Wow, I never noticed that. Vol. 19

[Tucu]

41 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

This could be relavent.

 

Kingsguard, but not only are they not described as shadows, but we are specifically told that they aren't shadows. Though not white, the grey wraiths that were Ned's companions once are the shadows here.

 

A Stark commanding shadows :-)

Later in one of Jamie's dreams Rhaegar and the KG are Jamie's icy shades/shadows/ghosts

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He saw them too. They were armored all in snow, it seemed to him, and ribbons of mist swirled back from their shoulders. The visors of their helms were closed, but Jaime Lannister did not need to look upon their faces to know them.

Five had been his brothers. Oswell Whent and Jon Darry. Lewyn Martell, a prince of Dorne. The White Bull, Gerold Hightower. Ser Arthur Dayne, Sword of the Morning. And beside them, crowned in mist and grief with his long hair streaming behind him, rode Rhaegar Targaryen, Prince of Dragonstone and rightful heir to the Iron Throne.<...>

The shades dismounted from their ghostly horses. When they drew their longswords, it made not a sound.<...>

Prince Rhaegar burned with a cold light, now white, now red, now dark. “I left my wife and children in your hands.<...>

“Do you believe in ghosts, Maester?” he asked Qyburn.

[Corvo the Crow]

 

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The Other slid forward on silent feet. In its hand was a longsword like none that Will had ever seen. No human metal had gone into the forging of that blade. It was alive with moonlight, translucent, a shard of crystal so thin that it seemed almost to vanish when seen edge-on. There was a faint blue shimmer to the thing, a ghost-light that played around its edges, and somehow Will knew it was sharper than any razor.

"And now it begins," said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.

It had been years since his last vigil. And I was younger then, a boy of fifteen years. He had worn no armor then, only a plain white tunic. The sept where he'd spent the night was not a third as large as any of the Great Sept's seven transepts. Jaime had laid his sword across the Warrior's knees, piled his armor at his feet, and knelt upon the rough stone floor before the altar. When dawn came his knees were raw and bloody. "All knights must bleed, Jaime," Ser Arthur Dayne had said, when he saw. "Blood is the seal of our devotion." With dawn he tapped him on the shoulder; the pale blade was so sharp that even that light touch cut through Jaime's tunic, so he bled anew. He never felt it. A boy knelt; a knight rose. The Young Lion, not the Kingslayer.

The sword glowed red and yellow and orange, alive with light. Jon had seen the show before … but not like this, never before like this. Lightbringer was the sun made steel. When Stannis raised the blade above his head, men had to turn their heads or cover their eyes. Horses shied, and one threw his rider. The blaze in the fire pit seemed to shrink before this storm of light, like a small dog cowering before a larger one. The Wall itself turned red and pink and orange, as waves of color danced across the ice. Is this the power of king's blood?

"Westeros has but one king," said Stannis. His voice rang harsh, with none of Melisandre's music. "With this sword I defend my subjects and destroy those who menace them. Bend the knee, and I promise you food, land, and justice. Kneel and live. Or go and die. The choice is yours." He slipped Lightbringer into its scabbard, and the world darkened once again, as if the sun had gone behind a cloud. "Open the gates."

 

These are all the instances of swords described as being alive with light. Only three times in the series that a sword is described as being alive with light. First one is the Other's sword, the second, is Ser Arthur Dayne's sword, the Dawn and the last, Stannis' sword, the Lightbringer. The first two are pale, where as Lightbringer isn't. Other's blade is "made of no human metal" and Dawn too could be considered as made from no human metal but not the Lightbringer. We also get to see how sharp the first two are, but we never see how sharp Lightbringer is, or at least I couldn't find it.

 

 

 

 

[Corvo the Crow]

19 minutes ago, Tucu said:

A Stark commanding shadows :-)

Later in one of Jamie's dreams Rhaegar and the KG are Jamie's icy shades/shadows/ghosts

Hang on I need to wear my tinfoil hat...

Ned's shadows are gray wraiths... Black + White = Gray 

Jon will command both the NW and the Other's!!!

Joke aside, I don't know what to think about Jaime's snowy shadows.

[Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe]

15 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

the round tower

I Missed that

[Corvo the Crow]

I think I may have posted this before, but no harm in posting again.

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Tyrion wondered where the metal for this one had come from. A few master armorers could rework old Valyrian steel, but the secrets of its making had been lost when the Doom came to old Valyria. "The colors are strange," he commented as he turned the blade in the sunlight. Most Valyrian steel was a grey so dark it looked almost black, as was true here as well. But blended into the folds was a red as deep as the grey. The two colors lapped over one another without ever touching, each ripple distinct, like waves of night and blood upon some steely shore. "How did you get this patterning? I've never seen anything like it."

"Nor I, my lord," said the armorer. "I confess, these colors were not what I intended, and I do not know that I could duplicate them. Your lord father had asked for the crimson of your House, and it was that color I set out to infuse into the metal. But Valyrian steel is stubborn. These old swords remember, it is said, and they do not change easily. I worked half a hundred spells and brightened the red time and time again, but always the color would darken, as if the blade was drinking the sun from it. And some folds would not take the red at all, as you can see. If my lords of Lannister are displeased, I will of course try again, as many times as you should require, but—"

 

This is Ice, Valyrian steel sword of Stark's reforged.

 

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"The deserter died bravely," Robb said. He was big and broad and growing every day, with his mother's coloring, the fair skin, red-brown hair, and blue eyes of the Tullys of Riverrun. "He had courage, at the least."

"No," Jon Snow said quietly. "It was not courage. This one was dead of fear. You could see it in his eyes, Stark." Jon's eyes were a grey so dark they seemed almost black, but there was little they did not see. He was of an age with Robb, but they did not look alike. Jon was slender where Robb was muscular, dark where Robb was fair, graceful and quick where his half brother was strong and fast.

Robb was not impressed. "The Others take his eyes," he swore. "He died well. Race you to the bridge?"

And this is Jon Snow.

[Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe]

On 10/11/2021 at 3:18 PM, Hugorfonics said:

but one last flutist in the gallery was blowing a dirge.

Made me see something I’ve been looking for. Ty.

One flute will serve only to unstop your ears and dissolve the caul from off your eyes, so that you may hear and see the truths that will be laid before you."

The drums were pounding, pounding, pounding, and her head with them. Pipes wailed and flutes trilled from the musicians' gallery at the foot of the hall; fiddles screeched, horns blew, the skins skirled a lively tune, but the drumming drove them all.

skirling always makes me think of a banshee and the pass

Edited December 31, 2021 by Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe

[Corvo the Crow]

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Then phantoms shivered through the murk, images in indigo. Viserys screamed as the molten gold ran down his cheeks and filled his mouth. A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him. Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman's name. . .

I know this is supposed to be Dany's stillborn son but...

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So here's Bittersteel: a winged red stallion on a golden field. Only the horse has big black dragon wings instead of the usual Pegasus-style feathered angel wings, and he's snorting fire.

 

 

 

The Citadel: So Spake Martin - The Great Bastards (westeros.org)

Edited January 1, 2022 by Corvo the Crow

[Corvo the Crow]

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 A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. . . . mother of dragons, bride of fire . . .

Cotter Pyke?

[LynnS]

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Cotter Pyke?

Spoiler

Aeron Damphair from the Foresaken chapter.

 

[Corvo the Crow]

11 minutes ago, LynnS said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Aeron Damphair from the Foresaken chapter.

 

I really should read those released chapters. I didn't read any of them save the one that was attached to ADWD cause I thought "Soon I'll get to read the full book anyway" but, obviously that didn't happen.

[LynnS]

14 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

I really should read those released chapters. I didn't read any of them save the one that was attached to ADWD cause I thought "Soon I'll get to read the full book anyway" but, obviously that didn't happen.

Sorry, I hope I didn't spoil it. 

[Corvo the Crow]

2 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Sorry, I hope I didn't spoil it. 

At this point, over a decade after last book got released, I don't care how I learn what happens, as long as I get to learn them. GRRM can just say "Stannis loses, Dany dies, Jon becomes a wight" or whatever and I wouldn't even read the books.

Edited January 1, 2022 by Corvo the Crow

[LynnS]

 

[Corvo the Crow]

1 hour ago, LynnS said:

 

Another piece of wisdom from Old Nan. She really does know the truth of a lot of the things.

[Seams]

4 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

So here's Bittersteel: a winged red stallion on a golden field. Only the horse has big black dragon wings instead of the usual Pegasus-style feathered angel wings, and he's snorting fire.

I don't know that it is supposed to be a single person (i.e., Dany's stillborn baby). I think GRRM's point may be that characters are reborn in new bodies from the same family line - a Celtic idea about reincarnation (and similar to other world cultures, I'm sure). 

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"If truth be told, we expected you to do just as you did." Mormont tried a plum, spit out the pit. "I ordered a watch kept over you. You were seen leaving. If your brothers had not fetched you back, you would have been taken along the way, and not by friends. Unless you have a horse with wings like a raven. Do you?"

"No." Jon felt like a fool.

We know that Bittersteel escaped to exile in Essos - apparently his possession of a flying horse was effective. Jeor's question to Jon Snow is about a flying horse with raven's wings, however, which seems like a Bloodraven association: the opposite of a Bittersteel flying horse. Jon admits that he does not have a flying horse, however, so the question is apparently moot. 

Mormont also asks Jon Snow about a magic sword:

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"Good," Mormont said. "We've seen the dead come back, you and me, and it's not something I care to see again." He ate the egg in two bites and flicked a bit of shell out from between his teeth. "Your brother is in the field with all the power of the north behind him. Any one of his lords bannermen commands more swords than you'll find in all the Night's Watch. Why do you imagine that they need your help? Are you such a mighty warrior, or do you carry a grumkin in your pocket to magic up your sword?"

Jon had no answer for him. The raven was pecking at an egg, breaking the shell. Pushing his beak through the hole, he pulled out morsels of white and yoke.

We have learned from a Catelyn POV that Maester Luwin hides things in his pockets (reiterated in the Cressen prologue) and Melisandre thinks about the smoke effects she creates with powders hidden in pockets of her robe. Pockets are used to hide coins and keys and, in one memorable moment with Tormund Giantsbane, a roasted chicken. 

Grumkins are associated with swapping babies out of their cribs and substituting another baby in its place - something Jon Snow will do (in a different way) with Mance and Gilly's babies, but also something rumored about fAegon and the Pisswater Prince. 

But the magic sword reference could bring us back again to Bittersteel and Bloodraven, both of whom may have had possession of famous hereditary swords of the Targaryen royal family. In the case of the flying horse, Jon Snow denied that he had such an animal. In this case, Jon does not deny having a grumkin in this pocket. Perhaps he will have a magic sword at some point in the story ...

[LynnS]

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Another piece of wisdom from Old Nan. She really does know the truth of a lot of the things.

I think it's curious that she can smell an increase fire magic something that Quaithe attributes to the return of dragons and apparently so does Old Nan.  The pyromancers also ask Tyrion about just that in relation to the increased potency of their spells.  Scents and smells seem to be a large part of the warg experience and Jon's sense of smell is increased just by proximity to Ghost.  I wonder why Old Nan can smell magic besides the obvious that the blind have other senses that become heightened as a result of blindness.  How does she identify the smell of magic or dragons.  I wonder if she can breach the veil between the worlds or does the weirwood of Winterfell remember the smell of dragons? 

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A Dance with Dragons - The Queensguard

The rest he learned later. Beyond the gates had been a solid press of people. Maddened by the smell of dragon, horses below reared in terror, lashing out with iron-shod hooves. Food stalls and palanquins alike were overturned, men knocked down and trampled. Spears were thrown, crossbows were fired. Some struck home. The dragon twisted violently in the air, wounds smoking, the girl clinging to his back. Then he loosed the fire.

 

 

Edited January 1, 2022 by LynnS

[Corvo the Crow]

1 hour ago, Seams said:

I don't know that it is supposed to be a single person (i.e., Dany's stillborn baby). I think GRRM's point may be that characters are reborn in new bodies from the same family line - a Celtic idea about reincarnation (and similar to other world cultures, I'm sure). 

We know that Bittersteel escaped to exile in Essos - apparently his possession of a flying horse was effective. Jeor's question to Jon Snow is about a flying horse with raven's wings, however, which seems like a Bloodraven association: the opposite of a Bittersteel flying horse. Jon admits that he does not have a flying horse, however, so the question is apparently moot. 

Mormont also asks Jon Snow about a magic sword:

We have learned from a Catelyn POV that Maester Luwin hides things in his pockets (reiterated in the Cressen prologue) and Melisandre thinks about the smoke effects she creates with powders hidden in pockets of her robe. Pockets are used to hide coins and keys and, in one memorable moment with Tormund Giantsbane, a roasted chicken. 

Grumkins are associated with swapping babies out of their cribs and substituting another baby in its place - something Jon Snow will do (in a different way) with Mance and Gilly's babies, but also something rumored about fAegon and the Pisswater Prince. 

But the magic sword reference could bring us back again to Bittersteel and Bloodraven, both of whom may have had possession of famous hereditary swords of the Targaryen royal family. In the case of the flying horse, Jon Snow denied that he had such an animal. In this case, Jon does not deny having a grumkin in this pocket. Perhaps he will have a magic sword at some point in the story ...

This came to my mind

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"No," the old man said. "It must be you. Tell them. The prophecy . . . my brother's dream . . . Lady Melisandre has misread the signs. Stannis . . . Stannis has some of the dragon blood in him, yes. His brothers did as well. Rhaelle, Egg's little girl, she was how they came by it . . . their father's mother . . . she used to call me Uncle Maester when she was a little girl. I remembered that, so I allowed myself to hope . . . perhaps I wanted to . . . we all deceive ourselves, when we want to believe. Melisandre most of all, I think. The sword is wrong, she has to know that . . . light without heat . . . an empty glamor . . . the sword is wrong, and the false light can only lead us deeper into darkness, Sam. Daenerys is our hope. Tell them that, at the Citadel. Make them listen. They must send her a maester. Daenerys must be counseled, taught, protected. For all these years I've lingered, waiting, watching, and now that the day has dawned I am too old. I am dying, Sam." Tears ran from his blind white eyes at that admission. "Death should hold no fear for a man as old as me, but it does. Isn't that silly? It is always dark where I am, so why should I fear the darkness? Yet I cannot help but wonder what will follow, when the last warmth leaves my body. Will I feast forever in the Father's golden hall as the septons say? Will I talk with Egg again, find Dareon whole and happy, hear my sisters singing to their children? What if the horselords have the truth of it? Will I ride through the night sky forever on a stallion made of flame? Or must I return again to this vale of sorrow? Who can say, truly? Who has been beyond the wall of death to see? Only the wights, and we know what they are like. We know."."

So fiery stallion is what the dead, like Rhaego, ride in Essos?  Then perhaps, Dragon winged horse to cross the narrow sea and raven winged one to escape/cross the wall, where the dead ride dead cold stallions. Though not magicked up by a grumkin, here a magic sword is mentioned as well. 

Melisandre magicked it believing Stannis was Azor Ahai.

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Yet now she could not even seem to find her king. I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R'hllor shows me only Snow. "Devan," she called, "a drink." Her throat was raw and parched.

If she were to be convinced that Jon is Azor Ahai, she can give Jon a magical sword too and not just that, but like a grumkin, she swapped babies, or rather caused the babies to be swapped. She is the sword magicking grumkin in Jon's pockets.

[LynnS]

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

She is the sword magicking grumkin in Jon's pockets.

Fascinating.  Grumkins show up in Old Nan's tales With Arya and Sansa as well offering magic of some kind.  Tyrion dismisses snarks and grumkins out of hand, tales to frighten children.  Arya thinks she has met one:

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A Clash of Kings - Arya IX

Jaqen still owed her one death. In Old Nan's stories about men who were given magic wishes by a grumkin, you had to be especially careful with the third wish, because it was the last. Chiswyck and Weese hadn't been very important. The last death has to count, Arya told herself every night when she whispered her names. But now she wondered if that was truly the reason she had hesitated. So long as she could kill with a whisper, Arya need not be afraid of anyone . . . but once she used up the last death, she would only be a mouse again.

 

Grumkin is a combination of the words grum meaning glum and grim and kin. grum-kin.  But what of the Snark?  It's taken from the poem by Lewis Caroll's The Hunting of the Snark, a terrifying creature named after the boojum tree. 

A snark turns out to be a combination of the words shark and snake.  The snark explained:

Snark_Explained_Essay.pdf (snrk.de)

[Corvo the Crow]

11 hours ago, LynnS said:

I think it's curious that she can smell an increase fire magic something that Quaithe attributes to the return of dragons and apparently so does Old Nan.  The pyromancers also ask Tyrion about just that in relation to the increased potency of their spells.  Scents and smells seem to be a large part of the warg experience and Jon's sense of smell is increased just by proximity to Ghost.  I wonder why Old Nan can smell magic besides the obvious that the blind have other senses that become heightened as a result of blindness.  How does she identify the smell of magic or dragons.  I wonder if she can breach the veil between the worlds or does the weirwood of Winterfell remember the smell of dragons? 

 

A weirwood connection was what I thought as well, considering how ancient old nan is, perhaps she developed an affinity to the tree or that affinity may be the reason she was able to grow so old. The really old characters we see have some connection to places of magic, Maester Aemon for example is at the wall which is full of magical wards, Ghost of High Heart is another example.

[Corvo the Crow]

10 hours ago, LynnS said:

Fascinating.  Grumkins show up in Old Nan's tales With Arya and Sansa as well offering magic of some kind.  Tyrion dismisses snarks and grumkins out of hand, tales to frighten children.  Arya thinks she has met one:

Grumkin is a combination of the words grum meaning glum and grim and kin. grum-kin.  But what of the Snark?  It's taken from the poem by Lewis Caroll's The Hunting of the Snark, a terrifying creature named after the boojum tree. 

A snark turns out to be a combination of the words shark and snake.  The snark explained:

Snark_Explained_Essay.pdf (snrk.de)

A snake shark? A sea monster then? Another name for a sea dragon perhaps? Or is the snark itself is not important but is there to make a connection to Lewis Caroll poem?

 

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Sailors from half a hundred nations have glimpsed these great beasts over the centuries, so mayhaps there is some truth behind the tales. Archmaester Margate has suggested that many legends of the north—freezing mists, ice ships, Cannibal Bay, and the like—can be explained as distorted reports of ice-dragon activity. Though an amusing notion, and not without a certain elegance, this remains the purest conjecture. As ice dragons supposedly melt when slain, no actual proof of their existence has ever been found.

Let us put aside such fancies and return to fact. Despite the sinister legends that have grown up around its northernly reaches, the waters of the Shivering Sea teem with life. Hundreds of varieties of fish swim through its depths, including salmon, wolf fish, sand lances, grey skates, lampreys and other eels, whitefish, char, shark, herring, mackerel, and cod. Crabs and lobsters (some of truly monstrous size) are found everywhere along its shores, whilst seals, narwhals, walruses, and sea lions have their rookeries and breeding grounds on and around the countless rocky islands and sea stacks.

Ice dragons notwithstanding, the true kings of these northern waters are the whales. Half a dozen types of these great beasts make their homes in the Shivering Sea, amongst them grey whales, white whales, humpbacks, savage spotted whales with their hunting packs (which many call the wolves of the wild sea), and the mighty leviathans, the oldest and largest of all the living creatures of the earth.

“Ice dragons” exist in shivering sea.

Edited January 2, 2022 by Corvo the Crow