

There was Rhaegar, who was from approximately same generation as Ned. And Rhaegar's great-grandparents were Aegon V and Betha Blackwood. So Nan, who is a great-grandmother of a guy who is from approximately same generation as Ned and Rhaegar, is of approximately same age as the great-grandparents of those two. 

Aegon V was born in 200 AC. If he was still alive now, then he would have been 100 years old. And it's likely that Egg's wife Betha Blackwood was a sister of Melantha Blackwood - a girl that became Willam Stark's second wife and Ned Stark's great-grandmother. So Nan's age is around 100, not 80-90.

"Lord Beron gathered swords to throw Lord Dagon Greyjoy's ironmen back into the sea and made common cause with the Lord of Casterly Rock for it.^[6][4] He was mortally wounded in the ensuing clash, and House Stark faced a crisis of succession as his wife and four other recent Stark widows made claim for their own children.^[7][8] Despite the crisis, his eldest son, Donnor, succeeded him as Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North.^[5]"

This Beron is Lord Stark who was dying (or recently died) when Dunk and Egg came to Winterfell. He was the father of Willam and Alysanne <- their older brother Donnor was chosen then to become the next Lord of Winterfell. At that time Will and Nan were teenagers, close in age to Dunk (who was ~16-17 years old at the time when he came to Winterfell), and their younger brother Rodrik (who later became the Wandering Wolf) at that time was close in age to Egg. Dunk and Egg helped the Starks during later stages of that crisis caused by the Ironborn. That's why Bran in one of his visions saw Alysanne Stark kissing a knight as tall as Hodor - Dunk, who is Hodor's great-grandfather and was Nan's paramour.

And then Egg and maybe also Rodrik both named their sons - Duncan, so there was Duncan the Small and maybe also Duncan Stark - son of the Wandering Wolf and Arya Flint. So this second Duncan is GRRM's homage to the main character of The Highlander TV-series - Duncan MacLeod from a highlander's clan (Arya Flint was a member of a mountain clan). And GRRM knows the actor who played the role of Duncan MacLeod - Adrian Paul.

Also Adrian Paul voiced two of GRRM's audio books, and he filmed in a TV-show on which GRRM was a script-writter - "Paul spent time in the theatre, appearing in numerous plays, and has stated that these, along with an early television appearance on Beauty and the Beast (1987), helped to shape his acting abilities. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beauty_and_the_Beast_(1987_TV_series)

"

Written by	Alex Gansa Howard Gordon David Peckinpah George R. R. Martin

"

See?

So the son of the Wandering Wolf Rodrik Stark is Duncan Stark or Tattered Prince - the founder of Windblown. And Pretty Meris is Duncan the Tall's great-granddaughter, Hodor's second cousin, Brienne's mother, and a grand-niece of the Tattered Prince who is Old Nan's nephew. In his books GRRM creates multiple connections that weave each of the characters into the Big Picture.

There should be some indications in Nan's interactions with Theon or with the other Ironborn that hint that Nan has a grudge against Ironborn, because they killed her father - Beron Stark. Was there anything like that?

[The hairy bear]

22 hours ago, Mourning Star said:

She was the oldest person in Winterfell for certain, maybe the oldest person in the Seven Kingdoms.

He was the oldest man in Westeros,

The first quote is said by an eight year old who hasn't seen much beyond Winterfell's walls. I wouldn't treat it as gospel truth.

22 hours ago, Mourning Star said:

and Nan is almost certainly at least that old. How could she possibly not be?

I'm not sure what evidence you are trying to use here

I'm trying to assess Old Nan's age without any preconception. Without attempting to push his age in any direction in order to fit a given theory. And my humble conclusion, given that she is given relatively hard and demanding tasks, and also she is entrusted with significant responsibilities, is that she can't be as old as some of you pretend her to be.

22 hours ago, Mourning Star said:

but this is a story were there are a number of very old characters possibly past the point of realism... also there is magic.

I'm not sure which characters act unrealistically for his age 'past the point of realism'. Maester Aemon's lucid head is exceptional, but not impossible, and we never see him performing any physical effort.

There may be magic, but it wouldn't used by an frail old woman from a remote castle involved in some absurdly complicated conspiracy to influence the Stark children. I can buy that Quaithe, Melisandre or the Ghost of High Heart use magic to prolong their lives. But not Old Nan.

30 minutes ago, Megorova said:

She's Hodor's GREAT-GRANDMOTHER, so she can't be 80-90.

Hodor is close in age to Ned

Where does that come from??

I may be missing something, but as I see it Hodor has to be much younger than Ned. He is called a "boy" both in the text and in appendixes.

If Hodor is 18 (and he could be younger) and his female ancestors gave birth at 18 (and it could be before), then Old Nan would only have to be 72. So there's plenty of margin.

30 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Rohanne Webber (the Ghost of High Heart), who is 114 or 115 years old.

The Ghost of High Heart was so short that she was confused with a dwarf. Also, the wife of the Lord of Casterly Rock that had mysteriously disappeared just a decade before would have been immediately recognized at court. Rohanne can't be the Ghost of High Heart. Or Old Nan. Or anyone alive by 300 AC.

[Daenerysthegreat]

23 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

The first quote is said by an eight year old who hasn't seen much beyond Winterfell's walls. I wouldn't treat it as gospel truth.

 

It amazes me. Grrm purposefully puts those things in order to give a biased perspective but people pick things out of three four words and turn them into theories that will change the entire series

[Mourning Star]

14 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

The first quote is said by an eight year old who hasn't seen much beyond Winterfell's walls. I wouldn't treat it as gospel truth.

None of it is the gospel truth, Sam’s musings nor Bran’s. But they are what we have to work with as readers.

14 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

I'm trying to assess Old Nan's age without any preconception.
 

It doesn’t seem that way.

14 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

Without attempting to push his age in any direction in order to fit a given theory. And my humble conclusion, given that she is given relatively hard and demanding tasks, and also she is entrusted with significant responsibilities, is that she can't be as old as some of you pretend her to be.

That is a preconceived notion which you are using to make assumptions about her age.

What Brandon are you suggesting was a baby when she came to Winterfell?

14 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

I'm not sure which characters act unrealistically for his age 'past the point of realism'. Maester Aemon's lucid head is exceptional, but not impossible, and we never see him performing any physical effort.

The Ghost of High Heart, Melisandre, the Undying, Walder Frey, Bloodraven…. Really?

14 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

There may be magic, but it wouldn't used by an frail old woman from a remote castle involved in some absurdly complicated conspiracy to influence the Stark children. I can buy that Quaithe, Melisandre or the Ghost of High Heart use magic to prolong their lives. But not Old Nan.

And that is another preconceived notion you are applying to the story.

14 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

Where does that come from??

It was hard to believe that he was the same blood as Old Nan. Bran wondered if he would shrivel up as small as his great-grandmother when he was old. It did not seem likely, even if Hodor lived to be a thousand.

14 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

I may be missing something, but as I see it Hodor has to be much younger than Ned. He is called a "boy" both in the text and in appendixes.

We don’t know how old Hodor is, but if his father died in Robert’s Rebellion he has to be at least as old as Jon/Rob. But calling him a stable boy, or even boy, doesn’t really indicate age. I’m inclined to agree that he seems younger than Ned, but it’s hard to know.

[Lord Lannister]

4 hours ago, Megorova said:

She's Hodor's GREAT-GRANDMOTHER, so she can't be 80-90.

One thing to keep in mind is it's common for a 15 year old to be having kids in this setting. So you could conceivably cover four generations in that timespan. Really we're given insufficient information to make an exact determination. Unless we're really taking Bran's bitter thought that she's the oldest lady in Westeros as gospel truth.