Did euron kill balon using a faceless man?

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

30 minutes ago, Mister Smikes said:

I'm fine with all of this.  But you fail to suggest an alternate interpretation of the Ghost of High Heart's vision.

But perhaps the standard interpretation is just a poor fit anyway.  Why would the faceless assassin who killed Balon be wearing a drowned crow?

One alternate interpretation that occurred to me is that the "bridge that swayed and swung" is the rickety bridge to the Isle of Ravens.  The man without a face is Fake Pate a/k/a the Alchemist.  And the drowned crow he is wearing represents Sam, signifying he has adopted Sam's face and likeness.

This is nice.

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

18 minutes ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

Now he can't assasinate balon himself it's too risky. An assasin always has the risks of being killed or worse caught in the process. 

Yeah, but he's not 'an assassin', he's Euron Greyjoy who grew up at Pike and would know better than anyone he could have hired the lay of the castle and any secrets it may contain.  He's also arrogant enough that avoiding or mitigating risk would be out of character. It's a simple job, sneak into his own home and knock his brother off a bridge in a storm. Unless there was more to it than we've seen - or Euron had  to be somewhere else when it happened I just can't see why he would have paid the price.

The official line is that Balon fell off the bridge in a storm.  Famously Euron tells Rodrick "I am the storm, my lord"

[Mister Smikes]

3 hours ago, WhatAnArtist! said:

It's not meant to be literal. The assassin is "wearing a drowned crow" because the assassin was hired by Crow's Eye, who was "drowned" (i.e. Ironborn).

Well, its hard to tell how it is "meant" without reading GRRM's mind.  And in this case it is hard to match the words with the meaning you propose without playing loose games of association.  Which, of course, does not necessarily mean you are wrong.  But It does not necessarily make you right either.  If you have to stretch the words that far to reach the meaning, then you can stretch them in other directions as well.  Which leaves us with all sort of other possible "non-literal" meanings, including the possible alternative I just proposed.

[Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers]

6 hours ago, CamiloRP said:

Yes, is an assumption, like it was an assumption in Euron's mind that he could get the support from the Iron Born, I mean, he could, but he could be as certain of it as he would be of Balon's support. In fact, I think there was something magical happening in the Kingsmoot, based on the parallels between it and the LC election and the whole weird thing with the magical horn. Euron had little chance to gain the support of the IB, he's an exile and the IB had all but lost at this point, why would they support his plans? it makes more sense for them to support Asha's view. But Balon wanted war, and he wanted to win, why would he reject Euron's proposal if it meant a solution to his problems? 

I feel like Euron admits to killing Balon in TWOW. Doesn’t he? Also, Balon was an obstacle to the iron born. He was a vain and proud man who harbored a lot of hatred for the North which led to him invading the North rather than simply staying out of the war or attacking richer, more prosperous lands like the Reach and Westerlands.

[WhatAnArtist!]

9 hours ago, Mister Smikes said:

Well, its hard to tell how it is "meant" without reading GRRM's mind

Obviously, but one can make informed assumptions based on the available text, and weigh up what is the most likely based on that.

 

9 hours ago, Mister Smikes said:

And in this case it is hard to match the words with the meaning you propose without playing loose games of association

 

9 hours ago, Mister Smikes said:

If you have to stretch the words that far to reach the meaning, then you can stretch them in other directions as well.

I don't believe they're much of a stretch at all. Martin has used prophetic imagery that has come true in the books, and specifically about dead kings at that (e.g. Robb's death at the Red Wedding). It's not a stretch at all that Euron had Balon killed, when we look at all the hints and circumstantial "evidence":

• Euron is extremely ambitious and power-hungry, and views the ironborn as the most convenient tools for his purposes
• Euron has no love nor loyalty for any of his family, be they brother or nephew or niece 
• Euron has spent years traveling around Essos, where the Faceless Men are located
• Euron at one point had a dragon egg, which he could have sold to hire a Faceless Man
• Euron returned to the Iron Islands shortly after Balon's death despite having been gone for years and being who-knows-where
• Melisandre cast three leeches into the fire and named three kings; all of them died shortly afterwards in A Storm of Swords in violent manners
• And finally [Winds of Winter spoiler]:
  Spoiler

  Euron admits to Aeron that he had Balon killed

 

I think the evidence - though almost all of it is circumstantial - is almost overwhelming in pointing to Euron as the one behind Balon's death. No other explanation has nearly as much evidence supporting it.

[Mister Smikes]

24 minutes ago, WhatAnArtist! said:

Obviously, but since none of us can do that, I suppose that means there should be no discussion allowed on any theories that haven't been confirmed by Martin.

Not what I was saying at all.  All that I am saying is that the standard fan interpretation is not such a good fit that it can be regarded as certain, and that other interpretations are possible.  I was not trying to dictate that one interpretation was necessarily the correct one.

24 minutes ago, WhatAnArtist! said:

I don't believe they're much of a stretch at all.

Again, I was not saying it was too much of a stretch to be true.  I was merely saying it was too much of a stretch to be regarded as certain, or to rule out alternate interpretations.  If words can be stretched (and I don't say they can't) they can be stretched in multiple ways.  Which is why prophesies are treacherous.

 

24 minutes ago, WhatAnArtist! said:

I think the evidence - though almost all of it is circumstantial - is almost overwhelming in pointing to Euron as the one behind Balon's death. 

That's a different question.  I was discussing whether a specific phrase of the ghost of high heart could be taken as indicating that a faceless man killed Balon Greyjoy.

[Rondo]

Perhaps he did use a faceless man.  Or maybe Euron is a skinchanger and used one of Balon's servants to do it .  A sorcerer duel between Euron and Bran would be awesome.  Mutual destruction for both families.

[Firefae]

So we learn that Balon fell off one of the bridges at Pyke, fell into the sea and washed up two days later:

Quote

"You know how Pyke's built on a headland, and part on rocks and islands off the shore, with bridges between? The way I heard it in Lordsport, there was a blow coming in from the west, rain and thunder, and old King Balon was crossing one of them bridges when the wind got hold of it and just tore the thing to pieces. He washed up two days later, all bloated and broken. Crabs ate his eyes, I hear."

Later Euron tells Vic this:

Quote

Victarion shuddered. "Show me this dragon's egg."

"I threw it in the sea during one of my dark moods." Euron gave a shrug. 

 

So basically, Euron paid the Faceless Men a dragon egg to assassinate Balon. Remember that the Faceless Men are incridebly costly, especially when the target is so high profile. They are also interested in dragons because of their history, so of course they would see a dragon egg as a fitting payment.

[Daenerysthegreat]

1 minute ago, Firefae said:

So we learn that Balon fell off one of the bridges at Pyke, fell into the sea and washed up two days later:

Later Euron tells Vic this:

 

So basically, Euron paid the Faceless Men a dragon egg to assassinate Balon. Remember that the Faceless Men are incridebly costly, especially when the target is so high profile. They are also interested in dragons because of their history, so of course they would see a dragon egg as a fitting payment.

But the main issue is that while the faceless man may kill balon they require an extremely high price. I don't think 1 dragon egg is sufficient.

[Firefae]

2 minutes ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

But the main issue is that while the faceless man may kill balon they require an extremely high price. I don't think 1 dragon egg is sufficient.

Dragon eggs are incredibly rare. Jorah tells Dany in AGOT that if she sells them she could live as wealthy woman for the rest of her life. And remember the Faceless Men WANT to have a dragon egg, they are out of a way to destroy them. Which is why that faceless man is posing as Pate in Oldtown to get access to the tomes about dragons.

[Daenerysthegreat]

Just now, Firefae said:

Dragon eggs are incredibly rare. Jorah tells Dany in AGOT that if she sells them she could live as wealthy woman for the rest of her life. And remember the Faceless Men WANT to have a dragon egg, they are out of a way to destroy them. Which is why that faceless man is posing as Pate in Oldtown to get access to the tomes about dragons.

They are not that rare, if they were rare how did illyrio get them and why on earth did he give them to khal drogo. They are enough to make a man wealthy that's  true

As I said before a dragon egg may be worth killing an merchant but never a king. 

[WhatAnArtist!]

7 minutes ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

if they were rare how did illyrio get them and why on earth did he give them to khal drogo

He gave them to Dany as a personal wedding gift, not to Drogo. Drogo shows no interest in the eggs whatsoever.

[Daenerysthegreat]

1 minute ago, WhatAnArtist! said:

He gave them to Dany as a personal wedding gift, not to Drogo. Drogo shows no interest in the eggs whatsoever.

The two are the same, dany's bride gifts were khal drogo's everything in the khalsar was khal drogo's

[WhatAnArtist!]

1 minute ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

The two are the same, dany's bride gifts were khal drogo's everything in the khalsar was khal drogo's

Obviously Illyrio didn't think so, otherwise he would have given them to Drogo and not Dany.

[Daenerysthegreat]

Just now, WhatAnArtist! said:

Obviously Illyrio didn't think so, otherwise he would have given them to Drogo and not Dany.

For formality's sake they were given to dany because of her targaryen blood. 

[EggBlue]

11 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

They are not that rare, if they were rare how did illyrio get them and why on earth did he give them to khal drogo. They are enough to make a man wealthy that's  true

As I said before a dragon egg may be worth killing an merchant but never a king. 

first of all he gave them to Dany and no they are not the same. although everything in the khalasar belongs to the khal, Illyrio who isn't part of a khalasar doesn't see that like that. therefore, if there is any question of why Illyrio gave away dragon eggs it's related to Dany .not Drogo.

however, I personally don't think there's going to be anything out of that question either. they were the bridal gifts Illyrio gave dany because they were considered beautiful stones and it was a fitting gift for a girl with dragon heritage. I think Martin wanted Dany to have them but not from her childhood ( since then there would be a question of what changed that she suddenly felt them and connected with them) and he didn't have time for Dany to find them. so he just put them in her lap using rich Illyrio Mopatis.

[Egged]

Imagine if Jaqeen finds a way to use magic to hatch a shadow-dragon to take down Euron. Ooops. Euron outdone by his own payment.