The Expanse #6: better to go down swinging than rolling over

[Consigliere]

14 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Not according to the authors. Didn't Ty say something about 'a pause'? 

According to Amazon, the show is cancelled.

From what I recall, the authors had said that they prefer to think of it as a pause rather than cancellation because one never knows what can happen in the future. I also recall them saying that the studio (Alcon Television Group) remains committed to the IP so perhaps the authors are still optimistic that the final act can be adapted sometime down the line.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Consigliere

[Spockydog]

19 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

According to Amazon, the show is cancelled.

From what I recall, the authors had said that they prefer to think of it as a pause rather than cancellation because one never knows what can happen in the future.

Or perhaps nobody really wants to admit to themselves that their tv show got cancelled twice....

Regardless of how they try and spin things, for many fans invested in the books, hoping to see the complete story adapted in glorious, shiny, 4K UHD, this has to go down as a crushing disappointment.

Also, you have to feel for all those fans who campaigned so hard after Syfy dropped the show. When Amazon stepped in they must have been delighted. I know I was. But then they dropped it after two seasons. GRRRRR! 

Anyway, as I said, it's all deeply unsatisfactory. How many people would bother sitting down to watch adaptations of The Fellowship of the Ring and The Two Towers if they knew they would never get to see Return of the King?

Edited October 11, 2021 by Spockydog

[Consigliere]

It's a massive disappointment, no doubt. But if Amazon was only giving them one season (and a shortened one at that) then there was no chance of properly adapting the last 3 books. To use your LotR analogy, that'd be like New Line Cinema telling Peter Jackson that he's only getting 30 minutes of screen time to adapt Return of the King.

[Spockydog]

36 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

It's a massive disappointment, no doubt. But if Amazon was only giving them one season (and a shortened one at that) then there was no chance of properly adapting the last 3 books. To use your LotR analogy, that'd be like New Line Cinema telling Peter Jackson that he's only getting 30 minutes of screen time to adapt Return of the King.

Yeah, but did they know that at the time?

Nobody said back then, 'Hooray, we've been picked up by Amazon. But it's only for another two seasons.' Literally nobody said that.

I was looking forward to another four, five, or six seasons.

Anyway, whichever analogy we choose to use, we are basically in a situation where the final act of the story, the entire point of the thing, will not be adapted. That really sucks.

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Spockydog

[Kalbear]

My understanding was that when they pitched this to Amazon to get picked up, they did so with the idea that it would be able to be wrapped in 6 seasons total. That was always the target, they said.

And that kind of makes sense given what we know of the books and the jump between books 6 and 7.

[Corvinus85]

1 hour ago, Consigliere said:

It's a massive disappointment, no doubt. But if Amazon was only giving them one season (and a shortened one at that) then there was no chance of properly adapting the last 3 books. To use your LotR analogy, that'd be like New Line Cinema telling Peter Jackson that he's only getting 30 minutes of screen time to adapt Return of the King.

I recently read an article about Jackson's initial struggles with LOTR and the studios involved. He was initially contracted to work with Miramax, yep that company. He pitched a two film idea first, which the rapist was fine with, but apparently his brother wasn't, who wanted only one movie. They were going to gut a lot of stuff, including Helm's Deep and kill one of the Hobbits. Jackson really didn't want that, but he was in danger of getting sued by Miramax for the initial down payment they made. Eventually he found New Line, who not only agreed to pay Weinstein off to go away, but also suggest 3 movies is the only proper way to do it, which made Jackson ecstatic.

Anyway, that's my thread derail of the day.

[Caligula_K3]

If the showrunners knew that they were only getting six seasons, then that makes many of the recent adaptation decisions very... questionable. Of course, there's no way you can adapt all nine books in six seasons. But if you know as of the end of Season 3 that you're only getting three more seasons, you don't try to adapt all nine books, and you don't follow books 4-5 as closely as the show did. You focus on a few plotlines. And one of those absolutely has to be the protomolecule plotline. I agree with @Spockydog that it's going to be a very unsatisfactory ending if all of that is ignored.

Unless the showrunners know something I don't, which is possible, it's also very naive to hope that this cancellation is a pause. Actors and crew get other gigs. This must be an expensive show relative to its audience. The Expanse isn't such a cult hit that we can expect a Twin Peaks like revival in 20 years.

[Kalbear]

7 minutes ago, Caligula_K3 said:

If the showrunners knew that they were only getting six seasons, then that makes many of the recent adaptation decisions very... questionable. Of course, there's no way you can adapt all nine books in six seasons. But if you know as of the end of Season 3 that you're only getting three more seasons, you don't try to adapt all nine books, and you don't follow books 4-5 as closely as the show did. You focus on a few plotlines. And one of those absolutely has to be the protomolecule plotline. I agree with @Spockydog that it's going to be a very unsatisfactory ending if all of that is ignored.

Unless the showrunners know something I don't, which is possible, it's also very naive to hope that this cancellation is a pause. Actors and crew get other gigs. This must be an expensive show relative to its audience. The Expanse isn't such a cult hit that we can expect a Twin Peaks like revival in 20 years.

So they didn't know at the end of season 3, but they did know as part of the pitch - and the goal was to make it a satisfying (at least on some level) conclusion. I'm pretty worried too! But that's okay.

My suspicion is that it'll be fine to do the last 3 books with an entirely different plot and actors and go something of a different direction. But I also recognize that while Expanse is really pretty and I love it, it apparently isn't doing super well. 

[Werthead]

Reportedly the show was one of the ten biggest streaming drama series in the world for Season 4. How Season 5 did is unclear, but I don't think it was a massive disaster. However, it is possible that The Expanse might be getting great viewing figures but not driving fresh subscribers, as compared to something like Stranger Things, Bridgerton and The Witcher, which all drive people to sub to Netflix and then re-sub later on when the next season drops, so they can show how those shows make them money.

It appears that when SyFy cancelled the show and they talked to Amazon about it, they decided on a fixed idea of three seasons to cover Books 4-6, with the possibility of a different approach to doing Books 7-9 later on. What that is and how realistic that is, is unclear. We'll find out more after the Season 6 finale. I am wondering if they're thinking of doing a trilogy of bigger-budget movies on Amazon to tell that story, but they didn't want to commit to that up front.

People are also forgetting they adapted Abaddon's Gate in 7 episodes, IIRC, and that was absolutely fine. If anything, I felt they had too many episodes for Cibola Burn and probably a couple too many for Nemesis Games, so adapting Babylon's Ashes in 6 is fine by me.

[3CityApache]

18 hours ago, Werthead said:

People are also forgetting they adapted Abaddon's Gate in 7 episodes, IIRC, and that was absolutely fine. If anything, I felt they had too many episodes for Cibola Burn and probably a couple too many for Nemesis Games, so adapting Babylon's Ashes in 6 is fine by me.

Provided season six is indeed only adapting Babylon's Ashes. But if so, I keep wondering why would they show what they showed in season five epilogue. It simply doesn't make sense. And if they somehow plan to wrap up the whole thing, then it is an entirely different matter, undoable in one season no matter the number of episodes.

[Corvinus85]

What disappoints me right now is that the season 5 soundtrack still hasn't been released. I've no idea what's going on.

[IFR]

19 hours ago, Werthead said:

People are also forgetting they adapted Abaddon's Gate in 7 episodes, IIRC, and that was absolutely fine. If anything, I felt they had too many episodes for Cibola Burn and probably a couple too many for Nemesis Games, so adapting Babylon's Ashes in 6 is fine by me.

Yes, and I think season 3 was one of the best. Season 5 suffered a little from having too many episodes, in my opinion. It would have been much better to have season 5 be 10-13 episodes comprising books 5 and 6.

I don't know what to expect of this final season. It could work as a "pause" while the showrunners try to shop for another company to fund the conclusion, but it could go incredibly awry too. I hope they don't try to wrap everything up. 6 episodes is not enough for it to be done well, I think.

Edited October 12, 2021 by IFR

[Spockydog]

30 minutes ago, 3CityApache said:

Provided season six is indeed only adapting Babylon's Ashes. But if so, I keep wondering why would they show what they showed in season five epilogue. It simply doesn't make sense. And if they somehow plan to wrap up the whole thing, then it is an entirely different matter, undoable in one season no matter the number of episodes.

This. If they knew they were never going to get to tell the story of the Laconians, why bother with this?

You're absolutely right. None of this makes any sense. At all. Unless, you know, people are telling porkies.

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by Spockydog

[Caligula_K3]

Yeah, if this weren't the last season and it was covering only Babylon's Ashes, I'd be fine with six episodes. I agree that season 3 was the best, partially because it was willing to speed through Book 3. Seasons 4 and 5, meanwhile, have both dragged, especially in last season's "Naomi's stuck on a spaceship" arc.

But because this season should be wrapping up the show, six episodes is a bit harder to swallow. I'm sure I'll enjoy the season as a standalone. But my only hope for the show getting wrapped up in a satisfactory way is if Jeff Bezos pops up at the end of episode 6 and says "surprise! The Expanse is cancelled, but there's going to be three movies to wrap it up!"

[sifth]

2 hours ago, Caligula_K3 said:

Yeah, if this weren't the last season and it was covering only Babylon's Ashes, I'd be fine with six episodes. I agree that season 3 was the best, partially because it was willing to speed through Book 3. Seasons 4 and 5, meanwhile, have both dragged, especially in last season's "Naomi's stuck on a spaceship" arc.

But because this season should be wrapping up the show, six episodes is a bit harder to swallow. I'm sure I'll enjoy the season as a standalone. But my only hope for the show getting wrapped up in a satisfactory way is if Jeff Bezos pops up at the end of episode 6 and says "surprise! The Expanse is cancelled, but there's going to be three movies to wrap it up!"

Not only that, season 3 made some changes, that actually improved the source material, IMO. Ashford being being the big one. He's such a cool and complex character on the show, compared to the one note villain he is in the book.

[Caligula_K3]

20 hours ago, sifth said:

Not only that, season 3 made some changes, that actually improved the source material, IMO. Ashford being being the big one. He's such a cool and complex character on the show, compared to the one note villain he is in the book.

Absolutely. I really, really, really did not like Book 3, but I thought the show did a fantastic job adapting it by giving nearly all the characters more depth and complexity.

[3CityApache]

I just read a rumor that they just decided to throw in Strange Dogs into sixth season, but without touching any material from books 7-8. That would actually make a lot of sense. Strange Dogs takes place more or less at the same time as the fight with Marco Inaros, so no time jump is needed. It gives us a glimpse of Laconia, but without having to resolve anything, just leaves an open door for possible continuation.

[Corvinus85]

3 minutes ago, 3CityApache said:

I just read a rumor that they just decided to throw in Strange Dogs into sixth season, but without touching any material from books 7-8. That would actually make a lot of sense. Strange Dogs takes place more or less at the same time as the fight with Marco Inaros, so no time jump is needed. It gives us a glimpse of Laconia, but without having to resolve anything, just leaves an open door for possible continuation.

There is a shot in the trailer that confirms this.

[Werthead]

I don't think they would set up and show Laconia unless they have a plan in mind in how to deal with it, so it'll be interesting to see how that happens:

1. The Expanse ends in Season 6, but at the end of Episode 6 they announce a spin-off/sequel series, The Expanse: Crusade or whatever, which will adapt Books 7-9 and maybe flesh out those elements to fill up a 2-4 season-long show of maybe shorter episodes.
2. The Expanse ends and they segue into three big(ish) budget Amazon movies, each one telling the story of the last three books. Each movie gets a lot of marketing to try and boost the appeal of the whole series.
3. There is absolutely no plan in mind, they're just ending The Expanse with Season 6 having just adapted the six books semi-faithfully and are basically hoping that something turns up, allowing them to cover the rest at a later date.

One thing I do believe is that the plan for 3 more seasons on Amazon was set when Amazon renewed the show, and they made the decision then to build to that across the entire series, regardless if the series got fifty million viewers.

[Corvinus85]

3 hours ago, Werthead said:

I don't think they would set up and show Laconia unless they have a plan in mind in how to deal with it, so it'll be interesting to see how that happens:

1. The Expanse ends in Season 6, but at the end of Episode 6 they announce a spin-off/sequel series, The Expanse: Crusade or whatever, which will adapt Books 7-9 and maybe flesh out those elements to fill up a 2-4 season-long show of maybe shorter episodes.
2. The Expanse ends and they segue into three big(ish) budget Amazon movies, each one telling the story of the last three books. Each movie gets a lot of marketing to try and boost the appeal of the whole series.
3. There is absolutely no plan in mind, they're just ending The Expanse with Season 6 having just adapted the six books semi-faithfully and are basically hoping that something turns up, allowing them to cover the rest at a later date.

One thing I do believe is that the plan for 3 more seasons on Amazon was set when Amazon renewed the show, and they made the decision then to build to that across the entire series, regardless if the series got fifty million viewers.

4. Bezos waits 30 years, then resumes the show, filming it on the Moon for added realism.