House of the Dragon Teaser Released

[The Dragon Demands]

Spy photos from Caceres seem to have confirmed suspected casting of the Cargyll twins: 

hey, what’s the correct pronunciation of “Cargyll”?

”Car-guile” or “Car-gill?”

 

[Jaenara Belarys]

I've always pronounced it car-gill. 

[Lord Varys]

21 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

But with what we know of her nature and how Westeros views its women, it'd be hard to imagine Helaena conducting a battle in the skies. And plus, I've always interpretted Helaena as being a sort of reserve, or simply held back to defend KL. Or at least, that was the plan. 

Still, the Blacks viewed her as a combatant and Criston Cole even urged Aemond to help free Helaena so that she could be united with Dreamfyre and use her in the war.

20 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Black Velaryons. We’re thinking that Corlys’ mother may have been a Summer Islander.

That's one idea. The other is that the Velaryons simply are black Valyrians.

10 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

From what I understand, if everyone is stupid, then noone is stupid. George had to kill the dragons and had to show how destructive the Dance was as well. He did that, we read that. I won't be aaying how stupid everyone was for not thoing this or that instead os something else. I would try to reasom why things happened the way they did. I said why in this comment. 

George didn't care much about dragon logistics and there is little indication he ever properly considered what it means for an army or general in a civil war to have a dragonrider at their disposal.

The only dragon which is used effectively is Tessarion. The numerical advantage in dragons the Blacks had should have been used in them cowing every castle, town, or city with Green leanings ... not to mention that it is actually very hard to swallow that the folks of Oldtowners and people of Lannisport allowed their lords seriously consider siding with the factions with only four dragons. I mean, they must have known if push came to shove their cities and castles would burn.

That the dragonriders turned against each other was a lucky accident. Smarter folks would have evaded fights between dragons only to target dragonless armies and defenseless castles/cities. All you need for that is to know which houses declare for the other side and/or dare taking up arms against you. Then you can have your dragonriders threaten them ... and destroy them if they don't back down.

A sane person's answer to Luke's murder wouldn't have been Blood and Cheese. It would have been the destruction of Storm's End in another Harrenhal-like inferno. That would have sent the message to everybody what it would cost to withhold the Iron Throne from Rhaenyra. And what Aegon II and his ilk could expect happening to them if they do not back down.

And there is just no chance that the Hightowers or the Lannisters or any lord of Westeros for that matter would felt the need to actually attack Rhaenyra's people or support Aegon II if they actually realized the cost of doing that.

The idea that Daemon sits nearly the entire first year of the war at Harrenhal rather than actually moving Caraxes around and visiting castles, towns, and cities who have declared for Aegon II is also pretty weird. There was no point to that. He was mobile and could fly around. Once he had installed Black loyalists at Harrenhal there was no need for him to stay there for months. The threat in the Reach could have been dealt with months before the Hightowers actually became a danger ... by either visiting Oldtown with dragons or by flying down to team up with the Black loyalist armies in the Reach attacking the Hightowers.

[Jaenara Belarys]

3 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Still, the Blacks viewed her as a combatant and Criston Cole even urged Aemond to help free Helaena so that she could be united with Dreamfyre and use her in the war.

 

Point conceded. 

3 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

That's one idea. The other is that the Velaryons simply are black Valyrians.

 

Which doesn't match with what we know of Valyrians....

[The Wondering Wolf]

1 hour ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Which doesn't match with what we know of Valyrians....

Black Velaryons don't match with what we know of Velaryons either, but the series is free to do as it likes. I don't think the Velaryon's were mentioned in GoT at all, and even the lore videos do not mention any Velaryons (besides Corlys, Laena, Laenor and Rhaenyra's sons) or their special relationship with the Targaryens. And since the violett eyes have already been taken away from the Valyrian look, I don't think there are any strong hints about the typical Valyrian book look in the series.

[StarksInTheNorth]

On 10/12/2021 at 5:29 PM, The Dragon Demands said:

While we've seen certain scenes in spy photos to try to parse out the timeline (filming Laena's funeral), they're now redundant with the first teaser trailer, which established that they're starting AT LEAST as early as the Tourney for the ascension of Viserys I (moved to Horn Hill? ) and as late as Aemond claiming Vhagar (trailer shows Alicent angry with the dagger, we've seen spy photos of Aemond on the beach of Driftmark) - also seems to be a spy photo of Aemma Arryn's funeral (which is after the tourney).

1) what makes you think that the tourney is for the ascension of Viserys?

2) is there any indication Aemma will get screen time or do you think itwill it be like Jon Arryn, who drove events but was off screen?

[StarksInTheNorth]

Was digging through the wiki and I'm thinking the Tourney at Horn Hill is not related to Viserys' Ascension. First, Aemma was still alive then but it looks like Rhaenyra and Alicent are present. It's also notable that the women are centered, without the present man who is theoretically being celebrated. During her teens, around 112 AC book time, Rhaenyra did a tour that included a stop at Horn Hill. I would wonder if the tourney isn't some kind of tour for Rhaenyra to see the country as her father's heir, potentially to be courted and choose a husband. Since Alicent was aged down or Rhaenyra was aged up, it could be a really interesting character moments if they were friendly and gossiping about who they fancied, but later it turned out it was Alicent and Viserys. Maybe Rhaenyra even originally thinks Alicent was into Daemon, tries to set them up, and that explains the rumors that they slept together.??

[Jaenara Belarys]

21 minutes ago, StarksInTheNorth said:

During her teens, around 112 AC book time, Rhaenyra did a tour that included a stop at Horn Hill. I would wonder if the tourney isn't some kind of tour for Rhaenyra to see the country as her father's heir, potentially to be courted and choose a husband.

Maybe, but you'd have to age up Rhaenyra in order for Aemma to still be alive. Not that that would be bad, things like Velaryon vs Aemond would make far more sense with aged up kids. 

23 minutes ago, StarksInTheNorth said:

Maybe Rhaenyra even originally thinks Alicent was into Daemon, tries to set them up, and that explains the rumors that they slept together.??

That is actually a pretty good idea, it could add to Alicent hating Rhaenyra....

[The Bard of Banefort]

The one problem with having young Alicent be the same age as young Rhaenyra is that it’s going to be weird to see an actual teen marry King Viserys. If it was an adult playing a teen, it would be less awkward. (Plus adult Alicent looks pretty damn young, to be honest). 

[The Dragon Demands]

12 hours ago, StarksInTheNorth said:

1) what makes you think that the tourney is for the ascension of Viserys?

2) is there any indication Aemma will get screen time or do you think itwill it be like Jon Arryn, who drove events but was off screen?

Because Criston Cole is still using House Cole heraldry and isn't wearing Kingsguard armor.

We're pretty sure they filmed Aemma Arrryn's funeral. As the tourney happens before that, she'll probably have a few scenes.

[Jaenara Belarys]

10 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

The one problem with having young Alicent be the same age as young Rhaenyra is that it’s going to be weird to see an actual teen marry King Viserys. If it was an adult playing a teen, it would be less awkward. (Plus adult Alicent looks pretty damn young, to be honest). 

I suppose that's true, but it also adds bit of depth to the feud than simply wanting to be the first lady of the realm or sitting on the Iron Throne. 

[Lord Varys]

13 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

Black Velaryons don't match with what we know of Velaryons either, but the series is free to do as it likes. I don't think the Velaryon's were mentioned in GoT at all, and even the lore videos do not mention any Velaryons (besides Corlys, Laena, Laenor and Rhaenyra's sons) or their special relationship with the Targaryens. And since the violett eyes have already been taken away from the Valyrian look, I don't think there are any strong hints about the typical Valyrian book look in the series.

It is not so much about the looks as such, but the degree of kinship between the Targaryens and the Velaryons. The incestuous marriage policy of House Targaryen is part of the GoT canon (although it is rarely mentioned considering there are just three living Targaryens in the show), and the entire point of the Velaryons within the framework of the narrative is to provide the Targaryens with closely related cousins to marry if there are no sisters available.

Meaning Velaryons who look distinctly different than the Targaryens will have to be quite a different house than the Velaryons from the books. If the Velaryons are black as a house - which I'd take as a given on the basis of the casting so far as well as the specific 'Valyrian dreadlock wigs' the Velaryons got - then Valaena Velaryon and Alyssa Velaryon are not likely to have been the founding mothers of the Targaryen dynasty. Neither can Boremund and Jocelyn Baratheon have a Velaryon mother, unless Borros Baratheon and his daughters will be played by black actors, too.

In the books, the marriage between Corlys Velaryon and Princess Rhaenys Targaryen, second in line to the Iron Throne, is a very natural thing to do. The Velaryons are nearly as closely related to the Targaryens than their own Targaryen cousins. And especially Corlys is as prestigious - or even more prestigious than the most famous Targaryen princes.

But the fair skin of Viserys I, Daemon, and Rhaenyra implies that neither of them as a black Velaryons ancestor, especially not in a setting where incestuous marriages are the rule.

This would imply that Corlys and Rhaenys are not exactly close cousins, nor are the Velaryons in the show a virtual cadet branch of House Targaryen. That would be a rather significant change.

[Lord Varys]

1 hour ago, The Dragon Demands said:

Because Criston Cole is still using House Cole heraldry and isn't wearing Kingsguard armor.

We're pretty sure they filmed Aemma Arrryn's funeral. As the tourney happens before that, she'll probably have a few scenes.

It seems clear that the tourney at Horn Hill is going to have the same function as the Maidenpool tourney ... but we should not assume that it celebrates the ascension of Viserys I. We don't know in what year it is going to take place in the show nor how much time has passed between Viserys' ascension and that tourney.

I'd rather assume Viserys and Rhaenyra are on a progress through the Reach and the Tarlys entertain them with a tourney when they come to Horn Hill.

[Lord Varys]

As for Queen Aemma:

I expect them sort of reference the beginning of Rome with the death of Queen Aemma. In Rome, the beginning of the quarrel between Pompey and Caesar is the death of Caesar's daughter Iulia, Pompey's wife, in childbirth.

HoD should give us a pregnant Queen Aemma and a king, princess, and court looking forward to a male heir (and future husband) for Rhaenyra to resolve the Daemon problem. Only to have then Aemma die in childbirth, triggering a succession of unpleasant events - 'the heir for a day' line, Daemon's exile, Viserys I's angry insistence that now Rhaenyra would be his heir, the grand ceremony, the search for a new queen, and the king's romance with Alicent Hightower.

Without the death of Queen Aemma as catalyst this whole story would just feel pretty weird. If Aemma were already dead when the show began, Rhaenyra already should be the Heir Apparent, Daemon should no longer view himself as the heir, etc.

[The Bard of Banefort]

Maybe the tourney is part of Alicent’s first royal progress? 

[Sotan]

On 10/12/2021 at 7:34 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

A thought just came to me about Rhaenyra and Criston.

I have long favored the theory that the two became enemies after Rhaenyra rejected him, because unfortunately that’s something that happens to women quite a bit. But then something occurred to me: what if Rhaenyra turned down Criston’s proposal. . . but not his love? Maybe Rhaenyra refused to give up her claim for him, but instead told him that they could remain lovers in secret, even that Criston might father her children. This is, after all, what Cersei and Jaime did—and what Rhaenyra and Harwin ultimately did. Only instead of agreeing to it, Criston was offended and infuriated, and felt like Rhaenyra was using him. This could be a way to make Criston a bit more sympathetic, because at this point he’s basically just a spurned suitor hellbent on destroying her life.

He's still an incel. 

[The Bard of Banefort]

39 minutes ago, Sotan said:

He's still an incel. 

Oh, I agree. I just think this version makes him slightly more sympathetic. It’s still pathetic that he spent the rest of his life trying to destroy her though.